Two motorcyclists killed today on M50

Cienciano

That's crazy, even without the motorbike he would have hit the car turning right.

fits

There was a car stationary behind the one turning right in kilkenny - awfully sad

the blood bikes rider was marshalling a cycling event a few years ago. Cycle against suicide I think.

road_high

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119170910#Comment_119170910

Part of me thinks a shame it wasn’t a 40 ft juggernaut coming but then the idiot would have killed 3 people including himself if not more.

The gardai clearly weren’t happy at all- they held him in custody for a few days and weren’t happy with bail- I sense he was playing the bigshot lawyer with them. Pity they didn’t transfer him to the ‘Joy for a few nights.

LollipopJimmy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119171148#Comment_119171148

I'd be hoping he gets a custodial here. Sounds like a right knob, his biggest concerns right now being his residency

road_high

Its fairly obvious the Gardai didn’t think much of him anyhow - reading between the lines.

Usually happens with “big important” I ams

mjsc1970

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119170683#Comment_119170683

Holy fook, that's unreal

kirving

The article doesn't specifically say that's how it happened, but if inwas to speculate, it seems likely. Like all collisions, there is usually a number of contributing factors.

I drive enough on regional roads to anticipate a lot of stupid driving. I now actively slow down in areas where I've had close calls due to others crossing into my lane, and that in turn has saved further close calls and likely crashes. I've been lucky to be honest.

The recent appeals about not sharing images I agree with, but I do think we should have road safety adverts similar in grusome detail as are printed on cigarette packets. Sitting in a modern, quiet, comfortable car, you have absolutely no appreciation of how vulnerable you actually are.

Seth Brundle

The recent appeals about not sharing images I agree with, but I do think we should have road safety adverts similar in grusome detail as are printed on cigarette packets. Sitting in a modern, quiet, comfortable car, you have absolutely no appreciation of how vulnerable you actually are.

There was a campaign some years ago where collision wrecks were positioned along the old N1. I don't think it had much of an effect on driver behaviour.

I'd be of the view that the only thing that will change behaviour is the likely chance of being caught and punished.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119171625#Comment_119171625

The problem is, it's almost impossible to catch people doing things which directly result in fatal collisions eg: turning across traffic. (Headlights on at *all times* is a proven life saver)

I'd love to see stats on how many penalty points drivers who caused or were involved in collisions had. I very much doubt there's any correlation.

In saying that, I know very well that it's nigh on impossible to prove the inverse. ie: how many collisions did not happen, due to bad drivers changing their ways due to receiving points

magicbastarder

i think one of the issues in ireland is that road safety is essentially considered 'solved' by the authorities; we've been bumbling along at near historically low levels of fatalities, but that is the only metric many in the government seem to care about. more vulnerable road users have been driven (pun unintended) off the road, and the low levels of fatalities are in no small part due to there being less of those road users on the road, while anyone in a car now enjoys unprecedented levels of safety.

The problem is, it's almost impossible to catch people doing things which directly result in fatal collisions eg: turning across traffic. (Headlights on at *all times* is a proven life saver)

i half witnessed the closest i've seen in years, to what could have been a fatality a few weeks ago, and it was a motorcyclist and pillion passenger driven off the road by a HGV overtaking me. and this ties in with the above quote - dangerous behaviour is usually very difficult to easily quantify. failing to check your mirrors can't be detected in the same way speed can.

newmember2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119170683#Comment_119170683

I'm not getting this at all, there's a straight road with a turn-off and it's on the right of the two cars and on the left of the approaching motorcyclists...ahh...he came out of the turn? Saw the car and jeep waiting to turn and ducked out in front of them across the path of the approaching bikers? Maybe he started to pull out when he saw the car and jeep waiting and was already coming out before he looked the other way...

Either way, another tragic loss of life on our roads - so needless and possibly avoidable.

RIP

fits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119171785#Comment_119171785

Agree completely. I used to cycle and ride horses on country roads and had enough terrifying moments that I’d be hesitant to again. You’d never see horses on a road now

my teenage years were spent on a bicycle on the same roads. Doubt it will be the same for my children.

magicbastarder

actually, where my wife has her horse, they've had issues with motorcyclists on and off over the last year or so, blasting past the place at high revs and spooking the horses. the owner - himself a keep motorcyclist, he has some big touring BMW yoke, went out one day and flagged one guy who was repeatedly zipping past the place and explained that he can't be doing that, there are several stables along the road, etc.; and he's a very genial guy too, and said he thought the chap seemed OK about it.

for a few weeks, once or twice a week, what was presumably the same rider would pull into the car park of the stables, and rev his engine as hard as he could for 20 or 30s and then drive off.

Bluefoam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119172491#Comment_119172491

Sounds legit...

Varik

From some of the stuff mentioned elsewhere about where it happened I'd say it was the below.

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.6470614,-7.1262678,3a,75y,77.4h,72.97t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1suugD9GekwHBEvbJGl79SbA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Girl Geraldine

If motorbikes were invented today they would be banned and not allowed on the roads. They are absolutely lethal. And another two fellas killed off of bikes over the weekend in the Isle of Man. I think a lot of it is selfish thrill seeking too.

Bluefoam

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119172892#Comment_119172892

Literally, cars kill more people than any other human invention, including the gun... surely if they were invented today, they would be the first thing to be banned...

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119172999#Comment_119172999

In proportion to the number of cars on the road? Really?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119172881#Comment_119172881

I dunno about that. If there was a car turning right, then that means the chap that hit the bikers either seen them coming a mile off (a straight stretch of road) or, if he was coming from the minor road, and the bikes were turning left, that means he'd have seen the car turning right in front of the jeep (due to the angle of the road).

I don't know the area, but using that stretch of road that you've linked to, as an example, I'd say this is more likely:

https://www.google.com/maps/@52.6457534,-7.1532671,3a,75y,277.8h,74.63t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1s_eNNHaCPOnRiPITZc8iTAA!2e0!7i16384!8i8192

Possible that the car turning right was going to the gate of the field. With the angle of that road, if there was a jeep behind it, it's possible that our driver wouldn't have been able to see beyond the jeep as he came around the bend, meaning both the car and oncoming bikers would have been invisible.

Complete speculation and guesswork, though, obviously.

prunudo

Hang on while I reach for my troll spray. To paraphrase Guy Martin, you go off and cut your grass and let us get on with how we want to live our lives.

whatchagonnado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119158139#Comment_119158139

People driving too close on the M50 and motorways in general is a big problem here. Causes tailbacks and accidents, and is more deadly than speed. We need fines/points for tailgating.

blade1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119173050#Comment_119173050

What has that got to do with anything?

Give 5 million guns to everyone in Ireland and if only 50'000 die because of them it's only 1%.

That's a small proportion.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119172892#Comment_119172892

I dunno if I'd agree that they'd be banned, considering scooters and e-bicycles are flying around like it's no one's business, but I get the point you're making.

I am relatively new to bikes, and I've met (in person) and chatted (online) with quite a few bikers. I've not got a whole host of hobbies or interests, bit I have met many people from other 'interests' I have too (be it via Jiu Jitsu training, my local gym, WWE fans, photography club, etc.) and there definitely seems to be many more "man babies" involved in motorbiking.

A disproportionate amount of people (based on my own, anecdotal experience) involved in biking seem to think they can do no wrong and the world should bend to suit them. People that will travel an 80kph road at 130kph and not understand why cars don't anticipate them when moving out of junctions, making turns, etc. People who will show no level of responsibility or cop-on, and will blame everyone else for anything that happens.

Of course, there are the more genuine, decent, respectable and responsible bikers who treat the road (and other road users) with courtesy. I would say the decent, courteous riders are the vast majority, but unfortunately, as usual, it's the minority that get everyone tarred with the same brush.

Henry Ford III

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119170428#Comment_119170428

I find lane discipline way worse on the M50.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119173317#Comment_119173317

one obvious difference between bicycles and motorbikes is the speed. you'd need to be a fit cyclist to sustain a speed above 30km/h.

the vast majority of motorbike riders, i do not have an issue with. it's the lads with bikes so loud they leave your ears ringing when they pass, who i'd happily see put off the road.

LollipopJimmy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119173378#Comment_119173378

Loud pipes save lives

Varik

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119173188#Comment_119173188

It said the townland in the first article, the one I said also isn't in it either but it's right before it and your one is a good bit down from it. Only one in the actual townland makes no sense as it's very open.

I though the 2 cars were turning left, the bikes were coming from the right, and then he crossed in front of them turning right.

The corner there is pretty obscured, especially if you're rushing as he was trying to overtake 2 cars at a junction. So looking from 2+ car lengths back from the edge it'd be hard to see anything from the right

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119173405#Comment_119173405

colour me sceptical about the safety argument.

cruizer101

Two cars turning right ahead and he tries to overtake them doesn't sound right. He wasn't drunk or that and had partner and her granny in car so unlikely to be dicking about, and he's a lawyer so he's not an complete idiot.

I wonder was it more a case of was distracted while driving along, didn't notice the cars in front had stopped to turn right until he was onto of them then veered out to the right to avoid going into the back of them.

I've heard before of a phenomenon where drivers used to being on the other side of the road often veer out to the center of road to avoid a crash rather than to the side of road as for them to the right is to the side of road, where you would typically veer towards in panic rather than other side of road.

Its just speculation and doesn't change that he should still be charged but to me makes more sense than was deliberately trying to overtake the turning right vehicles.

Though as I think about it now, maybe he thought he was undertaking them, although it says he doesn't drive much in Canada would still be used to travelling on opposite side of road.

Tragic incident none the less.

newmember2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119173421#Comment_119173421

If it's the first photo posted then possibly the car and jeep were possibly waiting on the main road to turn right into the minor road. The Skoda Fabia hardly went to overtake two cars on the wrong side of the road at a junction when one of the cars is stopped to take the turn?? Did he try and cut in behind them onto the minor road, saw the motorcyclists but thought the other guy was being too cautious and misjudged the bikers speed and went for it? Doesn't really sound plausible either.