Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121319286#Comment_121319286

The 'hypocrisy' allegation is an easy one to make.

There is a verifiable shortage of housing and a mess has been made of it by successive governments. That deserves to be criticised by any opposition party worth it's salt.

But again we are back to the question...is a housing crisis a charter for ignoring the planning process?

And objections are part of that process, like it or not.

Would you agree that investment in a faster more efficient planning process would be the solution here. If an application is legitimate and proper development what has it to fear?

blanch152

https://www.finegael.ie/sinn-fein-have-objected-to-or-voted-against-almost-12000-dublin-homes-since-2018-burke/

If O'Snodaigh's objections were a once-off some of his defenders could try and paint it as legitimate concern. However, the figures in this press release show the extent of the cynicism employed by Sinn Fein.

There is a pattern to what they do, make the housing crisis worse, no concern for people looking for housing.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320021#Comment_121320021

A FG press release? Really?

Have a look at this, and any independent view would see that it is a cross party issue.

Colm Brophy – Fine Gael TD.

In 2019, Fine Gael TD Colm Brophy objected to a major housing development in Knocklyon, Dublin. According to Mr. Brophy, his constituents emailed him to express their “concern and horror” about the plan to build 590 apartments in the area.

Leo Varadkar – Fine Gael TD.

Fine Gael leader Leo Varadkar objected to an apartment block in his constituency in Dublin Mid-West on the grounds that it was “grossly insensitive to local feelings”. He also stated that the scheme would cause traffic and negatively impact house prices in the area.

Irish politicians who have objected to housing plans. (thisinterestsme.com)

Did someone mention 'hypocrisy'?

I'm not for a second 'defending' O'Snodaigh. I am saying you either want to solve the issue by fixing the planning system and make it more efficient or get into hypocritical finger pointing.

Podge_irl

I have never denied its a cross party issue.

The real question here though, is whether O'Snodaigh's objections fall within SF party guidelines. Because if they do then their housing plans are already doomed to failure. They simply cannot meet them without the type of mid rise brownfield construction he is objecting to here. Unfortunately populism makes for difficult governing when faced with actual tough decisions.

And yes, the planning system is poor and beset by delays. It is a separate though related issue. Many attempts have been made at it, from SDZs to the current planning legislation going through thr oireachtas. Have SF supported any of those?

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320362#Comment_121320362

It will always be someone else's fault.

When Sinn Fein go into government, expect the permanent civil service to be blamed for the government's failings, or the Semi-States, the universities, the HSE and the councils. Nothing is ever the fault of Sinn Fein, they bear no responsibility.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320362#Comment_121320362

You'll have to ask SF those questions.

We see all party reps doing this.

It comes down to, do you want to fix the system that delays legitimate projects or carry on as we are.

Whatever system is agreed it will have to allow for objections.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320428#Comment_121320428

What party have ever borne responsibility?

It's not in any political party's nature to do that and they don't, so it's kind of a moot point.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320428#Comment_121320428

Like it's always someone else fault for Fine Gael. They've been in Government for over a decade and are trying to pin the blame on the housing crisis on SF for objecting to housing developments. You couldn't make it up. 😂

Bobson Dugnutt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320428#Comment_121320428

There’s always a hint of victimhood about SF. The plucky outsiders who can’t get a fair crack of the whip because the establishment hates them.

Which is ironic as they are the political wing of an organisation that created thousands of victims. Shooting, bombing, torturing, raping.

maccored

give them a fair crack at the whip. to be fair, we have no idea how SF would react in government in the republic. Im sure there'll be a 'blah blah blah the assembly' comments, but a handful of parties trying to run a small area with finance dictated by a different country is nothing like what we have here as a government. I'd go as far as to say the likes of the DUP would wipe the floor with either FG or FF so SF are already a grade above the competition. put them in government and if they **** things up, then there'll never be an argument for them again. call their bluff.

If you find yourself disagreeing mainly because you wouldnt want them to succeed then you have to start asking yourself if you care about the general good or only about yourself.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320589#Comment_121320589

Of course the question will have to be asked of SF. It's pertinent to the thread because I don't think they are capable of the kind of compromise and hard choices necessary to form a coalition government.

Efforts are being made to fix the system (and the status ABP was allowed to degrade to is entirely FF/FG's fault) but SF oppose those also. They clearly have no interest in the situation actually being fixed. I know disingenuity is rampant in politics but it still irritates me.

But sure, they'll potentially get a chance to show differently but their lack of anything close to practicality doesn't bode well for stable governance

maccored

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320362#Comment_121320362

You are asking a question, then deciding yourself what the answer would be, and to this you make another assumption - but 'It's pertinent to the thread because I don't think they are capable of the kind of compromise and hard choices necessary to form a coalition government.' One of the main protagonists in the peace process and who helped negotiate and deliver the GFA - they cant make hard choices?

Thats a mad way of thinking about things is it not? Its all what ifs and what abouts.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320982#Comment_121320982

One swallow doesn't make a summer.

They have been barely able to remain in government in the North for longer than ten minutes.

Podge_irl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320982#Comment_121320982

I'm asking a question and surmising based on the actions of those involved. That's also not an assumption, its a judgement.

It is not unique to SF in terms of being in opposition. But to follow through on their promises they are going to have to confront the locals and their councillors who they have backed in their objections almost every time. Maybe they will be a complete about face in power but I have difficulty believing they will.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121321056#Comment_121321056

At least with SF in government here we will see a recognition that the northern experiment in partition has failed, everyone.

Ramasun

I wonder if the latest Hamas v Israel horror show will affect Sinn Fein's popularity.

It's not right that Micheal D Higgins has had more to say about it than a party hoping to lead the next government.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332134#Comment_121332134

Its also not right that SF has had links to Hamas in the past - the party which started the current cycle of violence in the middle east by invading Israel at 3 am on a Saturday morning, killing hundreds, setting babies on fire and beheading them in front of families, and kidnapping hundreds and bringing back to Gaza. The same Hamas who say they would and repeat this as often as they can, given any opportunity, until Israel is wiped off the map / every Israeli is gone.

Not surprising SF linked to Hamas given they also unveiled and gave a commemoration speech at the Statue of Sean Russell in Dublin, the same Sean Russell who collaborated with the Nazis when they were also trying to wipe every Jew off the map.

So Ramsum, in conjunction with the recent books about SF, not surprising they fell in yesterdays poll, as discussed in the papers yesterday.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332764#Comment_121332764

What do Russia, Hamas and the Kinahans have in common?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332134#Comment_121332134

?? Silent?

That’s a strange one. One look at their twitter and the Dàil record would disprove that. Matt Carthy was on Morning Ireland too being asked what their position on it would be and if they would talk to Hamas if in government.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121320921#Comment_121320921

Or you may feel that SF do not represent the best interests or "general good" of the state.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332800#Comment_121332800

Or you intend voting for SF because the incumbents are not representing the best interests or general good of the state.

Isn’t that the norm in democracies and how they function?

Ramasun

Fianna Fail used to be Sinn Fein

Official Sinn Fein became the Workers Party

Provisional Sinn Fein/IRA are supposedly in retirement.

Who are these latest franchisees?

mode1990

Sinn Fein is the rock that this country will perish on , their slick propaganda is up their with the Russians RT TODAY , ,ITS the snowflake generation that doesn't know or chooses not to know about their despicable history , women's rights have come along in our Republic unless you're MARIA CAHILL , or a kid called PAUL QUINN beaten to death in earshot of his friends by animals like "slab Murphy " , who Mary lou described as a " Good Republican " , evil !

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121334132#Comment_121334132

The main governing parties of the state were born out of the same environment and didn’t have the scrutiny and monitoring as SF have had as they morphed into democratic entities.

mode1990

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121334280#Comment_121334280

I think Arthur Griffith , a true icon would be abhorred at what has passed itself off in his name !

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121334375#Comment_121334375

We’ll never know so why worry about it?

The past is another country and as long as FF FG SF etc never go back to what they did then what we have is the normality.

You could pick any figure in history and make the case they would be ‘abhorred’.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121332860#Comment_121332860

Yes, you can vote for whom you want, for whatever reason you want.

mode1990

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121334400#Comment_121334400

Not so ! Original Sinn Fein were decent men & women ! The swing to a hard left Marxist ideology flopped , now they masquerade as a middle of the road party ! What do you think about Maria Cahill & Paul Quinn ????

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121334504#Comment_121334504

Political parties change. Were FG called blueshirts as they flirted with a different ideology and didn’t a FF leader call himself a socialist?

I think the same of Maria Cahill and Paul Quinn as I do of any victim of abuse or violence.

mode1990

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121334656#Comment_121334656

Fair play for being straight regarding Maria & Paul ! MOD has blocked me so I don't know if you'll even receive this message ! Does Mary Lou call the shots or is she still answerable to shadowy men , that's just one thing that scares me & it's probably enough to frighten the electorate away from a Sinn Fein majority government !