Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121283276#Comment_121283276

The "boom" totally bypassed civil and public servants.

I take it you're referring to the farce that was the benchmarking awards, which didn't happen until the early 2000s - years after the Celtic Tiger had been roaring for everyone else - and was meant to bring the much lower C&PS pay rates up closer to the much higher rates being paid in the private sector for equivalent roles. Awards that again were drip fed in slowly over years, and then very swiftly removed by FEMPI, once the bottom fell out. As well as more pain on top.

Giving something with one hand, then taking it away with the other, then giving it back, once again drip fed over more than a decade, were not pay increases.

It was pay restoration to where they should have been all along.

readoutloud

Deleted

readoutloud

Deleted

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121283993#Comment_121283993

10 isnt enough for the dreamers on here.

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121282981#Comment_121282981

Did they not start months ago?

Ezeoul

Well, maybe I'm a dreamer, but it's like I once said to a PO back when I was a very junior CA and a 2% pay increase was being discussed.

"2% of what you earn is a good increase. 2% of what I earn is **** all".

As far as I'm concerned, the same applies today.

Someone on €70k getting a 7% increase equating to almost €5k pa (gross) might think it's a good offer (or even a "great!" offer) and happily vote it in.

However, someone on €28K getting a 7% increase equating to less than €2k pa (gross) is getting fcuked over.

I won't vote to accept a deal for 7% over 2 years.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121283993#Comment_121283993

Inflation was higher then the rate increase from the last agreement. Inflation would outstrip a 7% rise over the next two years.

10% is probably unlikely but perfectly reasonable.

pc7

I really feel they need to look at the lower grades this time, it is getting impossible to recruit and retain staff.

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121284796#Comment_121284796

I dont disagree here. But id wager there isnt a lot of lower grades posting on boards with the age demogrpahic

Daith

Where would a CO even get the time to post on Boards!

But yes, something better for lower grades would be good

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285276#Comment_121285276

Hahaha

Grueller

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121283993#Comment_121283993

Caviar will remain a dream so!!!

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285126#Comment_121285126

You say you don't disagree, but you have been vocal that you would vote to accept such a deal again anyway!

This is were we will always differ.

Gusser09

Not a chance of 10 percent obviously. It'll be between 6 and 8 I'm guessing. I'd also think most people will accept this deal.

Daith

Yeah, a "big" increase at the start like 4 with two others around 2 or something over two years?

Are we all saying that we're happy taking a pay cut so?

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285534#Comment_121285534

No I'd be happy with 20 percent. I doubt that'll happen though so I'd take 8 percent.

Not a chance I'm standing on a picket line. No **** way. Not after the debacle last time.

Daith

I think the bigger question is, are you saying you'd quit your job and go to the private sector? That's what the State is betting when they negotiate.

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285356#Comment_121285356

Oh yeah i mean ill vote for 10 across the board. We wont get 10 like.

lbunnae

I see the local authroties are threatening strikes , maybe that will speed up the talks.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285618#Comment_121285618

Parts of TUSLA and HSE are already beginning industrial action for conditions changes.

Union seems to be getting angsty

readoutloud

Irish inflation:

2021 ~ 2.5%

2022 ~ 8%

2023 ~ 6%

(100 * 1.025 * 1.08 * 1.06 = 117.5%)

Between Jan 2021 and Dec 2023 inflation will have been 17.5%. That's a significant reduction of public servants' actual purchasing power.

And this will be further compounded by continued high rates of inflation next year.

What were the pay increases across the same time period?

I don't think a double digit pay increase this time round is an unreasonable ask.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285556#Comment_121285556

Jaysus, hope that the Government negotiation team are clones of you

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285557#Comment_121285557

But that completely ignores the problem of not being able to recruit competent staff. It's been hopeless in IT for a long time but it's everywhere now.

ethical

People dreaming again! No way on earth the Gov.will listen to a double digit pay increase.Remember we are Public Servants for a reason!!! Best we can hope for is 3% in year 1 and perhaps 1.5% in year 2 and same in year 3...that's if its a 3 yr agreement which I doubt it will be.Giving a 'big' 3% in yr 1 will be the best that can be hoped for. Remember the rate of inflation is coming down and by year 2 or yr 3 of a new agreement we could be down to the EU hoped for 2% inflation rate and the yr 2 and yr 3 wage % increase will look OK when compared with the then inflation rate.

Really what the Gov. should be doing is getting all suppliers in for a chat and threatening 'fines' if the supply of goods and services does not show a downward curve over a certain few months. Of course the Gov. will say they cannot interfere in this.Remember they sort of brought energy suppliers in and sort of told them to bring prices down...and of course, they sort of told the banks to give better saving rate....so its all just sort of........

If we didn't have the extortion we could survive with low enough wage increases. Yes, we missed out big time over the years from 2010 'til the present with FEMPI ,etc ,yes, we are an easy target and will remain so.Industrial unrest will not heal matters. Unions are TFU (totally fcuking useless!) when it comes to pay negotiations nowadays!

Daith

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285820#Comment_121285820

Pay rises for existing staff and recruiting new staff are different things though.

As I mentioned before, they could change the starting entry point on the scale rather than actual rises. Or look at a Dublin bonus but, well, that will cause ructions as already discussed.

But they know the vast majority of public servants will grumble but won't leave.

They're doing three streams for IT specialists at the moment. Now, I personally think HEO doesn't really mean IT specialist, but I'd be really curious as to what level of applications they're getting

readoutloud

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285854#Comment_121285854

This post shows a misunderstanding of inflation.

If, as the poster says, the was a paltry pay increase of 3% next year, and 1.5% the two following years, that means that even were inflation to drop to 2% in Years 2 and 3, public servants would be losing purchasing power each year (by ~1% the first year and 0.5% the next two years). This seems fairly unacceptable.

Even if inflation does drop to 2% over the next few years (a big if) that does not mean prices for the "supply of goods and services" revert to their previous levels. Instead, prices remain where they are - which almost 20% higher than they were 3 years ago.

For prices to actually drop back to 2019 levels, we would have to see high deflation. This is unlikely to happen, especially given that significant deflation has only occured about 3 times in the history of the state.

Short of a major economic crash (and likely even then) prices are staying up. Wages must rise accordingly if we want a skilled, fully-functioning public sector.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121285557#Comment_121285557

The State already knows they don't have to offer more than 6% or 7%, because they know people won't quit, and too many are willing to just accept whatever lowball first offer is made, and go quietly on their way for another couple of years.

Why would they offer more?

The outcome is pre-determined and its so predictable.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121286966#Comment_121286966

Would you go on strike for a week or two?

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121287008#Comment_121287008

Me personally, yes I would, even though I wouldn't enjoy it. Because I think until it actually comes to that, all C&PS will ever get is the crumbs of the table.

It would be short term pain for long term gain. I've been on strike before, as I know you have.

But there is little threat of it happening now with the current membership, and the Government are well aware of that.