Excellent article on how important small landlords are and how screwing them over hasn't worked

handlemaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119161240#Comment_119161240

The rent was been increased to market rate. No mention of the rent been under market value for x years.

tscul32

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119161417#Comment_119161417

The market rate however was based on the asking price for 3 other similar properties in the area - all also owned by the same landlord.

I do think a jump like that is quite unfair. The average person will not be able to just absorb a jump like that.

DubCount

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119161951#Comment_119161951

This is a very big increase for the tenants to absorb.

The possibility of RPZ being introduced overnight means the Landlord has little option but to up rent to the maximum. If the rent was not increased to the maximum level, the introduction of a RPZ would permanently reduce possible rent from the property even if the current tenants leave, or even if the Landlord was to sell up to another Landlord. Lots of small Landlords were caught with the introduction of RPZs when keeping rent low for good tenants etc. The vast majority of those landlords have left or are leaving the market, leaving only full market value properties available.

The government (driven on by the opposition, the "homeless charities", the media etc.) have made property letting a dog eat dog game where the nice guys get punished. I would be slow to blame the landlord who has to play the game in the context of the rules that have been set for him.

As for the use of other landlord properties for comparison, there is only one 4 bed in Co Sligo listed on daft (1600 per month) so where else is the landlord supposed to get comparisons? No doubt there will be a new piece of legislation brought in for this as well - madness.

Pussyhands

If you give free income up to whatever amount then investors are just going to outbid first time buyers!

There's a shortage of places to buy not rent! There's thousands of people renting who want to buy and they can't! That's the problem.

Landlords exiting? So what? It's not like they're demolishing the houses are they??

Giving tax breaks to landlords doesn't create more houses.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119160743#Comment_119160743

This is such a terrible take! Thank you for squeezing as many people into a house a possible... Despite them not wanting to share with others and wanting their own space.

Sounds like you'd be in favour of banning first time buyers from buying at all? Sure just let investors buy because they'll fill up all the rooms!

Yes, we should ban first time buyers because a couple buying a three bed semi will just leave rooms free whereas investors will fill up all rooms and have couples sharing!

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162212#Comment_119162212

How did you get that post so wrong?

Topgear on Dave

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162142#Comment_119162142

There's a shortage of accomodation generally, both rent and buy.

Renters get it worse though because lots of mostly homeowning voters don't give a shite about them, we need a solid supply of places to rent.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162239#Comment_119162239

There's be loads more to rent if more was made available to buy. I'm renting. I don't want to rent! I want to buy! If I buy then someone else who wants to rent can rent there.

handlemaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119161951#Comment_119161951

I doesn't matter other renters in the area paid that rate. The landlord abided by the rules.

handlemaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162142#Comment_119162142

So if there are one willing to purchase property and rent it out to renters in the towns around Ireland you see no issue in that ? Your assuming everyone requiring housing wants to buy and has to means to buy. Its just not the case.

handlemaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162232#Comment_119162232

Because its anti landlord fog.

squigglestrebor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119159849#Comment_119159849

Hahahahaha

10pennymixup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162298#Comment_119162298

That's if the landlord doesn't sell up the minute you leave, as most small private LL's are doing.

Pussyhands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162706#Comment_119162706

If they sell, it's because they want to spend the capital appreciation bonanza.

Mortgages are fixed, or they should be, so the rental income vastly outweighs the mortgage even after taxes.

And at the end of the day, their mortgage will be paid for by someone else and they have the whole asset.

Tow

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162232#Comment_119162232

That post is reality. We has several houses of bed sits. Got rid of two then bedsits got banned, and brought the others up to requirements. The two sold were converted to an apartment per floor. The net result is the same houses now home ~50 less people.

10pennymixup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119162733#Comment_119162733

Pure twaddle.

wanderer 22

That's a good point I love girls arses.

:-\

Dav010

Lets scrap income tax and lower prices for everything, what could go wrong?

mrslancaster

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119161240#Comment_119161240

I get that, and imo small landlords have been treated with complete disdain in the past few years. Every time there's a new amendment to the RTA, landlords get more responsibilities while tenants get more rights, very unbalanced at this stage. Easy to see why landlords are selling up or doing whatever they need to do before their area becomes an RPZ and ties the rent at below market rate. A €600 monthly increase is a huge jump though, tough for any tenant.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163079#Comment_119163079

The government and society have created a situation where LL's are exiting the business. Property tax is not allowed as an expense. Standard business expenses are not allowed as straight forward expenses. If you carry out house improvement/repairs( where like for like may not be possible) some or all of these expenses may not be allowed against tax.

To add insult to injury rental income is considered unearned so PRSI is not allowed to create OAP entitlement. You have the situation at present it may be appropriate to divest property that was lived in for a few years as capital gains are averaged over the term of ownership.

Expenses are very hard to offset against rental income because of regulations. We even had the crazy situation for about 10 years where only 80% of interest was allowed against income. Neither can you claim pre rental expense allowed against rental income.

Regulations have created a situation where if you are in an RPZ and have a seriously under market rent you are better off exiting the market. If you are not in in an RPZ you are crazy not to rise these to the maximum market rate.

In most business sectors there is divestment allowances if you are exiting the business. In small business there is a 750k allowance against capital gain on disposal of a farm or business reduced to 500k if over 65. None of these are allowed for LL's or even any similar allowances.

Diemos

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119161417#Comment_119161417

But that would mean that a landlord was under charging.

And would go against the prevailing narrative that they are all soulless bastards. No one wants to hear that.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164315#Comment_119164315

Your logic could be applied to all goods and services which people need and are in short supply, surely you understand the implications of doing that and why rental income is taxable.

PropJoe10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119163021#Comment_119163021

I don't have anything to say regarding your post, but I do find it amusing that you're a teacher and have a username of "I love girls arses". I'm sure you're popular with your students' parents! 😂

Seriously though, this isn't a bad idea. I currently own a property that I've considered putting on the rental market but due to the current tax rates on rental income, I'd have to set the rent at a very high rate to even cover my costs (I have a mortgage on the property). Something has to change on that front to make it worthwhile for the small landlord to stay in, or enter, the market.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119164361#Comment_119164361

The government incentives sectors of the economy all the time, whether it is the building sector, farming, tourism, childcare, sport, industry etc. It incentives companies to come and set up here.

For the last 20-30 years the small landlord has been see as a parasite by some sectors of society and government. Like any other business sectors there is good, bad and indifferent within this sector.

A part of this sector were LL with three properties or less. These are walking away from the sector and what was a trickle is now turning into a downpour.

The govern will never make it tax exempt. It may however incentive those within the sector to stay and encourage new investment by them or others the same as any other industry. Neither will it apply the rent a room to the sector.

However minimal changes could make it more attractive. A 3k tax free allowance on first 2-3 houses. The allowing of house improvements to be written off against rental income.

An interesting one that would stabilise present ownership would be an allowance off 100k/house of capital gain for those in industry for longer than ten year and over 55 years of age on up to three houses. If it was indicated in the budget that this would be in force in say 5 years time it would encourage those within to stay put.

Tax treatment is tweaked in every industry. They have done this with Reits. Why should the smaller LL sector not be tweaked as well

Wanderer78

yup, another major screw up in our markets, lets do everything to monopolise our markets, shur what could go wrong!

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119168256#Comment_119168256

I agree that incentives can and some would argue should be introduced. I took advantage of Section 23 tax reliefs on rental income myself when it was introduced. But the poster was talking about zero tax on rental income, which is loon stuff.

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119168289#Comment_119168289

Monopolise? By who?

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119169025#Comment_119169025

I think that is a problems where people fail to understand the way the real world works. However there is deep frustration by many smaller LL's who feel red tape ties them up

Section 23 and similar reliefs were grand if you bought property that held its value. However from 2008 on these properties in general failed to hold decent values. As lot of the holiday homes are still 50% of there original cost. Some of the students accommodation is similar as is stuff build in what were designated sites in smaller town centers.

Another change that should happen is where a tenant is withholding all or part rent for the RTB to adjudicate on the case any withheld rent has to be paid into a escrow account operated by the RTB. No payment into escrow account no appeal and eviction can proceed. This would stop a lot of abuse of the RTB appeals system

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119169027#Comment_119169027

its clearly obvious our property markets are being monopolised by larger investment groups, this is what was intended!

Dav010

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119169200#Comment_119169200

And called for by many of boards who wanted “amateur” LLs to get out, and “professional” LLs to come into the market. Having larger investment funds may not be all bad, they can afford to take the hit on errant tenants, do ongoing repairs, manage developments professionally. Of course the drawback, and what was prophesied has come to pass, increases would be like clockwork on the date they are expected.

Small landlords are criticised endlessly for maximising their investment, perhaps it is better to hand the sector over to faceless corporates.