Strange New Worlds 1x06 - 'Lift Us Where Suffering Cannot Reach' ~~ { ** Spoilers Within ** }

GSPfan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119182208#Comment_119182208

Yeah i noticed that not so subtle dig. I think you could reference a lot of things too. Sending young men to war would be another analogy. If you could achieve peace and prosperity by sacrificing one child would you do that over the alternative of disease and war and social problems killing thousands of kids.

PS. Boards bouncing the screen halfway up the page while I’m trying to post something is ridiculous. Every 20-15 seconds it happens.

Spear

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119182384#Comment_119182384

The bouncing thing is a known issue, there's a dedicated thread in Feedback:

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058245395/can-you-please-just-fix-the-bouncing

TheIrishGrover

Weakest episode so far for me too.... But that does not mean it was a weak episode.

The kid was great. Not annoying or all "Billy-Barry 'Actually it's like this' punchable", (Actually all the actors were great). His interactions to the crew was great.

It is a classic Sci-Fi trope: The utopia based on some (functional or superstitious) sacrifice of the innocent. But again, this is not a criticism. All genre shows use the same tropes from time to time (We have already had the body-swap and possessed tropes).

They are definitely going down the line of Uhura being an all-round genius as opposed to being just a linguistic one. And that makes sense. It's 2022. Can't have her just answering the phone. (I think I may have stolen that from Galaxy Quest).

So, for me, what I mean by the "weakest" in that it wasn't a barrel of delightful laughs. But that is actually OK. This is Trek. Not a comedy show. It is great, solid old-school Trek. Again, another ball hit out of the park.

They have NAILED this show. More. More. MORE!!!!!!!

Spoiler Warning

Did Pike say his accident happened in 7 years? Huh... That seems suspiciously like a standard Trek series run 😀

corkie

@TheIrishGrover Re spoiler: - SNW Timeline.

Spoiler Warning

SNW is not only a prequel to TOS, but it’s also a sequel to Discovery. When Pike’s Enterprise shows up on Star Trek: Discovery in its second season, the year is 2258. SNW takes place six months later, after the Enterprise has seemingly had another refit in spacedock. This places the show seven years before we meet Kirk and Spock in the TOS pilot “Where No Man Has Gone Before,” which takes place in 2265. Pre-established canon tells us that Pike commanded one more five-year mission before Kirk took the center seat, and before they promoted Pike to Fleet Captain.......

..... Regardless of the timeline, SNW is an absolute joy to watch. And its canonicity, or lack of it, shouldn’t deter viewers from enjoying a series that is the purest Trek the franchise has been in ages....... ~~ Link containing spoilers.

Alternative link Pike Timeline

Above links are examples of where the timeline is explained.

corkie

It is a classic Sci-Fi trope: The utopia based on some (functional or superstitious) sacrifice of the innocent.

https://stargate.fandom.com/wiki/Learning_Curve

'Blunty' compares it to above episode of SG-1, in his review. At first I thought he was referring to Cassandra but that has a different plot.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119182384#Comment_119182384

PS. Boards bouncing the screen halfway up the page while I’m trying to post something is ridiculous. Every 20-15 seconds it happens.

 I know tell me about it.

It's as annoying as hell.

You just want to post or read other posts and it trust to put you were you left of stupid thing so annoying. I really hope they sort it. I think they think it is helpful but it really is not.

pah

Strong episode IMO More great Star Trek 🙂

My only gripe would be if the father was that set on protecting his son at all costs then telling Pike the truth earlier would surely have been the way to go?

GSPfan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119186593#Comment_119186593

Yep. I suppose so. But it also may have ended in The Federation ordering Pike to not interfere.

pah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119186688#Comment_119186688

He would have been entitled to seek asylum I would imagine.

corkie

Plot/Script has been compared to the short story

"The Ones Who Walk Away From Omelas" by Ursula Le Guin

The Classic Sci-Fi Short Story You Should Read After This Week's Star Trek: Strange New Worlds

https://www.slashfilm.com/890618/the-classic-sci-fi-short-story-you-should-read-after-this-weeks-star-trek-strange-new-worlds/?utm_campaign=clip

.......have also pointed out that a similar idea is communicated in Fyodor Dostoevsky's "The Brothers Karamazov," meaning the concept explored in this week's "Trek" episode goes back at least until 1880.

This is a new script based upon an unused TOS script by Star Trek creator Gene Roddenberry.

Even IMDb links to it.

So who knows where Gene got the plot from?

An Ursula K. Le Guin Short Story Inspired The Big Mystery For ‘Star Trek: Discovery’ Season 3

Strange that they didn't give credit to the story for this episode?

breezy1985

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119186593#Comment_119186593

Pike is literally in bed with the enemy though so the father probably assumed Pike would sell him out.

PhiloCypher

I'm surprised this episode hasn't resulted in more discussion but it it can be an exercise in frustration posting here since the revamp so I guess it's understandable.

As to the episode, it wasn't quite the home run in terms of execution that the previous 5 had been but it made up for it by being so thematically rich. Do the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few or in this case a boy. The way it shines an uncomfortable light on the cultural inertia we see in our own society that see us just accept the suffering of a child working in a sweatshop as a price worth paying for cheap clothes or indeed dying in an elementary school shooting because to quote Alora "our founders set it up this way" and a few dead kids are a price we're willing to pay to keep our guns/the status quo.

The performances were top notch as usual, Anson Mount in particular running the gamut of emotions from excitment, at a romance Rekindled , hope, that the Majellans medicine could heal him should his fate come to pass , to horror finding out the horrible price the majallans are willing to pay for their utopian society and the part he played in the boys ultimate fate.

The faults I find is that due to the narrative choice of basically having us discover the dark secret of the Majellans at the same time as Pike we don't really get to see much of this utopian society, or have it explained to us like you would in TNG. In that show a majallan would have waxed lyrical about their society, their secret would have been discovered much earlier and their would have been more in depth debate and quoting of the prime directive by Picard and Co. In this its all kept secret till the final reel. You have to accept a lot for the allegory to work.

Overall tho 8/10

Sidenote. Wtf was with the corridor full of random boxes that the kid was hidden in. Do they not have cargo bays on this Enterprise?

~Rebel~

Only just got around to watching this now - love Ursula Le Guin, been my favorite author for 20 years, so quite happy to see a direct tribute to her here.

And another sign that there are some real sci fi fans on board the writing staff - that’s tributes to The Day the Earth Stood Still, Silent Running, and Le Guin now so far.

somuj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119190515#Comment_119190515

Was wondering that too. Seems a bit ridiculous.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119190515#Comment_119190515

I think a huge part of the storytelling was keeping it to be a more faithful adaptation of Le Guin’s own story - where the nature of the paradise is irrelevant, and it’s left up to you to imagine your own version of that paradise. Whatever you imagine to be the perfect society, that’s what this place was. Was clever to use the element of ‘free from all illness’ as a way to further two other storylines too.

id have liked a greater emphasis on those who walked away though, and seeing it as a more continuous thing, or a thing that happens around each ‘ascension’. Like seeing a little scattering of ships leave the planet to go to Prospect 7, and then learning why at the same time as Pike is learning from the woman.

Greyjoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119180804#Comment_119180804

That was definitely the biggest flaw of the episode - the fact that as a viewer you're just waiting for the other shoe to drop with the reveal of the sinister nature of the 'ascension'. I would have preferred if Pike had pushed back a little with a rebuttal to Alora's statement about children suffering in the Federation. There may well be children in pain or suffering within the Federation but unlike the Majellans they don't base their *entire society* around exploiting children.

AMKC

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210009#Comment_119210009

Yes me too. I was very dissapointed when he did not.

pixelburp

I think folks are being a tad unfair on Pike; how I read the scene was him being deeply disappointed and resigned to find himself having made a fatal error. His affection / horniness for Alora and eagerness to curry favour cost the child his life; literally delivering him to his doom.

And as Alora pointed out, he had no jurisdiction there, so what value was there in a "well, actually, we're great you suck" speech? It wasn't going to bring the kid back, wouldn't change anything - all he could do was leave. Maybe Picard would have got all high and mighty, but this was a wounded Captain retuning to his ship to think on things.

I thought this was a fine episode; definitely the least "fun" of the batch, and maybe not built off some grand, weighty concept, but still had a decent mystery that unraveled at an entertaining pace. And all this chatter of how obvious the twist was makes me feel dumb; I didn't see it coming. I knew something was up, but didn't twig the sacrafice angle.

I'd call this was solid, mid-season filler; I'm not sure I'd jump back to watch this quicker than, say, the previous episode but this was good Planet or the Weird Thing.

Edit: and damn the character work was on point, again. Plot heavy episode yet there was still room for character moments. Even the doctor's sick daughter wasn't played for half the melodrama it could have been.

I was expecting him to badger and berate the aliens for help - nope. He just stayed focused, spoke carefully but still with passion and desperation.

Bobtheman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119180804#Comment_119180804

The boys fate wasn't apparent to me! Well not from the start.

I was intrigued by the mention of Poverty in the federation. I thought they had eliminated it?

The red haired lady referenced it when she said people in the federation looked away from child poverty so how could they condemn their actions?

I can't recall the characters name. Pike's love interest.

Greyjoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119217337#Comment_119217337

Yes at the end of the day the kid is still sacrificed to the machine. But the problem was by Pike not rebutting Alora's accusation about the Federation he's essentially conceding the point that there's no difference between the two societies and even worse that somehow the Majallans are more "honest" about their way of life. I couldn't see Kirk or Picard accepting Alora's sanctimonious depiction of the 'ascension'.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119275926#Comment_119275926

I think they slightly wrote themselves into a corner by wanting to be faithful to the original story they were adapting... the point of the original story is that you read it, feel revulsion at this practice of tormenting this one poor child so the rest of society can benefit, and then reflect on all the places we all accept similar (and actually much worse) 'deals with the devil' in our own society. So they wanted to make that point, but of course if you have Pike say; "nah, everything is awesome, we've become enlightened", then you sort of lose the message a bit and it just turns them into more clear cut baddies.

They could've maybe skirted around that though and instead cited humanity, as a species rather than (future) present day humanity, as having been built upon totally accepted human rights violations towards its most vulnerable all throughout its history. Even then though you'd expect Pike to say that they'd learned etc... it's a tricky one, where the story-homage was a great idea, but it's a tough one to really nail down within this particular sci-fi context.

Greyjoy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119276723#Comment_119276723

I get that Alora isn't *really* making her point against the Federation but rather to us the viewer. I just would have liked to see Pike push back a little by saying something along the lines of "it doesn't matter how honest you are about the cost of ascension - that kid will still end up dead".