Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

astrofool

MLM really being a piece of sh*t towards Ukrainians now:

Mary Lou McDonald 'Mistake' to Give Ukrainians Special Status (extra.ie)

Pandering to or going against their support? It's hard to know these days, SF have been able to be Schrodinger's opposition for a long time now, but the more people look, the more the cat turns out to be dead and rotten.

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121532222#Comment_121532222

Why were candidates from your party losing their deposits wholesale in that time?

You should stop going on with your power swap nonsense ,it just looks silly

Your party was there,practically noone voted for it due to its whacky policies

Dissing that is dissing democracy

We're not in Russia,noone was stuffing fake ballots into boxes

Sinn Féin have pirouette'd and continue to do so

Voters have responded,have enough ? Polls seem to be saying no

Could we have an FF SF rotating Taoiseach next time,it wouldn't surprise me

What will old style Sinn Féin supporters think of that? No idea

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121533814#Comment_121533814

Why were candidates from your party

I don't have a party.

Why would I stop describing what happened in actuality here as a 'power share/swap'.

FF and FG shared power with one another and then when challenged went into C&S arrangement and then a coalition.

Other parties democratically got themselves into a position to challenge them for power.

Point out any lies or mistruths in the above because I cannot see any. I can see why a FFer or FGer might be annoyed to have their history described thus but then you aren't either, so what exactly is your issue?

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121533837#Comment_121533837

You don't have a party ? Pull the other one

You can't be going on about a powerswap when your party existed and provided no alternative

That would be hypocrisy

You also can't be going on about what people voted for as a powerswap,as that would be a contempt by you for democracy and hypocrisy

Your party has basically pirouette'd it self into gaining 28% extra electorate by becoming mainstream and alternative enough for those not getting what they want

Selling what people want is still selling a pup

It works until you win power

After that it's exposed

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121535252#Comment_121535252

You can't be going on about a powerswap

I'm not 'going on' about it. I just stated the actual workings of power since independence and it seems to have rattled your cage.

There is no lie in stating FF and FG swapped power between them since independence because that is what actually happened.

Other parties offer different ways of doing things. I have the freedom to vote for them or not.

That is democracy.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121537040#Comment_121537040

No it is now what happens, it is what the people decide, according to the constitution they enacted and that is not the same thinking at all. If you want to have serious discussion, fine but then you don't get to make up your of version of democracy.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121537064#Comment_121537064

Go on Jim, tell me what did I 'make up' about how democracy has worked here since independence.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121537129#Comment_121537129

Well if that makes you happy in your little version or reality, then we'll just put it down to that and leave you to your own devices.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121537201#Comment_121537201

So you pass on pointing out where I made up a version of democracy. Ok.

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121537040#Comment_121537040

Rubbish

Imagine posting in a politics discussion forum displaying such a contempt for voters as you do there

People chose during that time from the available parties of which yours was one and unelectable

It's also ignorance and a deliberate lie because since the foundation of the state ,the political hatred between the 2 largest parties,well documented in any reputable history or politics book and media couldn't be unknown to you

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121537369#Comment_121537369

People chose during that time from the available parties of which yours was one and unelectable

Where have i said any different? I chose between the two power swapping parties up until 2020 GE.

Anyone with eyes in their head could see that these two swapped power between them. When that option was not available they coalesced together to stay in power.

Was the 'hate' real or just a handy device, who knows, but it was easily put away.

Bobson Dugnutt

Francie, your “I was a floating voter but now I’ve decided to give SF a chance” spiel isn’t fooling anyone. It never has.

You’ve probably cost SF votes to be honest at this stage. It’s all a bit obsessive. 18/7/365.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121537461#Comment_121537461

Doesn't concern me in the slightest. As long as I know what I was, that is all that matters. Plus, I have never asked or promoted voting for SF, that is up to each voter to decide.

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121537452#Comment_121537452

Too many holes in that to even attempt to believe you're being genuine

Your denial of the hatred politically between Fine gael and Fianna Fáil over that time,is just a lie,most political and historical publications,commentators and media write about their animosity ,you could not be unaware

Yet your only evidence they swapped is one replaced another in government at a time when your parties policies and other parties policies made them unelectable in a free and fair democracy you seem to have contempt for

You're just reaching for new depths of zero credibility tbh

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121537514#Comment_121537514

Oh I am sure there was hatred and animosity at the start, FF did arrive to the Dáil with weapons after all. But I don't think it was always a real hatred, it just became a handy distinguisher for them. It was all put away easily when their vote share continued to plummet from the highs of 86%.

I am not sure what other parties performances has to do with those facts.

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121537528#Comment_121537528

Adding 'I don't think' this and I don't think' that doesn't absolve you from the lie,and the contempt of voters you're displaying

But of course,we're to believe you,not history or most political commentators/publications under the sun

Carry on,you're doing a great job...

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121537550#Comment_121537550

Are you not able to think for yourself?

There was hatred and animosity, but eventually there was not enough anymore to stop them acting as one and coalescing.

Seems pretty obvious to me.

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121537560#Comment_121537560

Your premise for power swap dated back to the states foundation,not the current government which by the way is power sharing like all coalition's and a democratic norm

Is your reality ,the holideck of the starship enterprise or do you think routinely pretending what you say in one post not corresponding with the previous, never mind adding up,isn't noticed?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121537614#Comment_121537614

What doesn't add up?

Why not point out stuff instead of ranting about me saying it?

What is wrong or a lie about my 'reality'?

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121537638#Comment_121537638

So I point out what's wrong with and explain multiple times your contempt for how our democracy works and your retort is to ask again what's wrong as if I said nothing?

Let's add not treating a serious discussion forum seriously to my list of observations as to what you're doing

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121537677#Comment_121537677

No you did not explain how pointing out the reality of what happened here since independence was 'contempt' for the voter.

You invented my membership of SF, even though I have pointed out they are not 'my' party. That is a contemptuous claim when you cannot prove it.

I can, by showing who was in power, show that power swapped between FG and FF since independence. Counter that if you can.

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121537273#Comment_121537273

Nope, I just have no motivation to bother engaging in a serious conversation with someone who how does not let the facts intefere with their opinions.

pureza

I did not mention your membership of Sinn Féin

So you can dump the conflation of saying your denial of being a supporter to the heretofore unmentioned membership ,it doesn't exist

If you continue proposing as you do that you don't support Sinn Féin that's beyond laughable,you must have posted gigabytes of evidence of that by now

Nothing wrong with being a supporter

As for power swapping, it didn't swap,it changed

Swap requires agreement

I'd ask you get a dictionary but you already know the two parties never swapped power and that the definition of a swap implies agreement

Up to 2016,80 years you're claiming they swapped , One got more votes in the Dâil for Taoiseach than the other after a dog fight election not a swap

All documented,all fact

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121537766#Comment_121537766

I never said I don't support SF. I have quite openly said I voted for them in 2020 and intend to do so again unless something changes.

They are not 'my' party. No more than FF or FG were not 'my' party when I voted for them.

Maybe you should understand terms better?

The 'swap' did have agreement, they are democrats and if you are a democrat you agree to another taking your place if they are voted in.

for some reason an ordinary word seems to rattle you.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121537734#Comment_121537734

Why so reticent about pointing out where I did as you claimed?

VinLieger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121537931#Comment_121537931

So if SF get into government in the next election using your own definition they have power swapped along with every other party in a country that uses a democratic electoral system.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121538542#Comment_121538542

Yes. If they are the biggest party they are the third party to swap power.

Up to now it has been just 2 swappinf power between them.

This is a very simple word that seems to drive FFers a FGers mad. I have no idea why.

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121538620#Comment_121538620

'Drive Fg'er's and FF'er's mad ?

You're giving away the purpose of your incorrect use of the word there so

That's not genuine debate

Your use of the word is wrong because a swap requires a contract and agreement between parties but you refuse to accept this

Your post above explains why

Pathetic

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121539995#Comment_121539995

I 'swap' my trousers on a daily basis. It requires no agreement or contract with the trousers.

It was you who took issue with a simple word.

One of the reasons I find the swapping of power toxic is that the big two became complacent about it.

FF should have feared extinction after 2008 but you could see they knew they just had to wait it out and in fact FG rehabilitated them, because FG knew they needed them.

pureza

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121540025#Comment_121540025

That's actually untrue again

My recollection is Varadkar after 2020 'relished' the idea of opposition in interviews

Secondly you own both trousers,I presume you have agreement with yourself to change your own trousers

You know I'm right on the definition and you've already got so silly with this nonsense that you've called out your own real reason for the use of the term

My advice, pause,insert hearing aid batteries if that's the problem and re read the following because it's at all times so clear,I'm not going to bother posting it again

It's very simple,no party swapped power,it's well documented how much they hated each other

No alternative party least of all the one you support was electable in the period you say the other 2 swapped

That's an indictment of other parties not the 2 rival parties at the time

But then historical facts don't interest you,your purpose here as you've inadvertently admitted,it's getting that silly with you,is to 'Drive Fg'er's and FF'ers' mad