Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518995#Comment_121518995

That should all have been arranged long ago. Former deal expires on 1st January. Instead the government was allowed to waltz to the table as late as late November because they want to delay any deal for as long as possible.

I wouldn't be surprised if this carries on into February or March.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519007#Comment_121519007

Industrial action is the Unions biggest card. I don't think you should walk into a negotiation with a loaded revolver.

The threat of balloting members is pressure. The threat of going on industrial action once given the mandate is pressure. One day strikes is pressure and finally an all out strike is the most pressure the Unions can put on. I don't see why they should skip any of those stages and I don't know what immediate industrial action achives.

Further to all that, what if they balloted members before the talks began and the membership base said no or didn't come back with a high percentage. That would just weaken their hand. I see no reason as to why they should have balloted earlier.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519012#Comment_121519012

My understanding is that balloting is not required for industrial action, only for striking.

pygmaliondreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518995#Comment_121518995

Yeah agreed, give them a chance otherwise it looks like the unions had no intention to make a deal in the first place rather than dper

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519024#Comment_121519024

What other industrial action is going to have an effect?

Work to rule? I literally would have no idea how to implement that in my role. Go slow? Overtime ban? I don't have overtime. [and yes, I understand each term]. On this scale, its strikes starting off with one day strikes. All other industrial action is meaningless.

howiya

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518552#Comment_121518552

It would be interesting to know what the Minister is referring to

He said they had been involved in a process over many weeks and that he had made a major concession in relation to public pay.

ICTU say they haven't got around to talking about pay yet.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519200#Comment_121519200

FEMPI

readoutloud

With the current pay deal expiring at the end of the month, will individual public service sectors then be able to take industrial actions off their own bat?

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519097#Comment_121519097

Dept of Education/Govt would go crazy if ASTI implemented no cooperation with Croke Park hours (as they did some years ago)

maneno

What exactly were the unions discussing that they didn’t get to even to pay? The mind boggles

EduKate

It's sabre-rattling, part of the pantomime of negotiations.

Unions have to look like they have power. They're useless and the government will run rings around them imo.

bailey99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121518706#Comment_121518706

I'm commenting not complaining. I was a union member for many years and after repeatedly failing their members, I quit the union. They are beyond incompetent.

They put no pressure on dper for talks and only start end of November and after a two hour meeting they take a 5 day break til the next meeting.

They have 11 meetings and still haven't even started a discussion on pay. In the midst of a cost of living crisis. When pay is the most important issue right now for most if not all CS & PS.

The union make themselves available next week for talks and dper say era no we are grand to wait til January. You have to laugh. DPER run rings around the Union, its like a comedy sketch.

And you want to question my entitlement to comment, on a discussion forum, about my unwillingness to pay €400 a year to have these people represent me?! Away outta that me auld flower 😆

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520075#Comment_121520075

so bizzare haha

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520075#Comment_121520075

I nearly fell off my chair when I read this. I mean all that matter is money and these clowns don't even get around to discussing it. Really starting g to wonder why I pay my fees.

joe1979

Pascal now saying the unions brought in new demands late in the day which caused delays in getting an agreement over pay.

You could take it with a pinch of salt but having personally worked with the union on a claim before [a top official tried to bring up something completely irrelevant to the employer side which made us look like idiots and which nearly torpedoed the whole claim] I would well believe it. Absolute bunch of amateurs at these talks representing workers.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519097#Comment_121519097

A targeted work to rule could have an absolutely massive effect. There are many areas where management exploit the goodwill of the workers on a continual basis.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121519287#Comment_121519287

Yes, no longer bound by any agreement as it has expired.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520307#Comment_121520307

That negates nothing of what I said.

You're not going to strengthen the union position by taking your ball and going home.

But you'll still gain any increases the unions negotiate.

Really any pay rises should be for union members only. You are welcome to go off and negotiate with your HR on your own and see how that goes 🤣

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520450#Comment_121520450

The problem is that we have two whole generations now of union officials happy to sign up to national agreements and never go on a proper strike no matter how badly we get fcuked around (symbolic half-day nonsense once every ten years where we had to make up the lost work for free anyway certainly doesn't count)

They've gone soft but still get very well paid by us for doing fcuk all.

maneno

Amateurs sums it up

Daith

There is an argument that only Union members should get any increase. Why should non Union members get the benefit of any increase?

I mean the people in DPER who are negotiating against the Unions, will almost certainly benefit from any increase also. Which means they "win" either way. Same with politicians.

Or have it benchmarked against inflation every two years or something. Or CPI increase so everyone knows what potential increase they're getting.

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520307#Comment_121520307

I’ll see how this plays out but I think I might join you, they are coming across seriously pathetic.

gifted

I get the impression that the government knows there is nothing but imminent bad news on the horizon in terms of the economy and jobs and are putting the pay talks on the long finger so it makes it easier for them to not have to give a decent pay rise.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521082#Comment_121521082

its the old phrase, unions are useless until you need them.

im a member of a union, yes of course to add numbers for things like the pay talks, but I’m also a member because if something in work goes wrong, they’re my representation. From anecdotal experience, the Unions are far better at representing people than solicitors. Union membership is cheap.

I don’t have as harsh an opinion on here as others. It’s weird pay wasn’t talked about but I don’t care if the pay talks conclude this week or in March, once we get the best deal. That will be decided by the members who vote it in or not and not the unions. 7.5% flew through last time, that weakens the Unions hand this time. The Government know they don’t need to match inflation to get a deal through, there’s politics on both sides of this.

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521308#Comment_121521308

Yeah I get that but I suppose and im probably wrong but ive never felt they were that needed in the civil service considering the job security but I guess there’s loads of things that could go wrong. I’ll keep paying alright. And I agree that it could mean us getting a better deal.

pygmaliondreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521385#Comment_121521385

The job security wouldn't be long going if the union wasn't around I'd fear.

Peter Flynt

Only one representative from four unions of ICTU ever enter negotiations with senior civil servants from the DPER. The rest are left outside and eventually told the deal. One of those reps is from the INTO as primary schools open is of absolute necessity for the state (to get the parents to work) whereas ASTI never included as 12+ secondary school considered old enough to mind themselves for a few hours if alone.

Have read through the comments here along the lines of "If only the unions have the power". . . . Well they do have the power but they're f**ked under the umbrella of ICTU as ICTU are basically in bed with the government of the day. Think back over the past 15 years of austerity and there have been virtually no strikes. That ain't a coincidence.

joe1979

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121520988#Comment_121520988

Because you cant be discriminated against for being in a union the opposite applies. You cannot discriminate against someone for not being in a union. You would have the WRC swamped with those non members seeking equal pay with union members.

In fairness those in the lower grades a few euros a week can make all the difference. That is also why it is more galling that the unions were unable or hadnt got any comprehension that pay was always the number 1 priority. Absolute clowns.

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521404#Comment_121521404

Ah I don’t know , feel like it would be nigh on impossible to get staff if the biggest perk was taken away. Could be wrong though! But the likes of Job sharing , reduced working week all that stuff would prob not be there.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121521441#Comment_121521441

Pay was the #1 priority according to every email I received from SIPTU and every media appearance.

It’s odd they never got to pay. It’s so bizarre that it makes me think there are other reasons for it. I’ll wait on the deal to be released before being too critical.

The oddest thing is that they told people they never got to discuss pay.