Cult of Stephen Kenny

Musicrules

Kenny is up there as our worst ever manager. He has set us back years. It's been a horrendous 3 years with him in charge. It was obvious to many that he was way out of his depth. Shame on those who have backed this fraud at the expense of the development of our players. It costs nothing to get rid of apparently, let him go now and get someone in to try to start the recovery. We probably won't even get a playoff because of Kenny's awful results but give the new manager time to set up the team properly. We've already wasted 3 years on this manger, what's the point in wasting even a day more?

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121099142#Comment_121099142

Oh please God no, just NO.

Gusser09

Can we all agree that Kenny has to go at least?

Are there people still backing him?

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121099191#Comment_121099191

@Curse These Metal Hands is for the craic I think, either that or his hands are causing typos.

CorkRed93

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121099151#Comment_121099151

we've been going backwards since euro 2016 chief, can you keep up please!!

Curse These Metal Hands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121099207#Comment_121099207

No you've convinced me that it's time to give Brian Kerr another go. If we're going to fail, let's fail impressively!

Iecrawfc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121097762#Comment_121097762

Those countries probably have more academies than ireland, more full time coaches, more professional teams, I know Luxembourg have done alot of work in developing soccer in the country in the last 20 years...what did Delaney/FAI do? Spent big on managers to get us to the odd tournament and ignored every other level...and bankrupted the association. Now that we can't rely on English academies to develop our players we are relying on an odd talent to come through like Ferguson against the odds.

dxhound2005

The FAI is not Manchester City with bottomless pockets. And no foreign manager would work for the money that Kenny is on.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121099078#Comment_121099078

He'll probably cap a load of LOI lads. Gain more favour there so he has a job to walk back into somewhere.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121099238#Comment_121099238

Why then do the majority of their players play in really poor standard leagues.

I dont buy that argument. Its just another excuse for SK. We should absolutely be beating them.

hawley

How about Declan Devine of Bohs? Has a good pedigree and has previously managed Derry City and Dunfermline. Would also keep the home fans onboard.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121099293#Comment_121099293

Yeah. Stephen Bradley, Damien Duff, Owen Heary, Pat Fenlon. Jon Daly?

And after they have been interviewed we could interview some guys from the English national league.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121099246#Comment_121099246

In fairness now, it has changed from years ago when the likes of Glen Crowe used to be given a token Ireland cap.

I suppose the real question will be out of all those given debut caps by Kenny how many will be around the Irish squad in 5 years time?

Staunton actually had a good strike rate of about 50% on that score. Kenny would be doing well to beat that.

orangerhyme

We should get Terry Venables in.

shockframe

The campaign by the media to defend Stephen Kenny isn't far off what went on with Fianna Fail after the financial crash.

I wanted him to be a success but he has fallen woefully short of expectations. He must be the least inspiring manager in the history of the Ireland team. At least Staunton had a magnificent career as a player in his favour.

Nonsense about playing good football when we are about where Wales and Northern Ireland were in the mid 90s.

Martin O Neill was ran out of town and vilified by the media over the course of his reign and it was as if he was a complete failure.

He achieved way above what we could have expected and Tony O'Donoghue went all in on him and yet defends Kenny passionately.(although before anyone starts yes MON had lost his way and the time for change was right).

The problem now is the 3 years have done major damage to us. We might rectify things with a steady appointment (like Mccarthy after Jack) but we've lost our edge we've had since the Charlton era.

Mind you the international game doesn't look in a good state when you consider how England and Germany did at the weekend.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121099346#Comment_121099346

Or glen hoddle or kev keegan.

Maybe Harry redknapp

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121098240#Comment_121098240

He’s no nous to realise that when plan A isn’t working, you need to change it before it’s too late. With Kenny, you are 2-1 down, 15 minutes to go, you need something, a final hurrah…he might say, ok, need to change it. His final two subs though instead were made in the 87th minute…. So, about 7 minutes to impact the result… that’s not the mark of a proactive manager…. More like a gamble, “ fuçk it, sure we have two subs, might as well use them. “ apart from McClean coming on early subs 2&3 came into the match late enough too, 73rd minute from memory…

almost like his loyalty to his tactics and ideals trumps what’s happening on the pitch……

dxhound2005

If he had 22 players getting regular game time in the top European leagues, he probably would have done better.

"Last season was a record-breaking one for Republic of Ireland representation in the English Premier League. But, alas, not in a positive way. Just 13 players from these shores got game-time with their clubs, the lowest figure ever – and seven of them appeared in five games or fewer. 11 Aug 2023"

chicorytip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121097689#Comment_121097689

A few of those you mention may be employed by Premier League clubs but not as automatic first team selections. The rest are bog standard Championship level. Egan was poor, Doherty just jogged around looking unfit and uninterested, Ogbene can't finish gilt-edged chances. Still, we looked competitive for spells against Holland and France. Kenny deserves a little credit for that.

Iecrawfc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121099274#Comment_121099274

We should be beating them based on? Our players get an odd few minutes in the premier league and championship...when was the last time we had a regular starter for a champions league team? None of those teams are world beaters but neither are we unfortunately, regardless of what manager/tactics we employ.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121099151#Comment_121099151

I don't think the experiment was any harm a section of the media, a cohort of fans and the FAI themselves needed a reality check, and by jayus they got it.

I mean I felt like a bit of an eejit saying Dublin needed to look elsewhere after Dessie Farrell before this year etc etc. But at least there was some level of performance and evidence to back up my viewpoint - until Farrell brought back the auld lads and did a 180 holding back strong subs etc.

But the crowd that have been constantly talking up Kenny as some sort of soccer saviour, going on about turning corners, style of play, spinning everything into a positive must feel worse!?

Where was the evidence for all this positivity? There was none IMO it was based on nothing but 'hope'. That is and was the truth of it.

There was no previous indicator that Kenny was going to be a success, there was no real indicator that things were improving during the run of poor games. The media/pundits who backed Kenny to the hilt must feel like complete eejits?

Nevermind Kenny's credibility as a manager, how are these Kenny media pundits going to get any credibility back? They have to do it for a living! Or will they pretend it never happened?

Curse These Metal Hands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121099420#Comment_121099420

Can you break down the evidence that Roy Keane is the man to take us forward please?

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121099424#Comment_121099424

I already told you a few pages back - I would be repeating myself unnecessarily. Which proves you don't read replies too busy coming up with another logical fallacy, smart alec remark, or different emoji

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121097371#Comment_121097371

dxhound2005

How will the Norway manager explain their plight, with the best player in Europe in his team. Or the Poland manger, with the shocking results they are getting?

jiltloop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121097689#Comment_121097689

Agreed, he really looks clueless and out of his depth. That interview was very awkward and cringey, he didn't know what to be saying.

Curse These Metal Hands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121099429#Comment_121099429

I read that post, that's your evidence? "He's Irish and will likely take the job" "he knows different tactics"

I was looking for a more detailed reasoning, from a footballing perspective, why you think he's the man. What did he display at Sunderland or Ipswich, over 10 years ago, tactically that is suited to this particular group of players?

You're well able to wheel out videos of Big Jack talking about putting teams under pressure, or Jose Mourinho masterclasses, so let's give Roy the same treatment.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121099450#Comment_121099450

Read it again, I suggest. If you were to hire someone in an interview you look at their CV their achievements. experience. Their way of thinking, their fit for the job. Their passion. Their profile and so on. The level of recompense they would likely require.

All of which point to Roy Keane IMO . But yet again you cherry pick a a point and twist it. You really enjoy sophism to distract from real debate.

Namely, this time it was the fact that he is Irish and likely to take the job - that you sneered at in a vain attempt to be facetious. Implying it was main tenet of my argument.

But it is an important point in reality as the Irish job is not an attractive job at the moment

People without any Irish connection will not have much interest in it. The seeding will be low. The pay will be poor. And for the likes of you the expectation will be high I assume. I would argue it has to be an old head who takes on this job next.

As if the FAI go on the cheap for a young manager with little or no experience, it could kill that man's managerial career/football profile before it has even begun.

Curse These Metal Hands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121099478#Comment_121099478

It's much shorter to say "I don't know." None of that relates to the question I asked you. What will he change about the team, to improve performances? What tweaks would he make tactically, based on evidence of his past managerial style? You repeatedly throw out useless soundbites, like Brian Kerr being a great manager who failed very impressively, Keane is not tied ideology, let's get an old head to steady the ship, then run away when actually challenged on it.

Everyone is entitled to be critical of Kenny based on the results. But if the best you can do is point to Brian Kerr as an example of how things should be, then say Roy Keane is the man to replicate it, then I don't know what to say.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121099485#Comment_121099485

I already told you but those hands are obviously blocking most of the page.

Keane is a practical man. Is is not wedded to philosophy. Unlike Kenny. Kenny was a dreamer which is why he has a ceiling as a manager - LOI or underage players. A level which does not require much tactical nous.

Roy Keane, has worked with players at the same level or lower than the current crop. Keane will move away from the dreamland type of chat that Kenny exposed, and the media lapped up.

The evidence is all there in his body of work as a club manager, club player, international player international manager. Roy Keane sets standards - but yet does not complicate the game. He is also articulate in the media and can get his point across. Drive and experience that is what Keane will bring.

If you watch how Keane analyses games. He picks out the small details, normally the simple origin of an error. Which is what the players need, soccer is not a complicated game. And these players are very green they need leadership. Some one to look up to.

Keane does not speak in the 'between the lines' mumbo jumbo that modern managers do, to try and sound clever. The message will be simple - similar to his two previous managers he played under Clough and Ferguson.

I note you like asking questions but are very slow to give solutions - which speaks a lot as to your mindset.

Do you not think experience and age counts? Would you let an apprentice plumber fix a leak? Also you are incorrect on Kerr failing. He not get the proper chance he deserved, and he was pushed out by a cohort of fans.

If you call Kerr's tenure a 'failure' what would you term Kenny's as?

Also there are very few managers who leave a job in football on their own terms. So using your logic 95% of football managers are failures?

Curse These Metal Hands

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121099504#Comment_121099504

Sounds like he'll do an amazing job, let's just ignore his terrible job at Ipswich and his terrible man management skills.

Brian Kerr absolutely failed, his record and style was perfectly outlined above by another poster, @Snooker Loopy, which you just ignored. Look at the team he had, and we finished below Israel despite leading them in both games and butchering it. Not to mention huffing and puffing against lesser nations. We finished fourth in the group.

Do you really not see the hypocrisy in saying that Brian Kerr wasn't given a chance and needed more time despite bad results? Replace the word Kerr, with Kenny and you sound exactly like the Kenny cult you hate so much. The only difference is, Brian Kerr wasted a golden chance with a great crop of players. And you accuse me of logical fallacy.

Kenny has overall been a disappointment, but he had a much more difficult job than Brian Kerr. That's all I'll say on it, because you'll just run away and then repeat to someone else later on about the Brian Kerr glory days and his style that was so well suited to tournament football.