Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123198877#Comment_123198877

There are just so many jobs relying on the American multinationals in this country, and the tax they pay. The IMF would be still here only for them.

Previously you were criticising the Irish government because the likes of Apple pay bugger all in taxes here. Now we're dependent on the money these MNCs bring in?

And as the Americans would see it, we do not pull our weight in defence matters either, and freeload on our neighbours.

In constantly insulting, annoying and irritating the Americans (Trump was elected there so when insulting him we are also insulting the electorate there ), we have added insult to injury. To call it an own goal is an understatement.

You're dreaming up scenarios that don't really exist! Exactly how many American voters do you think know of what Harris said and of that number, how many actually care what he said? How many Americans would be aware of our defence setup?

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123199636#Comment_123199636

Apple paid 0.05% tax on their profits for many years but their employees were paying plenty of tax on their income. Let the big multinationals go and the corporate tax take will be slightly dented but the income tax take will get nuked

Most US citizens don't see past their state boundaries, never mind their countries border. Show them a map of Europe and ask them to point out Ireland and most of them won't be able to.

When it comes to Israel/Palestine they probably wouldn't be able to point them out either.

Francis McM

Recent statistics show that foreign-owned multinationals account for 35 per cent of employment and 53 per cent of employment taxes among these corporate employers. And think of the spin-off jobs many of those those companies also provide….from office equipment suppliers to builders to insurance etc

Also, we must remember the following, and I quote:

"When it comes to corporation tax, the foreign MNC sector paid 87 percent of all corporation tax in Ireland in 2022"

https://www.charteredaccountants.ie/Accountancy-Ireland/Articles2/Comment/Latest-News/ireland-and-the-mnc-golden-goose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123203155#Comment_123203155

I agree most Americans would not be able to point out Ireland on a map of Europe. I have met some over there who did not even know where Ireland was. That makes no difference. However Trump and his government are very well aware of where Ireland is and where their US companies pay their tax. Creating jobs and paying tax in Dublin instead of Dallas or Detroit. I think we can also assume they are aware of many of our politicians who, as they see it, have added insult to injury by insulting them. We may try to deny that, but the above is the reality.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123204332#Comment_123204332

…yup, hence why we need to keep increasing taxes on them, cause you cant keep footing the bill!

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123204376#Comment_123204376

Strangle the golden goose...sounds like a SF policy alright.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123204376#Comment_123204376

Who can't keep footing the bill?

What happens if / when Trump and his government put 25% import tariffs on our pharma exports to America as they said they will probably do, in an effort to bring their tax dollars and jobs home to America. And they said they will increase that tariff if it is not enough.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123204397#Comment_123204397

mnc's arent going anywhere folks, even if trump ploughs on with his dreadful tariffs plans, although they might reduce activities here, which potentially could mean some job loses, they aint leaving, as they know, this admin will be done and dusted in a coupe of years, and such businesses have much longer time horizons, i.e. they aint leaving!

…moving such production operations is in fact complex, and can take many years to achieve, also taking into account much different industry standards and regulations between the eu and the us, again, they aint moving!

by not appropriately taxing wealthy entities such as mnc's, the bill falls at your door, and when that doesnt happen, we dont get effective critical services such as effective health care etc, do you really think we re gonna plod along as is!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123204384#Comment_123204384

…again, dont worry, theres not gonna be a sf government anytime soon, maybe never, so the most likely outcome is, very little change, i.e. continually decline in critical services such as health care, housing, infrastructure, etc etc etc, i.e. tis all good folks!

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123204438#Comment_123204438

MNCs pay almost 90% of our Corporation Tax and their employees pay the majority of our Income Tax, PRSI and USC.

How the govt chooses to spend that money is up to the govt, but without the MNCs, there would be no money for any govt to spend.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123204474#Comment_123204474

wrong actually, but partly right, yes most tax revenue is currently coming from the activities of mnc's both directly and indirectly, but some is actually coming from the activities of individuals and from sme sectors, governments also have a very powerful tool called bond markets, that also plays a vital role in money creation for governments, which introduces its own risks and limits….

we have a history of over reliance on tax revenue from a very narrow tax base, and we know what happens there from such, but thankfully, we ve learned our lessons from such past failures!

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123204496#Comment_123204496

It's not wrong. 87% of CT and 55% of income tax is from MNCs.

SMEs and the Bond Markets still have a role to play, but the majority of govt revenue comes from MNCs at the end of the day.

We should broaden the tax base. A third of employees pay no income tax at all.

I guess you are advocating for low earners to start paying income tax?

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123204537#Comment_123204537

again, yes the majority of tax revenue comes from mnc's, both indirectly and directly, and again, we all kow what happens when theres prolonged over reliance on such revenues, again, thankfully, we ve learned our lessons from these past failures!

yes, the tax base should be broadened, in particular towards the accumulation of wealth, including mnc's activities, valuation of assets, such as property and land etc, but again, this wont happen, as its very unlikely an alternative government, such as a sf will ever be elected, i.e. very little is probably ever gonna change, so we re now stuck with serious issues in critical social needs such as housing, health care, infrastructure, etc etc, i.e. ffg supporters have very little to be worrying about, tis all good, relax lads, you seem to be very sensitive about this stuff, your accumulation of wealth, tis fine!

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123204582#Comment_123204582

Taxes brought in like that won't benefit Ireland as the revenue/job making components will either move away or get brought into another jurisdiction. It's one of many reasons why SF's tax plans aren't credible.

BlueSkyDreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123204582#Comment_123204582

So you want those that already pay for everything to pay even more...

You seem to be forgetting we operate in a global environment and jobs and wealth can very quickly be moved out of Ireland.

You cannot tax companies or staff into oblivion and expect them to stay here.

We already have one of the most progressive tax systems in europe.

1 in 3 workers pay zero tax: If what you say is true and we want to see more tax output from SMEs, the lower paid need to start paying tax also.

I do agree we should do more on vacant property tax and land hoarding, but there is a fine line between taxing an acceptable amount and overtaxing a very mobile population.

There is nothing stopping SMEs building up their contributions to our tax take. You seem to be saying that the MNCs would automatically be replaced by SMEs and we would see no impact to our tax take without them. Nothing could be further from the truth.

Again, we have the money for housing and infrastructure, we have one of the strongest economies on the planet, when accounting for our very small population.

The govt needs to do better in providing services, I agree with you, but they could hardly have done much better over the last 20 years in terms of raising tax revenue.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123204332#Comment_123204332

Is it insulting to call Trump names like the ones MM or SH used? I'd have thought he'd be quite happy for another countries leader to call him "dangerous"

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123205581#Comment_123205581

Simon Harris, whose I assume you mean when you write SH, called Trump "an awful gowl", for example.

Even at the worst of Anglo Irish relations, I could not imagine Thatcher for example calling Haughey an awful gowl, or vice versa.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123205815#Comment_123205815

The term gowl is a popular term for somebody who is irritating or annoying. Drumpf is clearly trying to annoy as many people as possible, so is it actually offensive to call him a gowl?

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123206034#Comment_123206034

Just to clarify, if you look up the dictionary, you will find A ghoul (from Arabic: غول, ghūl) is a demon-like being or monstrous humanoid, often associated with graveyards and the consumption of human flesh.

Several years ago some people may indeed have thought that Trump was indeed a "demon-like being or monstrous humanoid, often associated with graveyards and the consumption of human flesh", but was it wise for our Taoiseach then ( Harris ) to insult Trump on the radio like that then? Or indeed other politicians here to denigrate Trump - and hence his electorate - as we know they have done. I'm sure word got back to Trump and his administration.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123207503#Comment_123207503

I'm not disagreeing with any definition of gowl, ghoul, whatever you might have. If I was Donald Drumpf I think I'd be more than happy to be thrown insults like this from foreign powers

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123207541#Comment_123207541

His advisors are telling Trump to put 25% on pharma exports out of Ireland, and to bring tax and jobs home to the USA.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2020/0806/1157756-trump-advisor-ireland-tax-haven/

Who cares how you think Trump may or may not feel if people insult him. Most people do not like to be insulted. With Trump and the American administration, they have the power to do many things. They have long memories.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123207642#Comment_123207642

The real question is how much of our pharma exports go to the USA

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123207978#Comment_123207978

United States Imports from Ireland of Pharmaceutical products was US$50.32 Billion during 2024, according to the United Nations COMTRADE database on international trade.

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-states/imports/ireland/pharmaceutical-products

That enough for you? If S.F. was in power here, could the Palestinians pay for and import 50 billion worth of pharma alone per year? Could SF form a government if Apple and all the other multinationals were not moving their worldwide profits through Ireland, and creating employment here, or would there be widespread fuel and food shortages and rioting on the streets?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123207503#Comment_123207503

Mod: you've made the same point several times in this forum. Resorting to translating something from Arabic is really scraping the barrel. So end it now!

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123208019#Comment_123208019

I could absolutely see the Palestine (and Ukraine) needing pharma imports in the near future. $50bn worth might be a stretch though. The real question is if we don't export to the US does it all just stop or can we export to other countries. The big US companies, pharma, tech or otherwise, are largely based in Ireland for access to the EU market.

The way I see this playing out. Trump adds 25% to EU imports, the EU adds 25% to US imports. If anything the multinationals will want to stay in Ireland because moving back to the US makes their product more expensive in the EU

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123208424#Comment_123208424

You are missing the point. Ireland exports over 50 billion worth of Pharma to the US. We do not import 50 billion worth of pharma from the US. If / when tariffs are applied it will be more feasible for US multinationals to manufacture pharma for the US market in the US, not in Ireland. Yes, pharma manufactured in the EU can and will supply the EU market as it does already.

As regards your point that we could sell Pharma to Palestine instead of the USA, remember that the entire GDP of Palestine in 2023 was only 23 billion. The GDP of the USA in the same period was 28,000 billion. That is over 26% of the entire worlds GDP. So good luck if SF wants to replace exports to the USA with exports to Palestine, get Palestinian companies to create jobs here and move their worldwide profits through Ireland, like Apple for example.

L1011

With Medicaid and Medicare likely to collapse within weeks, the US won't be buying as much pharma off anyone soon enough.

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123210747#Comment_123210747

I do not think the health care system will collapse in the USA, over 22 million people work in it so lets hope not anyway. The USA is not perfect, but good luck in selling health care products in Palestine, Cuba, Venezuala etc.

Anyway, back on topic of the thread, I think if SF were to try to form a government at some stage they would have to show a better awareness of economics and world politics, and matters closer to home I think indicate they have a lot to do too

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/paul-williams-mary-lou-mcdonalds-tribute-to-a-psychopathic-terrorist-proves-once-again-why-sinn-fein-is-not-fit-to-govern/a1704778783.html

Brendan Bendar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123211182#Comment_123211182

And therein lies the big problem the Shinners have…. they can't offload their past and get away with it.

The electorate is not challenged….

harryharry25

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123211859#Comment_123211859

If this Govt runs full term, the same electorate has voted Sinn Fein into the Dail as a bigger party to Fine Gael for a decade

Francis McM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123212098#Comment_123212098

But the fact remains most people do not want a government with SF in it, or there would be a government with SF in it. We saw only last week that Mary Lou McD is not fit to lead the government because, for example, she hailed someone involved in the murder of a young trainee garda and an Army ­private as a Great Patriot. She said he loved his people. Not a word out of her about the innocent people murdered in a sectarian attack on a bar in Belfast, in which the Patriot was involved - he did not love those innocent victims?

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/123210740#Comment_123210740

All of what you say is true, but remember that moving production from Ireland to the USA would not happen overnight and would require FDA approval, which generally takes 7 years. Trump will be gone in 4 so time is very much on our side. Moving the profits that we barely taxed is unlikely to make any major changes

Selling to the Palestine market was somewhat tongue in cheek but if selling to the USA stops then manufacturing for other countries is always an option