Cult of Stephen Kenny

ceegee

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121249219#Comment_121249219

Our current crop of players aren't good enough to finish 2nd in a group unless we draw a high ranked team that is on the downside.

Nations League is realistically our best bet of a playoff place

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250235#Comment_121250235

Plenty of players available. I don't buy this players are not there argument.

I looked a post I made a while ago went through the side Kenny named v the Dutch and the a few who would have played if fit/selected -

English Premier League - O'Shea, Coleman*, Egan, Doherty, Ogbene, Cullen, Ferguson*, Obafemi, Kelleher (9)

English Championship - Bazunu, Duffy, Browne, Knight, Idah, Smallbone, Armstrong, Manning, Hendrick, Molumby, W. Keane*, Coventry*, Robinson* (13)

English League Two - McClean

Serie A - Ebosele

SPL - McGrath

It does not THAT bad - a core of a higher English championship type side or Lower Premier League.

It made me think is this current Kenny ROI squad worse than NI who qualified for Euro 2016?

--

So I looked at the NI team that qualified for Euro 2016 for a bit of contrast.

A team which lost 1-0 to Germany. (which was real backs to the wall) not one for the 'purists'

https://www.whoscored.com/Matches/1035167/Live/International-European-Championship-2016-Northern-Ireland-Germany

Also beat Ukraine 2-0 and lost to Poland 1-0 - narrowly making the knock outs of a tournament proper

At that time:

English Premier League - McGovern, Cathcart, McAuley, Davis, J.Evans (5)

English Championship - McGovern, Lafferty, Dallas, Norwood, C.Evans, Ward, Baird (7)

League One - McLaughlin, McCullough, Grigg (3)

League Two - Carroll

SPL - McGinn, Magennis, Mannus (3)

A-League - Hughes

--

So it looks to me that the current ROI 2023 squad is at least a better squad on paper than NI was in 2016.

And although Will Grigg was "on fire" I don't think he even started much!

--

Looking at the Martin O'Neill ROI team from 2016 to see how much 'better' it was to both NI 2016 and ROi 2023, should be interesting just as an overview

English Premier League - Coleman, Clark, O'Shea, Whelan, McCarthy, Hoolahan, Long, Walters, Ward, Given, Brady, Randolph, (12)

English Championship - Westwood, Keogh, McGeady, Duffy, Hendrick, Meyler, Murphy, Christie, Quinn (9)

MLS - R. Keane

Overall midtable to lower type English PL, to higher English Championship I would say?

--

So I would argue that it is more how the players are structured moulded and managed. Rather than the players themselves. A manager can make a big difference to a side.

--

Also it has to be remember that the chances of qualifying have been expaneded for tournaments more chances to qualify for tournaments in the history of the game of football.

--

mascher8933

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250512#Comment_121250512

You name 9 Premier League league players yet 7 of them are not regulars for their team

From the 2016 team 11 out of 12 were regular starters

The decline is obvious and needs to be addressed. If and when Luton, Sheff Utd and Burnley get relegated, we will be down to 1 player (Ferguson) being a realistic Premier League player

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250552#Comment_121250552

O'Shea (has broke into Burnley's starting 11), Coleman (regular when fit) Egan (regular) Doherty (not regular), Ogbene ( has broke into the Luton team), Cullen (regular), Ferguson (regular), Obafemi (not regular/injured), Kelleher (not regular), Collins (in more than out of the starting 11),

Don't forget with the money and the worldwide scouting involved with the Premier League, it's harder than ever to breakthrough. Players who were at lower Premier League teams in the past, would be in championship teams now.

With players like Bazunu, Ebolese, Scales, Knight, Smallbone, Idah, Moran, Armstrong and players like that playing in decent teams and most of them young with lots of room for improvement, we actually aren't too badly off. It's not all doom and gloom.

Look at Greece, they don't have a better squad than us, their manager is paid about the same as ours and they have this group a real good go. A decent manager and we'd be the same. Our last manager had us competing with a worse squad than we currently have.

We've collapsed under the current manager but a good Nations league campaign with a competent manager and we can get second seeds for the World Cup draw. The next appointment is vital. Kenny was Delaney's last appointment. Time for a new, exciting and optimistic era to begin.

JeffreyEpspeen

*Stephen Kenny has 60 seconds to detonate a bomb or else thousands of people will die; he is on the phone with a bomb disposal expert*

"Stephen, what colour are the wires?"

*Stares blankly*

"Em... you know... one is..... green..... you know.... em....."

"Stephen, hurry"

"Kind of emerald green.... another is.... you know.... em.... yellow... the thi..."

EXPLOSION

💥💣

CorkRed93

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250512#Comment_121250512

cant take anyone seriously who thinks doherty is still a PL level player. dont care if he signed with united in the morning hes useless.. he was abysmal in this window and looks like a lad who is finished. far too many middle of the road championship players on the squad now. think that mid table champ level has gone backwards in recent years too.

we need at least 2 cms from somewhere fast. we need 2 full backs aswell. what id give for 2 of scotlands cms

NI really did punch above their weight but the PL now compared to 2016 is a totally different animal.

pgj2015

Agree on Doherty, you can see he has the skill but he is lazy for Ireland, he never runs with the ball, always walks with it or stands still and mostly plays very short passes.

JeffreyEpspeen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121251000#Comment_121251000

What would you expect from a man from Dublin who refers to himself as British?

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250955#Comment_121250955

It not the point whether Doherty is a good player he plays regulary in the EPL so obviously someone does. Not only that Atletico saw fit to loan him as cover, how many Irish Internationals have played in La Liga?

Plus look at the Wales team and Scotland.Would they be considered miles better then the Irish side?

My point is I believe it is less to do with the players and more the manager. As there is a certain level of quality of player there that SHOULD be enough to qualify for tournaments or at least come close to it. I mean the organisers trying to make it easier to qualify for tournaments after all. I know there is all the historical FAI stuff, lack of LOI support from fans, no LOI academies etc. But Ireland always has alright players, championship English level mostly with a few EPL here and there.

What is here and now there should be enough for a decent manager to work with. The only problem is that because of Kenny (a poor manager) Ireland's seeding will take a hammering. Making it more of a challenge for the next fella.

CorkRed93

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121251051#Comment_121251051

doherty played 16 mins of la liga football (mendes got him the deal ) and hes made 4 apps from the bench for wolves this season. the lad is terrible seriously dont get how its even up for debate. he was embarrassing last night for one of the goals. ogbene slowing the game down completely to point to doherty to continue his run in behind ffs basic stuff for a 31 year old PL player. compare doherty as a pl sub to tsimikas at lpool. the difference was night and day in both the ties v them

scotland are definitely better than us both player wise and manager wise. if we had mctominay and gilmour we'd be laughing. we should be competing in groups no doubt about it we didnt in this qualification group. sorry but mid table championship players in midfield wont cut it at this level as we've seen for 4 years now. we've got fergie but he cant do it all on his own. collins has been really poor this season too , another guy who looked like he had great potential.

not really sure how much going from 3 to 4 will make a difference tbh. if we make the right appointment we should be winning games as a 4 seed as we''ve the players according to you.

reclose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121250277#Comment_121250277

Finally some sense.

reclose

Some of the comments about Kenny seem to be way out of whack. It almost seems personal.

Who would you get in to replace him? What system suits the current squad?

I haven’t seen any of the critics answer those questions yet.

Rather than hurl abuse let’s turn it into a constructive chat.

gormdubhgorm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121251158#Comment_121251158

Fairly obvious defensive high energy direct (not hoofing it for the sake of it,) and counter attacking - Ireland have a lot of fast players. No passing from side to side making it easy to play against that has been the biggest downfall of the Kenny era IMO.

Roy Keane the obvious candidate if he wants it in my opinion. Managerial experience and the highest profile Irishman (who won't want a fortune) with a half decent CV.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121251273#Comment_121251273

I like Roy. But i wouldnt touch him for management. Hes a liability in the dugout and i think it would turn toxic fast.

Carsley should be aporoached first. At least ask the guy the question.

roosterman71

This taking the piss out of his way of speaking is uncalled for. There's enough ammunition on the football side without resorting to personal piss-taking of the man.

JeffreyEpspeen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121251901#Comment_121251901

What does he say at half-time when we're losing (which is 95% of the time)? It takes him about five minutes to complete a sentence FFS. Ever watch him on the sidelines during a game? No signs of in-game management whatsoever. Just stands there slack jawed for ninety minutes. Every single game, changes are made when the game has already passed us by or, at best, is in the process of passing us by. It's reactive and not proactive management. And for the princely sum he's been paid, it's not good enough. At least pay for some public speaking lessons.

FFS he reminds me of me doing presentations in college in front of fit birds in the front row. No composure out of him whatsoever. It's awkward and embarrassing to watch.

gmisk

So the player Kenny said was in process of signing up for Ireland is seemingly...Kasey McAteer, could be really terrific, ripping it up in the championship this year.

Musicrules

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121251158#Comment_121251158

Kenny is the worst manager we've had in over 40 years. His reign has been horrendous. Previous managers received huge abuse despite doing far better jobs than Kenny. He's got off really lightly, I see very little abuse of him. People are more angry with the FAI, the media and some supporters for getting him a new contract when he was clearly way out of his depth.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121251990#Comment_121251990

How would public speaking lessons improve the team’s performances, FFS?

roosterman71

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121251990#Comment_121251990

Pulling the piss out of his speech issues isn't grounds for criticism. There's enough there in the performances and results without resorting to childish school yard piss taking.

JeffreyEpspeen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252229#Comment_121252229

Have you listened to the man talk? How on earth would he motivate anyone or command any respect from players playing in the PL and Championship? He's building a rod for his own back with these interviews with the media. Talking about aiming to win groups and generally spouting absolute shite. He should definitely have invested in some lessons. Loads of managers do it. It's 2023. Being able to communicate is a requisite in lots of lines of work - especially in the football industry.

JeffreyEpspeen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252151#Comment_121252151

It's probably someone playing for Dorking Wanderers. And the usual headbangers on YBIG will no doubt be jizzing themselves in excitement at the latest cause celebre.

Allinall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252263#Comment_121252263

I have listened to him talk.

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252270#Comment_121252270

You've quoted a post that literally tells you who it is lol.

JeffreyEpspeen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252294#Comment_121252294

Ah. I see he's using us as leverage over England.

JeffreyEpspeen

I can't wait for Kenny to pump his fists and jump up and down and grab John O'Shea and pull him into a kiss when we get a last minute equaliser against New Zealand in the friendly next month courtesy of a Callum Robinson penalty after Mikey Johnston trips over his own feet in the 6 yard box.

Strumms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121251158#Comment_121251158

Frustration. People are frustrated with him and loosing respect for him. I think comments here mostly are proportionate to the results his teams have gotten under him, their performances, his performances, In addition his basically muttering and stuttering bûllshit to the media after bad results…. Tony O’Donohue is just short of fûcking a microphone at his head, Kenny has the poor guy driven demented in post match interviews….the average viewer can’t be far off.

with a record like he has with Ireland the decent and responsible thing would be for him now to go to the FAI and resign. We are not qualifying and it would be perfect to bring in a new manager and new team…now… be ready, practised and prepared to face the new campaign… without pressure…

Kenny has had backing, opportunity and time… 3+ years, 2 campaigns…..if he was sacked tonight he or any supporters of his would have no reason to complain… the results and stats show his reign as a failure. The team is not trending upwards in terms of either performances or results…. It’s status quo, still crap a watch, still crap results, still failure, still going nowhere, fast.

Who replaces him ? Why do his critics need to answer that ? Kenny has lost more games then he’s won as manager…there are no shortages of suitable and qualified candidates….

JeffreyEpspeen

Podge and Rodge head on him.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121252340#Comment_121252340

Name him in the next squad depending on paperwork. That will show is his intentions.

Motivator

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121245433#Comment_121245433

I’m not a football manager, so I’m not in any way qualified to offer any ideas. My managerial experience is limited to an u-15 cup win a couple of years ago. I know this achievement puts me on a par with Stephen Kenny but I’m reluctant to offer my assistance to the FAI.