Cult of Stephen Kenny

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119173956#Comment_119173956

What has Kenny done in the Irish dugout to still have disciplines fawning over him?? Obafemi hasn’t made previous squads because of Kenny. Not anyone else. Not his form, he’s one of the only Irish players scoring. Just Kenny

Thelonious Monk

Stop trying to make Chris Hughton happen. He is a dinosaur and he has been found out everywhere he's gone. We have no good players, there's some potential but no one really is a top player. Scotland and Wales have a few each and that's why they're doing better than us now.

We can try and play football or try and grind out draws as we had been doing since the class of 2002 got too old. I'd rather we just gave up playing football than to go back to the MON and Trap and Mick 2 days.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174452#Comment_119174452

That's only partially correct to be totally transparent about it.

Masch8933

It is amazing the entitlement that some Irish people who follow the Irish team have!

What gives Ireland the divine right to think they should beat Armenia. Armenia have defeated Iceland, Romania, Greece, Bosnia and North Macedonia recently. These are teams at Irelands level and higher.

Do people not realize that the neglect of the game by John Delaney over the last 20 years as lead to this point and Ireland have not produced a quality player who can hold their own in the premiership in a long time. The squad is of a average championship quality, yeah some people still look at Ireland and think we should be competing with better nations.

It doesnt matter if it is Kenny or Klopp in charge, the results would not change because you cant just go out and buy new players.

Fred Astaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174472#Comment_119174472

Chris Hughton was not "found out everywhere he's gone".

That is such complete bollux. Every club he has left were greatly improved from when he took them over, barring Forest.

He has one failure on his CV - the Forest job.

Kenny got Dunfermline relegated, never hear anything about that. He took LOI champions Shamrock Rovers to 4th and got booted for it.

Don't know why I'm arguing with some utter armchair idiot who would rather not play football - than have to suffer through competing in international tournaments and play-offs. Some going when we have no good players.

What the f*ck do you even mean by saying we can try to play football or try and grind out draws - it isn't one or the other. And certainly anything that Kenny is doing isn't working. I'm also interested in what your definition of football is - passing it around the back for extended portions of the game? Riveting stuff.

The problem isn't Stephen Kenny. The problem (or question, rather) is why aren't we producing top quality players anymore? Where are the next Keane's, Irwin's, McGrath's, etc?

Something has gone south at grassroots level. Our current team is shite, it doesn't matter who coaches us.

Fred Astaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174543#Comment_119174543

We should beat Armenia because we have better players than Armenia. Glad I could clear that up for you.

The Championship is a better league than many European top flight leagues. Even if we were to use this as a guide - Championship rated as the 11th best league in the world. https://www.globalfootballrankings.com/ Can't quite find the Armenian league on there where a bunch of their players play - wierd.

Why would it not matter if Kenny or Klopp was in charge? You think managers have 0 impact on their teams? Why even have them at all? You expect identical results with a League of Ireland veteran vs a Premier League, Bundesliga, Champions League winning manager? Christ what an embarrassing comment.

Thelonious Monk

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174595#Comment_119174595

I mean like you're getting a bit angry there with the name calling etc over a discussion about football, relax ffs.

Fred Astaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174642#Comment_119174642

Based on absolutely nothing.

Try a different sport because you haven't a clue about this one.

If you want to provide some sort of argument as to why that will be the case, fire away. I'm sure it'll be riveting.

Gusser09

We'll see after tonight's game. Hopefully we win. If not there could be a lot of LOI Kenny fans quiet here tonight and tomorrow. Out of another group in the early stages.

I really feel Kenny needs 4 points at the very least over the next 2 games or as Ive said it's a long road to 2024. That's what losing to Armenia does to you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174472#Comment_119174472

false dichotomy between "**** football" and "results" serves neither side of the argument

Hughton is decent, and would most likely do a better job than Kenny.

But the manager isn't the issue, imo. It's the country's ability to produce talent. Something has gone rotten in Ireland.

Fred Astaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174599#Comment_119174599

The problem is Stephen Kenny.

There other problem is quite easy to explain. A criminal ran the FAI into the ground, neglected underage football in this country and outsourced development of our young players to a different league.

That league has since become the richest league in the world, the most competitive league in the world and Irish players are having to compete with people from nationalities they never had to before for a place. It means that they aren't breaking through like they did before, and are often breaking through at a lower level when they do so.

That will take time to correct. But Stephen Kenny certainly has nothing to do with it. His job is to win senior mens international football matches, and he is failing spectacularly.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174673#Comment_119174673

only if you are saying we have worse talent than armenia, qatar etc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174687#Comment_119174687

I'm not concerned in the slightest with the short term, because the longer trend is what worries me most. That's the part that you seem to be oblivious to even though I couldn't have been clearer. But I'll try again.

We had a talented squad in the 90s, with underage teams performing well or winning international tournaments, with that generation (Duff, Keane, etc) feeding the senior squad.

Now look at us. A very poor squad and not much coming through. Certainly no Robbie Keane's or Duffs are coming.

This means we are in a long term decline, perhaps for decades to come. This is the issue I'm more concerned about.

Do you understand my point now? I'm predicting a straw man response. Let's see what happens.

rob316

You need pragmatism and flexibility to be an international manager and definitely when you are dealt a poor level of standard. You can go out and buy players at club level to suit how you want to play, you can't at international level. He is hopelessly out of his depth

The Irish national team have the most deluded bunch of supporters you'll come across though. Trapattoni was hounded out for his style of play yet he was the most successful manager in decades. You have clowns like Dunphy then thinking we should be playing like Pep's Barcelona.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174655#Comment_119174655

well it’s not based on absolutely nothing. He took notts forest to bottom of the table. Now there in the PL. his record before that was respectable but nothing that would lead you to believe he can add much to Ireland

ArnoldJRimmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174714#Comment_119174714

Trap came in 7 years after we last qualified for a WC. He still had prime PL players from our last golden generation. He embarrassed the country at Euro 2012 before losing 6-1 at home to Germany. Hardly hounded out

osarusan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174723#Comment_119174723

That's why the poster said it was complete rubbish to say he's been found out everywhere he has been. He hasn't at all. Forest was his one obvious failure, and they mentioned that

Apart from that Hughton did pretty well with clubs, and he ended up being one of those managers whose pragmatic style of play makes it look like he's the one limiting the club's progress so they get rid of him, only to find out, as Newcastle did and Norwich did, that things would get worse after he was gone.

Now I don't think Hughton is anything amazing. But there is no footballing criterion on which he could be compared to Kenny that he wouldn't come out on top. If you are looking for a guy to overhaul a national side and instill a passing culture, Hughton isn't near the top of my list...but he's still higher up than Kenny.

As a manager, you can't ask any more of a manager (and shouldn't expect any less) than that they maximise the resources at their disposal. Now this set of players is nothing special, but they are still not bad enough that losing to Armenia, Luxembourg, and drawing with Azerbaijan aren't diabolical results. Kenny is more likely to fail to get the best out of them than he is to succeed, and each potential 'turn the corner' moment is followed by a return to the pits.

Fred Astaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174723#Comment_119174723

He has one failure which I have already referenced. Most managers end up with a failure on their CV. Stephen Kenny has two failures at a level universes lower than Hughton.

The other jobs he managed he was a success in.

He got Newcastle promoted and safely in Premier League mid table when he left. Birmingham beaten in play-offs in a season where he had Europa League football to contend with (while in the Championship). Knocked out of group stage with almost an unheard of points total - 10 points. Moved to Norwich where he had them 11th in his first season and was on track to avoid relegation again when he left. Norwich have been immediately relegated when they returned to the Premier League every time since Hughton.

Moved to Brighton where he got them promoted and survived in the Premier League for 2 seasons. Left before Dan Ashworth joined and revolutionised their transfer policy, which it took Potter 3 years to benefit from. Potter was no improvement on Hughton for 2 years.

Anyone saying he is a bad manager is a complete and utter bluffer who should be ignored.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174775#Comment_119174775

Newcastle finished fifth the season after Hughton went. The relegation came much later.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174713#Comment_119174713

no need to get condescending. you are raising an irrelevancy in the thread and offering it to the thread as if it were the topic

that's not strawman responding from me. thats a friendly redirection towards the point of the thread.

if i were on a thread about ireland not producing players like we did when our best lads played in top english clubs (which were populated almost totally by players from the british isles at that time) then great lets talk

the complexities about the changes since then in the english and international games would make for an interesting debate- certainly there'd be more in it than 'irish players got much worse and that's that'

but the question isn't that, its whether stephen kenny is doing enough with the players he has relative to similarly resourced (playing squad wise) international managers

that you cant keep to that point makes you the strawman here, and the idea that its anyone else struggling to stay clear on things is alas a reflection maybe on your own struggles on that score, a mhic

"you are raising an irrelevancy in the thread"

Talking about the lack of talent in Irish grassroots football is irrelevant in a thread about Irish football.

Only on the internet would you see something so nonsensical.

Gusser09

I think people criticising Hughton's achievements and career yet defending Kenny need to do some research.

Look I think we all wanted Kenny to be successful but the main issue seems to be his reluctance to try something different in terms of formation and style. There is zero wrong with going direct or route one as long as it's not aimless.

As I've stated umpteen times we need to be beating the weaker teams in groups in order to remain in with a shout at the business end of things. It's utterly appalling that we could be out of this group by this evening.

Did you smash it

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174779#Comment_119174779

Well the players at notts forest wanted shut of hughton and no mistake.

Fred Astaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174811#Comment_119174811

They finished in identical positions for 2 years after sacking him. Potter finished 15th and 16th.

This year they made it to 9th.

Time will tell if that was a one off.

Hardly the improvement that you are intimating it is. It certainly wasn't immediate and Potter has had the luxury of working with Dan Ashworth to identify a better standard of player. So much so that Newcastle headhunted Ashworth to oversee their playing staff transformation over the next few years.

Fire Kenny and get Hughton in. It would probably improve results a little. Perhaps stop us from losing vital seeding.

But the root of the problem isn't the manager, it's our inability to produce top talent compared to twenty years ago. The grassroots is destroyed. Anyone who thinks this point isn't relevant needs their head checked.

Fred Astaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174857#Comment_119174857

Shame the Premier League table couldn't see it for 2 years.

Fred Astaire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174821#Comment_119174821

This thread is about the results of Stephen Kenny relative to the resources he has available to him, and those results are abysmal. Unacceptable, rubbish.

Nobody is unaware of our issues at grassroutes level and you aren't some sort of savant for repeatedly bringing them up.

They will take time to be addressed and fixed. We are just barely out of the clutches of a vile criminal.

Just because we have issues at grassroutes level, does not mean that we cannot be competitive at senior level, with the right manager in place. We are obviously not going to be as successful as teams managed by Jack and as good as teams containing Robbie Keane and Damien Duff, but there is a reasonable standard of player there which is enough to make play-offs and qualify for the odd tournament. There is no point waving the white flag for the next 30 years at senior level just because the grassroutes situation isn't ideal.

24 teams qualify for the European Championships. There is absolutely no reason why we shouldn't be amongst them in 2024. Except there is a reason, Stephen Kenny is his name.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119174846#Comment_119174846

relevant to another thread lad. read the title of this one again, maybe check yr glasses yourself and dont be too worried about anyone else's head