Cult of Stephen Kenny

Thelonious Monk

I really don't know why people think we should be getting results against Greece away. They have a good league, a proper football culture, teams in the CL every year, Euro champs in 2004, good stadiums, a bigger population. We can only dream of being anywhere near that kind of a football country.

AdrianG08

Stephen Kenny is unfortunately not at the level required to manage at international level. He is not at the level to manage at the top level. Pains me to say it, but its absolutely true.

I'll preface this (as it seems for some reason to be important what side of the fence we sit) by saying I am a LOI fan, love going to live games, regular at the Aviva for international games, yada yada....

The FAI have a body of work that needs to be completed in order to set Irish football on the right track for the next 20 years. They need to fight for every penny of funding they can to raise the standard of football in this country, they need to fight tooth and **** nail on this. THAT is their number 1 job. All this talk of implementing a passing style of football etc.. is absolute lip service, this requires a journey, implementing it with the senior team should be the destination, albeit the culmination of years of changing the culture at underage level.

Millions of euro need to be spent on infrastructure, stadia, training facilities, academies, the league in general, coaching etc... and only then will the work start in terms of us being on a level pegging with countries of similar size.

In terms of management of the men's senior international team, this is where some peoples interest in Irish football begins and ends. Sack Kenny and we are anti LOI, keep him on and he will drag us into the doldrums.

In my opinion, the deeper issues with our game need to be sorted, I'd have been happy to retain Kenny provided our seeding wasn't starting to slide, I do not expect him to qualify for major championships given our playing personnel (the worst in my lifetime), nor do I expect him to change the entire playing style/footballing philosophy of Irish football. Its unrealistic. But as soon as we start giving away 2-3 campaigns on the back of supposedly "developing the next generation" (baring in mind we reverted to Shane Duffy at CB and Jimmy McClean at LWB the other night) then we are in thin ground. Before we know it we will be 4th or 5th seeds for qualifying for these major tournaments.

The next managers remit should be to properly start to build a squad, whilst even if we don't qualify, we don't finish any lower than comfortably 3rd in our group. More importantly, is the development of a plan for Irish football for the next 20 years, that includes both public and private funding to drag our football philosophy and economy into the 21st century.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101356#Comment_121101356

It is a combination of all the results as a whole. Koeman did Kenny tactically. Kenny did not know how to respond and when he did it was too late.

Ireland had a great chance of beating Holland, a gift of start. But like the pattern of many Kenny matches in the heat of battle he faded along with his team later in games. That game management has to come from the sideline.

Look at the team that beat Germany 1-0 in 2015.

https://us.soccerway.com/matches/2015/10/08/europe/european-championship-qualification/ireland-republic/germany/1653352/

It was no great shakes on paper - defenders are arguably better now. Plus Robbie Keane did not get on the pitch - his career was winding down.

Also look at Mick's record in qualifying -

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UEFA_Euro_2020_qualifying

He only lost one game that was only 3 years ago - yet Kenny threw all the young players in tried to get a new style of play (the players are not suited to) and expected to have better results.

I think this the players are not there is over egged. If a decent manager set him his team tactically correctly there is a chance of qualifying - other teams with far less standard of players Northern Ireland, Finland, North Macedonia, Slovakia, Iceland, etc have qualified for tournaments.

There is also the extra chance of qualifying via the nations league etc, and more play off places, a bigger tournament. It has never been easier to qualify for tournaments in the history of football.

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101356#Comment_121101356

But we didn't even show up. That could easily have been a 4-1 defeat. It's not as if we went there and hit the woodwork three times and had a penalty saved.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101116#Comment_121101116

They have better players in certain positions but they're winning their group while we're near the bottom in ours, that wide of a gap is down to management.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101153#Comment_121101153

I listed them already. A while host of players have made breakthroughs in the last few seasons.

As already pointed out, Scotland are better in some positions but they are overachieving, with us coming near the bottom of most groups, we are underachieving. Just like Scotland were before Clarke took over. Hopefully getting a new manager in can change things.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101356#Comment_121101356

How come we thought we should get results against countries like Greece prior to Kenny being in charge? You were critical of previous managers, why weren't you using these excuses for them?

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101484#Comment_121101484

didn't we go years without beating a higher ranking team away from home before SK?

osarusan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101356#Comment_121101356

Which of those actually matter on the pitch though? And they haven't had a club in the CL since 2020-21.

Of the 11 who started against us in Greece, they had 3 in the PL, though 1 has never played a PL league game, 1 in italy (never played a league game there), and the rest are either in Greece or in Turkey.

In general, their football infrastructure is far far more developed than ours, but their squad is no more impressive than ours. This is indicated by their FIFA ranking of 50, compared to ours of 53.

It was a good barometer of us as a side - perhaps the only one of the group, given how far below and above us the other teams are - and we performed miserably.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101513#Comment_121101513

We lost to Greece. How come you expected a win away against Georgia in McCarthy's campaign?

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101275#Comment_121101275

You hit the nail on the head. I think people are starting to think the Ireland Senior managers job is like working for the Civil Service. Not much accountability and you have to do something really bad to get sacked, or be told that you should move on.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101566#Comment_121101566

They were ranked a good bit below us at the time and we had a better team in 2017. It wasn't the draw that annoyed me about that game anyway it was how we made Georgia look like Brazil 1970, they had something like 80% possession.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101306#Comment_121101306

They would hand slips of paper to fellas coming on in the past, now they probably use ipads! The fellas nearest the manager are more likely to get 'instruction' to give to other players

I can still remember Mick McCarthy in his first stint with Ireland, what seemed like a constant 'HAAAARRRRTY HAAARRRTY' to Ian Harte.

The fella in the stand with an ear piece would make more sense, better overall view of pitch than the manager.

Gatling

I'm honestly surprised he hasn't resigned,

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101605#Comment_121101605

We played Georgia under McCarthy in October 2019. Our team was:

Randolph Coleman Duffy Egan Doherty Whelan Hourihane Robinson Hendrick McClean Collins

Why did you expect to beat Georgia then? Why was McCarthy lambasted for drawing over there?

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101644#Comment_121101644

I was talking about the MON 2017 game, I can't even remember the Mick one but I imagine he was lambasted because people think we are a better football nation than the likes of Georgia, although that team looks so poor to me, Hourihane was so bad always. People forget that it's not the 90s any more and we shouldn't really expect to be beating anyone. The rest of Europe caught up, big time, Georgia have that Kvaratskhelia guy now who's the Eastern Messi.

Mysterypunter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121095464#Comment_121095464

Sure is, sad situation, just keeps getting worse

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101660#Comment_121101660

Yes but I asked about McCarthy's game. The excuses you and others were making didn't wash under previous managers. The team McCarthy had definitely wasn't great, we have a better team now. But somehow he made us competitive and we nearly qualified. That's a Mick McCarthy who was well past his sell by date.

I don't think it's outlandish to expect us to be competitive in qualification groups. And I think we will be with a decent manager. Soon, hopefully the Kenny reign will be a sad memory like the Staunton reign.

DeanAustin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101625#Comment_121101625

Would you walk away from a gig where you're earning 550k a year especially if you had no chance of earning it in another role?

No way should he walk. The FAI have a contract with him. He is entitled to see it out. I actually think with Kenny, he genuinely believes he can turn it around and is very well intentioned. But I really don't understand why football fans trot out this line about people resigning and walking away from the money they're entitled to.

osarusan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101713#Comment_121101713

Agreed.

Well, disagree in that I don't think even Kenny believes he can turn it round, but he's dead right to let on that he can and see his contract out, or else get let go and paid off.

Gatling

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101713#Comment_121101713

He's entitled,well no he's in a job and gotten us next to no where,he's has three years of achieving nothing, nothing and nothing again ,he needs to do the right thing they got rid of Vera pauw after getting the women's senior team to a world cup ,and yet he's sitting there making excuses,he hasn't the ability to motivate the current and previous squads, time for him to walk away and admit he's failed and wasn't up to the task in the first place or they boot him out ,

€540,000 pa for several years achieving absolutely nothing sorry he's entitled to hang his head in shame

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121100889#Comment_121100889

As with a lot of fans Dunphy saw 10,000 passes among our back four against Gibraltar and thought he was watching Messi-Iniesta-Xavi-et al at Barcelona. It was all bluff. All style and no substance. . . . and a style which better teams easily exposed.

DeanAustin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101752#Comment_121101752

The FAI signed a contract with him. He is entitled to be paid for the length of that contract. That is not even up for debate.

He's not been an awful manager in my view. He's come up short consistently. But, for me, he's always been within touching distance of acceptable and just fallen short. As Sadlier said "they always find a way to lose". Kenny's a good manager, just not good enough. However, even if he was absolutely incompetent, he's still entitled to be paid for his contract. I wouldn't walk away from it and neither would you.

boccers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101695#Comment_121101695

We have potentially a better team now but that potential has to be realised first. Until then it is only potential. That 2019 team was not good but was full of experienced internationals and also had a number of leaders throughout the team particularly Coleman. I don't think we can overstate how big a loss he is in a leadership sense. Who would the experienced leaders of the team the other night be? Duffy and Egan? Both centre backs. McClean? Wing back. Nothing further forward. Cullen, Knight, Browne, Idah, Ogbene. Would any of them strike you as experienced? Maybe Browne but not really at international level.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101625#Comment_121101625

If Kenny lost the next 50 matches he wouldn't resign. In fact he'd tell you he's hoping to finish the 51st match strong.

CorkRed93

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101356#Comment_121101356

the result in greece wasnt the issue for me. the performance, after a long camp in turkey beforehand, left too much to be desired. if thats what we serve up after he has a long time with them then we really have no hope imo.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101625#Comment_121101625

Wouldn't Kenny lose money if he resigned? If so, I think that is the only reason he is staying.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101765#Comment_121101765

Kenny has had Coleman for most of his reign! McCarthy didn't have Coleman in his last match against Denmark yet we absolutely battered them.

Also, another myth about Kenny needs to be counteracted. He didn't start out bringing through young players. He basically picked McCarthy's team up until we lost to Luxembourg. He then changed his tune and said he was building for 2024. This lie has been repeated by his supporters since and got him a new contract.

Well look where that has left us, nowhere close to qualification and only an outside chance of even getting a playoff.

US3

Not thinking Kenny is good enough doesn't mean we want hoofball jesus it really is a cult

DeanAustin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121101843#Comment_121101843

A lot of opinions on this are ridiculously extreme...

"It's either Kenny or hoofball..."

"No one could have gotten better results than Kenny with those players..."

"Kenny is absolutely clueless..."

"The LOI is a pub league..."