Cult of Stephen Kenny

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174655#Comment_119174655

well it’s not based on absolutely nothing. He took notts forest to bottom of the table. Now there in the PL. his record before that was respectable but nothing that would lead you to believe he can add much to Ireland

ArnoldJRimmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174714#Comment_119174714

Trap came in 7 years after we last qualified for a WC. He still had prime PL players from our last golden generation. He embarrassed the country at Euro 2012 before losing 6-1 at home to Germany. Hardly hounded out

osarusan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174723#Comment_119174723

That's why the poster said it was complete rubbish to say he's been found out everywhere he has been. He hasn't at all. Forest was his one obvious failure, and they mentioned that

Apart from that Hughton did pretty well with clubs, and he ended up being one of those managers whose pragmatic style of play makes it look like he's the one limiting the club's progress so they get rid of him, only to find out, as Newcastle did and Norwich did, that things would get worse after he was gone.

Now I don't think Hughton is anything amazing. But there is no footballing criterion on which he could be compared to Kenny that he wouldn't come out on top. If you are looking for a guy to overhaul a national side and instill a passing culture, Hughton isn't near the top of my list...but he's still higher up than Kenny.

As a manager, you can't ask any more of a manager (and shouldn't expect any less) than that they maximise the resources at their disposal. Now this set of players is nothing special, but they are still not bad enough that losing to Armenia, Luxembourg, and drawing with Azerbaijan aren't diabolical results. Kenny is more likely to fail to get the best out of them than he is to succeed, and each potential 'turn the corner' moment is followed by a return to the pits.

Fred Astaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174723#Comment_119174723

He has one failure which I have already referenced. Most managers end up with a failure on their CV. Stephen Kenny has two failures at a level universes lower than Hughton.

The other jobs he managed he was a success in.

He got Newcastle promoted and safely in Premier League mid table when he left. Birmingham beaten in play-offs in a season where he had Europa League football to contend with (while in the Championship). Knocked out of group stage with almost an unheard of points total - 10 points. Moved to Norwich where he had them 11th in his first season and was on track to avoid relegation again when he left. Norwich have been immediately relegated when they returned to the Premier League every time since Hughton.

Moved to Brighton where he got them promoted and survived in the Premier League for 2 seasons. Left before Dan Ashworth joined and revolutionised their transfer policy, which it took Potter 3 years to benefit from. Potter was no improvement on Hughton for 2 years.

Anyone saying he is a bad manager is a complete and utter bluffer who should be ignored.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174775#Comment_119174775

Newcastle finished fifth the season after Hughton went. The relegation came much later.

CorkRed93

The cult of hughton. Any word on how Brighton have done since sacking him

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174713#Comment_119174713

no need to get condescending. you are raising an irrelevancy in the thread and offering it to the thread as if it were the topic

that's not strawman responding from me. thats a friendly redirection towards the point of the thread.

if i were on a thread about ireland not producing players like we did when our best lads played in top english clubs (which were populated almost totally by players from the british isles at that time) then great lets talk

the complexities about the changes since then in the english and international games would make for an interesting debate- certainly there'd be more in it than 'irish players got much worse and that's that'

but the question isn't that, its whether stephen kenny is doing enough with the players he has relative to similarly resourced (playing squad wise) international managers

that you cant keep to that point makes you the strawman here, and the idea that its anyone else struggling to stay clear on things is alas a reflection maybe on your own struggles on that score, a mhic

"you are raising an irrelevancy in the thread"

Talking about the lack of talent in Irish grassroots football is irrelevant in a thread about Irish football.

Only on the internet would you see something so nonsensical.

Gusser09

I think people criticising Hughton's achievements and career yet defending Kenny need to do some research.

Look I think we all wanted Kenny to be successful but the main issue seems to be his reluctance to try something different in terms of formation and style. There is zero wrong with going direct or route one as long as it's not aimless.

As I've stated umpteen times we need to be beating the weaker teams in groups in order to remain in with a shout at the business end of things. It's utterly appalling that we could be out of this group by this evening.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174779#Comment_119174779

Well the players at notts forest wanted shut of hughton and no mistake.

Fred Astaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174811#Comment_119174811

They finished in identical positions for 2 years after sacking him. Potter finished 15th and 16th.

This year they made it to 9th.

Time will tell if that was a one off.

Hardly the improvement that you are intimating it is. It certainly wasn't immediate and Potter has had the luxury of working with Dan Ashworth to identify a better standard of player. So much so that Newcastle headhunted Ashworth to oversee their playing staff transformation over the next few years.

Fire Kenny and get Hughton in. It would probably improve results a little. Perhaps stop us from losing vital seeding.

But the root of the problem isn't the manager, it's our inability to produce top talent compared to twenty years ago. The grassroots is destroyed. Anyone who thinks this point isn't relevant needs their head checked.

CorkRed93

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174837#Comment_119174837

Pottets Brighton have been miles and miles better than hughtons. A blind man could see it. The style of play since he took over has changed drastically.

Fred Astaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174857#Comment_119174857

Shame the Premier League table couldn't see it for 2 years.

CorkRed93

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174861#Comment_119174861

Let's leave it there if that's all you see. Dense.

Fred Astaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174821#Comment_119174821

This thread is about the results of Stephen Kenny relative to the resources he has available to him, and those results are abysmal. Unacceptable, rubbish.

Nobody is unaware of our issues at grassroutes level and you aren't some sort of savant for repeatedly bringing them up.

They will take time to be addressed and fixed. We are just barely out of the clutches of a vile criminal.

Just because we have issues at grassroutes level, does not mean that we cannot be competitive at senior level, with the right manager in place. We are obviously not going to be as successful as teams managed by Jack and as good as teams containing Robbie Keane and Damien Duff, but there is a reasonable standard of player there which is enough to make play-offs and qualify for the odd tournament. There is no point waving the white flag for the next 30 years at senior level just because the grassroutes situation isn't ideal.

24 teams qualify for the European Championships. There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't be amongst them in 2024. Except there is a reason, Stephen Kenny is his name.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174846#Comment_119174846

relevant to another thread lad. read the title of this one again, maybe check yr glasses yourself and dont be too worried about anyone else's head

I think I see the real deluded ones in this thread now.

👀

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174885#Comment_119174885

reasonable standard of player? this must be the worst squad we've had in a long long time, certainly in my lifetime and my fathers - no midfielders, no attackers, it's made up of bit part players and league 1 workhorses. we don't really deserve to be going to any tournaments with this lot.

Fred Astaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174876#Comment_119174876

Lets, because you made a clown statement and proceeded to prove that you are a clown.

Football is a results business, that is why the scoreboard is shown in the corner of the screen, and not the possession statistic. Thats why the winner is judged on goals rather than passes.

So whether or not something was more pleasing on the eye makes no difference if the results didn't follow. Which they didn't, until year 3, when Potter had 3 years of working with Ashworth to bring in bargains from all over the world - the same Ashworth that has been headhunted by Newcastle who will be spending hundreds of millions over the next few years and trust him to do it.

Try badminton, the following is probably low enough that you can talk sh*te to yourself and nobody will call you out on it.

Logic:

The thread is about Stephen Kenny and his performance.

I respond by saying that Kenny isn't the true problem (on topic)

I offer an explanation for my above on topic response (i.e. grassroots football)

Geniuses say that's not allowed because it's not on topic

🤔🤔🤔

Honestly, the logic of the average football supporter has never been great. Probably explains why all the educated people flock to rugby. 👍

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174916#Comment_119174916

why are you so angry and abusing everyone? chill the f**k out

CorkRed93

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174916#Comment_119174916

Lol if football was a results business then Potter would have been sacked like our saviour hughton.

Fred Astaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174912#Comment_119174912

Compared to the rest of Europe, yes, it is a reasonable standard.

The Championship as I have already stated is the 11th best league in the World, and provided evidence to support. It isn't some pub league.

We are currently the 25th ranked team in Europe (taking into accounts Stephen Kennys tireless efforts to sh*t on our ranking) and 24 qualify for the next Euros. No reason why we shouldn't be there.

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174771#Comment_119174771

Embarrassed the country? Go bang your head. We were in a group with the 2 finalists.

as I said a deluded fan base.

Fred Astaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174921#Comment_119174921

Because people are making statements which are utterly wrong - repeatedly.

That poster was just off the back of calling me dense but you didn't cry hysteria over that.

Trap definitely had a better squad though, even if it was aging a bit. I took a look and some of the names were:

Given, O'Shea, Dunne, Duff, Keane...

Even the likes of Whelan, McGeady, Walters, Andrews, Doyle would be very welcome in our current team.

tastyt

How can anyone be baffled over our lack of ability to produce top players . We have NEVER produced top players here . We have thrown them over to England to see would they do it for us . The one man who hit a group together that brought us unbelievable underage success was Brian Kerr and he can’t even get an underage coaching role now .

There is no money in football in Ireland for many reasons . The country is too small and doesn’t have enough corporate backers to go round . GAA and Rugby are bigger draws and promoted much better . That’s where the banks , the big corporations all want to put their money and their promotion . None of them are going to get the publicity they want by putting up a million each year for the winners of the league of Ireland or for building facilities for Longford Town or Finn Harps academies

But all that’s another’s days work . The senior international managers job is to win games and qualify for tournaments and he has been abysmal so far .

If Kenny wanted to develop a style and produce a generation of more progressive footballers he should have stayed in his underage role and overseen everything.

But he chose the big job instead and has to be judged accordingly. Senior job is not a development role

rob316

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174982#Comment_119174982

He did but getting hammered by the finalists in your Euro group and been hammered by a German side that went on to win that World Cup is hardly surprising results and certainly not "embarassing"

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119175012#Comment_119175012

No. I think qualifying for a tournament is basically as good as winning it for us.