Cult of Stephen Kenny

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095070#Comment_121095070

You go out and you look at different managers. Im sure the FAI will have. a list.

Your question is loaded. No matter who people say LOI fanboys wont have any of it. " oh we'll never get him" or " sure hes only a championship manager. Hes shite."

Gusser09

And for the record the emergence of Evan ferguson will make the job a lot more appealing to managers.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121094825#Comment_121094825

Haha Roy Keane 😂🤣

waynescales1

The decay and rot of Irish football and the standard of the national team is a manifestation of the neglect and lack of support/funding received by the domestic game in this country, at youth and senior level, both by the FAI and “Irish” football fans. The domestic game is where the talented footballers who will go on to represent their country begin their journey. We’re 20+ years behind the rest of Europe in terms of development. Very, very worrying times for Irish football.

amacca

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121094900#Comment_121094900

Bit harsh on the players??..some played shite but they have potential, some aren't bad...but some good players isn't enough...and that's all we have at the moment, some potential.

We don't have....a critical mass of decent ones to really hope to be in an automatic qualification spot...it could happen but teams with a much larger playing pool of players/management at a higher standard would have to **** up at the sdme time as us raising our level

Some of the decent ones have to do to much with little or no support, some of the ones that initially looked good seem to have regressed a little but there are some decent players that don't have enough quality around them to shine ...bit unfair to call them shite?...

If you leave out players that were dependable and a little past their sell by date or soon to be gone from international football (duffy, mc clean who to me up until recently was the most frustrating run the ball into trouble and give it away merchant ever but now at least can be depended upon for a cross/free kick/delivery) there are some bright sparks in terms of the players

Collins made a couple of mistakes and looked a little leggy but there's potential there

Knight shows promise imo and he's honest

Ogbene hesitated at crucial times in the France game and tonight but he's solid, has a bit of pace, if he had a bit of support and pulled or was free to pull the trigger first time he could be useful

Doherty was guilty of a woeful header that resulted in our first goal conceded and strikes me as something of a loose cannon but he's not intimidated or scared and will attack up to the point he is exhausted...

Ferguson looks like he could be a player

Egan is solid enough, if workmanlike

Bazunu is a good goalie or he has been for ireland at least

Some of the other players I haven't seen enough of but obafemi had a bit of pace last time I saw him

There aren't enough of them and we dont have a couple of players to really get a hold of it in midfield + when we do get possession we don't look like scoring from open play in a month of Sundays..

There's a lack of conviction/confidence when it comes to balls out attacking play when we do get an opportunity...a bit of hesitation at the wrong time, an extra touch, an unnecessary cut back, no one in hhe box or running in and taking the chance......perhaps its understandable as we do look vulnerable when we commit..but even ironing yhat out might increase the chances of more favourable results

There are also a lot of short spells of decent passing only for a player to make a headscratching decision/loose pass that gives away possession....its like the concentration goes

Looking from the outside, one thing the management appears to have done well for me is attempt to blood new players and give them a shot and expand the player pool options/somewhat....I could be totally wrong but it seemed like ireland let things really go off the boil and a number of prospects slipped through our fingers and/or weren't properly supported/managed in the past before Kenny era...

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095137#Comment_121095137

Incorrect.

Nathan Collins

Gavin Bazunu

John Egan

Josh Cullen

Adam Idah

Ogbene

Ferguson

Obafemi

Smallbone

Doherty

Knight

Dara o shea

Omabamdiele

All of the above players are playing at a level which suggests that we should be more than capable of competing with and beating on some occassions the following teams

Luxembourg

Greece

Azerbaijan

Armenia

Serbia

Ukraine

SK has failed to beat the above teams when needed on multiple occassions resulting in groups being over half way through.

Those players are good enough to compete in groups going forward but a change in management is needed.

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095114#Comment_121095114

And when none of your list will take the job for the money and the lads who'd take the money aren't up to the job?

There's a group of lads who would run through a brick wall for this team, but realistically they'd need a Jürgen klopp/Alex Ferguson to get them there, and the fai is far too broken for that.

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095137#Comment_121095137

Careful now, you'll be branded a LOI fanboy.

It is quite strange that they don't make the link that domestic leagues is where international players come from, other countries invest more in their domestic leagues, the standards are higher as a result and it has a knock on effect of feeding better players to their respective national teams.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095156#Comment_121095156

I dont know. Really i dont have the answers. The answer i do have is SK has run his race.

So we need to look elsewhere.

erlichbachman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121094984#Comment_121094984

Foundations? He’s probably set Ireland back about 4-6 years as a football nation, I don’t blame him though cause I’d take the job too if it was offered to me, a horrendous appointment

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095068#Comment_121095068

The pro-Kenny people are having meltdowns in the Ireland Football thread, lots of ratty comments about Martin O'Neill, Mick McCarthy etc. They still don't want to focus on Kenny but want to try and diminish other Irish managers achievements, basically because 'their man' (Kenny) has now failed.

The diehard Kenny narrative seems to be one of four things

1) The FAI are to blame

2) The players are not there

3) Kenny has changed the style of play - made it 'good to watch'

4) Kenny was thinking of the future of Irish football - if you are against Kenny you also don't care about the future of Irish football

--

But a lot of that made no sense to me (except partly point 2, and partly point 1).

But given the players available, they should be doing a bit better, but if the fans don't go to LOI games the FAI will always be pissing against the wind

What they basically wanted Kenny to do was change the course of Irish football, by belief and a philosophy on it's own - by the senior side.

That is not something that can be done from the top down. It is done from the grassroots up. Kenny and his diehard supporters were in a fantasy land from start to finish IMO.

JKerova1

Going to the Euros in 2016 was one of the best experiences of my life. Unfortunately I feel it will be a very long time before we Ireland at another tournament again. We have a promising young striker and some decent defenders but the midfield is woefully poor. A League 2 player was starting for Ireland tonight! I think it would be a coup for the FAI if they got Carsley to take over but if I was him I wouldn't touch it will a ten foot pole. I do feel sorry for Kenny when he is being slated by the likes of Brian Kerr who had three champions league winners in his Irish squad, a team of premier league players and still could not beat Israel over two games, not to mention that his teams played turgid football. Damien Delaney played for Ireland under Trappatoni but seems to have forgotten how appalling Traps teams were to watch. I know a lot of people who were completely put off the national team when he was manager. The under-21 job was ideal for Kenny and he got great results while he was there. He probably should never have got the senior job. Sadly I feel that once Kenny does go, like Kerr, he will be ostracised from the FAI completely and end up back in LOI.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095263#Comment_121095263

I'm not on the Ireland Football thread which is probably just as well. As I stated before diehard fans of Kenny are diehard fans of the League of Ireland. It is not really Kenny/Ireland they support but the LoI itself. As a former successful LoI manager Kenny is their representative as he holds the top job in management in Ireland. For them - to criticise Kenny is to criticise the LoI. This is precisely why they deflect bad results from Kenny with a massive list of blame including former managers, current players, the FAI, even the draw itself (how could we be expected to win?). Many of these fans genuinely believe that Kenny's situation could improve if he played more LoI players.

On the playing style - relative to Trappatoni/O'Neill it is safe to say that Ireland played more possession football under Kenny. Yet most of it was possession for possession's sake. In two matches at home to Gibraltar it was scoreless at half-time which was something Gibraltar never "achieve". Ten thousand passes among our back four was seen as a new departure, a new style, a 'breath of fresh air' from spoofers like Eamon Dunphy and the like. . . but it was nothing of the sort and fell flat on its face against teams only slightly better than Gibraltar. Instead it expended energy, lacked focus and arguably led to too many mistakes which gave up possession for us to be punished by higher quality teams.

Furthermore Kenny's tactics left a lot to be desired. Ireland were spent last night at half time and yet Kenny only seemed to realise this in his after match speech. After an ideal start a period of calm was required maybe to half time. Conserve energy, consolidate the lead and go at them in the second half. There appeared to be no reaction to the Dutch tactical changes and substitutions were made with just two minutes left.

Either way a new departure is now required.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095162#Comment_121095162

Some of the best players Ireland has ever produced played little time in the LoI before going (mainly) to England. The real issue (and this is the same for Wales, Scotland and even Northern ireland) is that in the past 50s-90s the top clubs in England scouted Britain and Ireland for the best players . . . and it worked superbly with English clubs dominating in Europe in the late 70s and early 80s.

All changed when the Premier League arrived in 1992. More money meant more players from around the world began to join the top clubs in England leaving less opportunities for home grown lads.

This is not to negate the League of Ireland. It has a huge role to play in developing players but the traditional role of the LoI in contributing to our former success has been limited. Nevertheless I do support more money and investment in the LoI and grassroots in general but the politicians who make the decisions are GAA/Rugby heads, not football.

Motivator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121092568#Comment_121092568

For a fella with a season ticket since 2005, it’s wasted on you seeing as you were posting away on here during the match. Perhaps you’re one of those “armchair” fans you accused me of. A baffling thing to call someone. A fan is a fan whether they’re in Row A or listening on the radio.

Anyway, back to last night. Your pal Stephen Kenny finally looks to have used up the last of his 9 lives. Care to pontificate on that shite we were subjected to last night in the second half? The game was there for the taking and whatever he said or didn’t say at half time the players came back out flat as pancakes. All this possession based attractive football hes trying to cod people into thinking he’s brought in isn’t worth a shite and last night was the best evidence of that. The crowd moaned and groaned every time an Irish player got on the ball and looked sideways or backwards. Time and time again we saw it. But when a long ball was played down the channels it resulted in a throw in or a corner. It was so obvious this was the way we were going to hurt the Dutch and yet Kenny didn’t have the awareness to notice it. Absolutely shameful game management from him once again.

Don’t ever try and talk anyone down again for having an opinion, a very valid one compared to yours, when it comes to what’s going on with Irish football. Because you couldn’t be anymore clueless about what’s happening. You can have a chat with Kenny about it on Friday nights when he’s back managing in front of 1k people in the LOI.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095113#Comment_121095113

And it's the managers job to make sure the team doesn't get into a situation where it's a Wrexham winger that shouldn't be playing international football that has to provide the service to ocrestrate the comeback.

Beechwoodspark

Stephen Kenny is a genuine man, he does his very best and he lives and breathes Irish football.

Now, unfortunately it’s a “results business” as they say, and things have not been great on that front.

Stephen would be first to admit it’s not gone as hoped for.

Yes the FAI could terminate his contract and let him go but that would of course mean paying him out and then the search for a new manager starts (btw folks - sorry to break it to ye - but no guarantee the next guy will be any better...).

On balance best to leave SK in place for the rest of this campaign.

It will give him time and space to build the team according to his philosophy and style of playing.

Depending on how we go, We may get into the play off and possibly the WC.

And if not, at least SK will have had “every opportunity” to prove himself.

There will be the foundations in place for if the FAI decide to move on from him after this campaign.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121094219#Comment_121094219

If Duff was to get the job i wonder would me get the same stick? Seeing as hi only management job as been in the LOI. Or Roy Keane who hasn't managed anyone in over 10 years.

Howitzer the 5th

Kenny is liked by the players who are collectively lacking in ability, desire and leadership. Their fragile egos are massaged by Kenny. They won't rock the boat. Tidy passing and introducing a heap of newbies, mostly not international standard is supposed to matter?

By contrast while the women's team are far from world beaters they boast Katie McCabe and a smattering of WSL players and international based players who are collectively better than their male counterparts and it would seem far hungrier and they did not like or respect Vera Pauw as rumours exist towards her negative approach to the game and her disrespectful attitude towards the players.

The two camps are oceans apart in hunger and collective drive and desire.

Gusser09

Kenny appears to be as aritculate in the dressing room as he is in interviews. Now pro players shouldnt need to be motivated but imagine being so poor that you suck every bit of motivation out of them.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095021#Comment_121095021

So Premier League fanboy who do you suggest take over?

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095548#Comment_121095548

Why would you level that at me?

Im a supporter of my local soccer club. Not the loi clubs though.

cms88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095567#Comment_121095567

You called anyone who supports him a LOI fanboy did you not?

Motivator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095498#Comment_121095498

Professional football has always been a results business. What exactly did you think it was before, if you think it’s “now” a results business?

It’s this kind of attitude that grates on me. Same way as people are flippant about results in friendlies. Friendly results matter - every result matters. The result of every single game played has a consequence. This nonsense if he’s a nice guy he should be given time has got to stop. He’s been there 3 years and we’ve not seen one improvement. It’s been failure after failure and excuse after excuse.

Peter Flynt

The show is going on as far as SK is concerned. Interviewed last night and he's stated that he's looking to finish the group strongly (not the first time he's said that over the past 3 years) and looking at the possibility of a play off in March. Thoroughly incredible that he's lost 4 out of 5 matches and has only beaten Gibraltar and still looking at the possibility of qualifying for Euro2024.

Beechwoodspark

People prefer SK’s Ireland philosophy/style than MON or Traps.

The results are not where we would like at the moment but style of play is very important too.

Motivator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095627#Comment_121095627

Right, ok and tell us about this wonderful style of play. A style of play that yielded 2 efforts on target against a Dutch team who didn’t look like they really wanted to be in Dublin last night. Let’s not forget one of the shots on target was a penalty.

Tell us what good out style of play is doing? Why have results gotten worse since this new style of play has been adopted? Why do we not look like creating any chances never mind look like scoring goals? Tell us why this style of play has seen Stephen Kenny not win 70% of his games as manager of the team?

Jack Daw

The delusions of the LOI fans can be summed up from this quote from the below piece by Eamonn Sweeney in the Independent when he says:

What is Kenny going to learn from managing the Irish U-21 team that he hasn't already learned with Dundalk in Europe?

https://www.independent.ie/sport/soccer/international-soccer/eamonn-sweeney-fais-irish-solution-to-an-irish-problem-leaves-stephen-kenny-in-no-mans-land/37564821.html

Apparently managing a bunch of semi-professionals who play at a standard similar to the 5th tier in the English game and play once every 3 or 4 years a couple of games against a good European team , provides the same experience as managing the u-21 team who compete against the best u-21 teams from all across Europe.

If Kenny had been left in charge of the u-21 team for 5 or 6 years and showed some positive results and developed as a coach he might have been a good manager for the senior side but the FAI obviously though throwing him in at the deep end was a better idea.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095627#Comment_121095627

The results are showing no signs of improving though. If we'd have beaten Greece I'd be prepared to say maybe we had turned a corner. Kenny was never going to be judged on losing to France or the Netherlands. His downfall has been a consistent failure to beat sides or a lower level and a similar level to us. We are again out of a group at the halfway point and that in itself will be hugely damaging to the development of these players. Losing and failure to remain in groups until the business end of things will be what SK is remembered for. Let's be brutally honest. We were out of the group when we failed to take anything of Greece in Athens.

As for the style of football. I don't agree. All to often undone by individual errors and poor organisation in defence. Now if we are sacrificing working on that in training for a back 5 to be able to constantly boot the ball backwards or sideways without any end product then I'll throw my hat at the thing. The one thing we need to do with a poor midfield is to be exceptionally hard to breakdown. That's just not the case under SK.

The FAI and us fans better hope that Carsley is preapared to take the job. Where else do we turn? That's a valid point that the Pro Kenny camp make to be fair. Who else will want the job with the kind of money on offer.

DownByTheGarden

Theres a bit of "My lovely horse" about Kenny for sure.