Sinn Fein and how do they form a government dilemma

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624378#Comment_121624378

For a small open economy, there are few other options.

We could adopt the 1930s FF strategy of self-reliance, echoes of which are in the 2020s Sinn Fein economic playbook, but what are your policy options, and how would you fund them?

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624321#Comment_121624321

No, I do not need to provide anything as I am not making any claims.

It is you guys who are claiming corporate flight and personnel flight is a given.

I have challenged you to show where that has happened. You won't do that because you can't.

Don't try and switch the claim to 'increasing FDI levels'.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624383#Comment_121624383

That is a bit of a straw man to be honest. I don't think anyone is suggesting that we return to any 1930s self-reliance strategy. In fact I specifically said that we are not talking about driving out FDI.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624431#Comment_121624431

Nonsense talk about "rebalancing" the economy means what?

Does it mean that we don't get Intel to build the next generation factory here? Let the jobs go to India instead?

Big questions. Do we take advantage of our position as an internet hub and combine the climate location, the intersection of hardware and build lots more data centres?

If we forego these opportunities, and Sinn Fein, the subject of this thread, want to forego them, then this country starts on a downward path. We could be the Argentina of this century.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624457#Comment_121624457

Does it mean that we don't get Intel to build the next generation factory here?

They already have EVEN with the threat of the Shinners looming.

The position we know is: SF have been hard at work allaying the fears of the last few years scaremongering and one of Irelands senior firms Deloitte seem to be happy with what they said about corporate FDI.

They have some concerns about personal taxation but most people have. We'll see if those concerns transfer into corporate flight or personnel flight. It doesn't seem to have happened elsewhere in the EU zone or outside it.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624457#Comment_121624457

Again extreme examples. FDI is a good thing but when it means that we have ever increasing demands on limited resources, we may need temper the strategy with, for example, the requirement that inward investors contribute to building accommodation, for example, if they are putting a strain on it. This might result in a reduced overall level of FDI but this might be better for the country overall.

I know you will respond by saying this will turn us into Argentina or Venezuela or some other crisis-hit country, but I would suggest to you that that is evidently not the case. Most developed countries don't go to the extreme lengths Ireland does to attract FDI and yet most countries are not Argentina or Venuzeuala or anything like them.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624571#Comment_121624571

Argentina was a rich country in the early twentieth century. It isn't now, because it didn't change and move with the times, continually reinvesting and reinventing itself. By turning our back on FDI and relying on the stock of FDI already built up, we would be doing the same.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624581#Comment_121624581

I don't agree with a lot of Sinn Fein policies but I think, if they do get in, it will be because of one-dimensional policies of the mainstream parties. It is not FDI that is the problem it is that any given strategy that works for the benefit of the country at one point in history, fails to be optimal eventually. Ordinary people start to realize this and make voting decisions based on it.

Another example of this would be GDP growth. We've been pursuing this for decades now to the extent that it has become meaningless and no longer has any relation to the economic welfare of citizens. In fact when other more accurate measures are used, it turns out Ireland is nowhere near the upper levels in the EU and we are gradually falling behind. Other countries are overtaking us.

But GDP growth was at one point the correct thing to pursue, and its growth did contribute massively to the welfare of the country. It is just that a particular strategy at one point eventually stops being the correct strategy.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624571#Comment_121624571

It's basically scaremongering when you see the extremes being touted.

Much harder to show it happening in very similar countries.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624319#Comment_121624319

This has been happening for year, MNC convert to software development etc and the skills and labour are not available. Been part of the Europe union is a great plus here as we can bring in people from all over Europe and Ireland is an attractive country to move to.

No point building houses if you have no people and no jobs for them at the end of the building project. At the moment we are just on catch up

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624581#Comment_121624581

Nobody, not a single one is advocating turning backs to FDI.

This is just totally disingenuous debating.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624707#Comment_121624707

No, as I have pointed out we are actually falling behind relative to Europe in terms of things like basic household consumption per capita.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624708#Comment_121624708

Sinn Fein are, have been for years. Mary Lou was running after the Apple money when she had no idea it wasn't even Ireland if Apple lost the case.

Even high level execs in these companies are the target for Pearse and his "tax the worker" nonsense

Incompetence runs deep in the party as I already posted.

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40935920.html

pureza

Lol,Deloitte and most of those companies don't expect corporate tax to rise if there's a Sinn Féin government

That tit bit shouldn't be cherry picked without reference to their fears and whole of sector fears that are real and omnipresent

They and their like are very concerned on personal taxes rising and Employer taxes making us much less competitive relative to now

But honestly Sinn Féin still have a year to pirouette on those which in their dizzy fashion shouldn't surprise

Being all things to all men at the moment is their priority ,a staple of permanent opposition that in careful what you wish for mode would be found out real quick when the moneys not there,just like the builders aren't

Exciting times ahead for politics watchers in that respect if they get enough votes but nirvana,no

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624754#Comment_121624754

If you google and trawl the web long enough you will find some random statistic that you think is relevant.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624779#Comment_121624779

However if it was that easy would you yourself, by now, not have come up with some facts and figures to back up your claims?

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624799#Comment_121624799

That we should continue to look for investment and hire people?

That just common sense. Fire ahead and spend the day on google but honestly I don't have the time to find some pointless waffle which has no relevance. Maybe if I was part of Sinn Fein supporters club, most of them seem to have an extraordinary amount of time to post online while claiming to be working.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624755#Comment_121624755

Where have SF talked about turning their backs on FDI?

Nowhere.

Have SF talked about a fairer more equitable tax system...yes they have.

You don't have to agree with it, you just have to fess up to the fact they are not advocating turning their backs on FDI.

I'd call that incompetent scaremongering because there isn't a hope you can back it up.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624816#Comment_121624816

But I'm afraid it does have relevance and is probably the reason that Sinn Fein has gone from fringe to threatening to upset the FF/FG dominated political scene that's existed for decades. The basic amount of money people have to play around with hasn't gone up the way they've been told and hasn't gone up relative to other EU countries.

I'm not a supporter of Sinn Fein and I think they will probably make things worse. But the blame for them getting in lies with FF and FG pursuing outdated policies that no longer work for the benefit of the whole country.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624689#Comment_121624689

You haven't put forward a single alternative, nor have you shown that Sinn Fein, the subject of this thread are putting forward any alternative.

Ireland is not investing enough in attracting the new FDI into areas like climate change mitigation, AI etc. That is the evolving policy that the current government is working towards. There isn't a single new idea to bring Ireland forward in anything that Sinn Fein have said.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624943#Comment_121624943

My purpose, however, is not to support Sinn Fein. In fact I have said earlier I don't support them. My purpose is to point out failings in the mainstream parties that are contributing to a possible Sinn Fein win in the next election. The basic message of the mainstream parties is "you've never had it so good" but the reality on the ground is quite different for a lot of people.

In terms of the thread topic and how Sinn Fein can form a government, I think they can do so by highlighting these issues. Show that the currently in terms of what people the money people have to play around is not that great compared to many EU countries and getting worse relative to those same countries.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624985#Comment_121624985

This is being discussed on another thread, about Ireland being not so rich etc. and to be honest, those putting forward your point of view have taken a hammering, because, believe it or not, people in Ireland have never had it so good.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121625016#Comment_121625016

'some' people.

Emblematic

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121625016#Comment_121625016

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121625020#Comment_121625020

Yes I would largely agree with this that it is "some" people. The problem is that the group that is benefiting is getting smaller and smaller and therefore political support for the mainstream parties is reducing. The policies did benefit most of the country at one point but as I have argued, you can't blindly support a narrow set of policies and expect them to work forever for everyone.

FrancieBrady

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121625047#Comment_121625047

A poll recently showed that a large percentage would tolerate a cut in the price of their homes if it helped the housing crisis. It was met here with indignation and patronising 'they know not what they say' derision. These folk just cannot fathom that many people do not want to live in a 'have and not have' society even though they are those that 'have'. Sometimes they are prepared to take a cut if it is ultimately for the good.

I'd love a government minister to come out with the 'you never had it so good' line in an election campaign. I think we know what would happen.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624848#Comment_121624848

Sinn Fein are relevant because some people are stupid enough to believe the noise coming from them. Reminds me of the Simpson episode when Homer becomes the person looking after rubbish. See how that turned out

just look at Sinn Fein record in DCC when they took over.

The “I’m not a Sinn Fein supporter” is thrown out daily, usual by accounts who spend all day defending them. I honestly couldn’t care who you vote for.

if you want to discuss Sinn Fein policies, give me a shout , as you don’t support them I expect you will be able to pick the faults in them without been biased, I won’t hold my breath

Idbatterim

Its really hilarious when you think about it! FG in quite the quandry. Ok we will lose and alienate a huge amount of our younger vote. We are going to keep up this lunacy of unlimited and uncontrolled immigration, making the housing crisis worse and also just in general, really starting to get peoples backs up for multiple reasons. With their bullshit "we know best kids"...

So they are losing a huge amount of votes, it now needs to turn into seat loses, its the only thing that MIGHT force them to stop ignoring a large part of the population who are totally screwed by this greed fetish, sorry , I meant housing crisis...

these rip off homes also dont help people who want to move to a more expensive property. A small minority might be stuck in negative equity, only matters if they want to move. What does it do for old people? give them smug satisfaction that they home they will likely die in, is X?

Nearly any fall out would be worth cheaper prices, brought about, I suggest, by increasing supply , making it cheaper to build and reducing taxes on building...

Idbatterim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121625139#Comment_121625139

yeah and some people are stupid enough to be believe the decades of noise coming from FFG. One we dont know what will happen. FFG are a proven farce, but I am sure one of their shiny new plans, will deliver any decade now...

Some people were also stupid to believe FG would reward the early rises. FIFTY percent marginal tax rate over pittance, suggests otherwise.

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121624830#Comment_121624830

🤣

more “fact” when it’s not a fact.

”scaremongering” get up the yard

I provided the article and plenty of information on Mary Lou running after the apple money, calling for corporate tax to be increased. Saying MNC are not paying tax etc etc etc

As I said, incompetent from the online supporters right up to the top.

Next time you try attacking the poster instead of the post, try a little harder. Copy and paste didn’t work

Clo-Clo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121625168#Comment_121625168

Yet Ireland is a massively successful country, yes with problems, but massively successful

Some people won’t be happy till the country is ruined and then tell us about great it was before