Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121555172#Comment_121555172

It is about pay.

You don't know what you're talking about.

Norrie Rugger Head

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121555172#Comment_121555172

It's all about pay FFS.

They can get paid MORE in other countries which, given international market conditions, means they are underpaid.

Or other countries give them a higher purchasing power relative to earnings.

It doesn't matter one iota what they are paid relative to the Irish market. They have internationally marketable skills, like nurses, and we must compete globally.

Your parochial thinking is why we have a drain in key areas

Indestructable

It's no use for newly or recently qualified teachers to be promised being a top earner in 10-12 years when they can't afford the rent today.

That's why they leave and who can blame them. It's about pay and the accomodation crises in the country.

HGVRHKYY

Young people are emigrating because you're either forced to live with your parents or pay upwards of 40-50% (sometimes more for people in Dublin) to rent with multiple other people. People who own their homes seem to be clueless about how desperate the situation is for young people, just go on daft and look at the prices being asked in Dublin, Cork, Limerick and Galway and if your really want to put yourself in our shoes, actually apply for some places to see the responses you get (you'll likely get none or just be one of hundreds at a viewing). If people were paid enough to afford the rents and cost of living, there'd be less feeling pushed to emigrate

The only difference now is it seems all the Anglosphere countries are similarly fucked due to the same treatment from international investment firms squeezing the life out of everywhere possible, so people are cornered and feeling even more depressed.

readoutloud

Teachers in Ireland are relatively well paid, given their terms and conditions. But some go abroad for even better offers, financially anyway. Overall, that seems reasonable.

On the other hand, if your wages are buying you less after two years' worth of high inflation, then it also seems reasonable to look to have the difference met with a pay increase.

Peter Flynt

"We made it very clear that we remain available for discussions between the Christmas and New Year period, so it is very disappointing to have got to this stage with relatively little progress, and a tangible lack of enthusiasm on the part of Government" - ASTI

As stated before FF/FG don't want a deal. Yesterday's SBP had a smiling Minister for Finance boasting of inflation coming down as he failed to acknowledge that current inflation on top of the inflation over 2022-23 still means massive increases in prices over the past two years as public servants only received a 2% pay increase for the entirety of 2023.

It's quite clear that FF/FG position is to wait until inflation falls further in order to give public servants less.

combat14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121555389#Comment_121555389

schools in dublin are literally crying out for teachers there are more than some going abroad or in many cases down the country to escape the rent spiral debt trap that is dublin

Pogue eile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121549691#Comment_121549691

See you are exactly the type of person I'm talking about, one minute you are completely outraged that the talks hadn't gotten to Pay (you only have to go back one page)- what exactly were they talking about, Pay is all that matters.... - and then you come out with the above.

What colleagues are not given a say? One's who choose not to be a part of the Union? Here's another life lesson Peter, 'decisions have consequences' quite frankly anyone who doesn't pay their Union fees can fcuk right off!

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121566650#Comment_121566650

Austerity hours, like Croke Park, are still a major issue. Of course pay is still the primary issue and it is just shocking that they allowed the previous deal to lapse and spent a month not talking about pay.

Also reagrding those who don't pay their union fees . . . Well I agree with you.

combat14

Inflation climbs to 3.2% as hopes of imminent ECB rate cut fade (Irish Times)

looks like inflation is on an upward trajectory again - perhaps the unions will be have a stronger case to make after all

spark_tank

https://www.businesspost.ie/news/a-matter-of-urgency-sinn-fein-says-government-must-prioritise-new-public-sector-pay-deal/

claregal1

Just wondering if there are any other CO on this forum and what would they be willing to accept. I'm point 13 at the moment but still struggling. Although we do have OT in our section which helps. In our office the general vibe with the COs is they will accept whatever is offered ...

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121555389#Comment_121555389

Very few are now going to Australia, unless they are prepared to share a bedroom.

The slave economy of Dubai is the main destination, where they can be paid more money off the back of the slaves imported by the Arabs from poor countries like Bangladesh.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121571541#Comment_121571541

The UK also has worse conditions than here. So, the main destination is the middle east, which is a hardship post IMO. This is not open to all teachers of course, there isn't much need for Religion or Irish teachers there. There aren't a lot of great options for teachers to emigrate too. Nurses have quite a few more options and much better working conditions. They are also paid less than teachers here, which isn't the case in other English speaking countries.

blanch152

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121571679#Comment_121571679

The Middle East is not a hardship post if you are a privileged Westerner on an expatriate contract. Now if you are an indentured slave from Bangladesh or Pakistan, you don't want to go near Saudi or the UAE.

HerrKuehn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121571878#Comment_121571878

There is a reason they have to pay highly, most people would prefer to work somewhere else. Dubai is not too bad, but I wouldn't want to live there. Saudi Arabia, you couldn't pay me enough to live there. Granted it is much worse for the unskilled labour from the sub continent.

lbunnae

The government let the old deal lapse without a care in the world , didn’t even bother discussing pay with the unions. Jesus it just shows you they have absolutely zero fear of the Unions haha.

Iggy1986

https://www.businesspost.ie/article/donohoe-says-he-wont-be-influenced-by-threats-of-strike-in-public-sector-pay-talks/

Surely we’ll have a clearer picture by this time next week?

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121574032#Comment_121574032

Same old rhetoric - I've been listening to the same thing around C&PS pay since the 80s...

Yet isn't it amazing how they can "afford" to find literally billions for just about everyone and everything else though.

pygmaliondreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121574246#Comment_121574246

I'd be happy to participate in industrial action at this point... Government knows they can get away with murder otherwise.

solidasarock

I am really not expecting much more then what was done in the last deal.

At least in the civil service the game is rigged in favor of whatever the gov wants.

Majority of staff are still long timers / lifers who where in the job pre recession, if not at the top of their pay scales already and pretty settled in life and would wave in any minimal pay increase.

There isnt enough younger / lower grade staff to outvote the amount of olds.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121574032#Comment_121574032

Paschal Donohoe won't be influenced? A day of national public sector strikes would have him in a panic especially with primary schools closing. He knows though that there are no Mick Lynch's among Irish unions - instead there are bootlicking nonentities "leading" the unions.

Peter Flynt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121574453#Comment_121574453

Younger staff tend not to join unions. In fact they tend to dislike them. So be it - they can emigrate so. Their choice if they don't want to fight for their pay and conditions.

Ezeoul

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121574451#Comment_121574451

We would all hope it wouldn't come to that... it shouldn't have to come to that - but given the disdain the Government is showing for its own employees is anyone surprised that here we are?

Lets see what the ballots say on 11th January.

lbunnae

I’d vote for strike action. I would accept less than most on here 7/8% over two yrs is good imo. But not even discussing it with the unions, screw that , that’s insulting.

combat14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121574246#Comment_121574246

14 billion given away to social welfare exactly nothing for workers..

bren2001

I would want to know what I’m striking for before I would vote in favour of it. Specifically, what is our claim? What percentage are we looking for?

I see striking without a clearly defined goal as pointless. Striking for “a deal” makes no sense to me. Striking for X% over Y time period makes sense to me.

Norrie Rugger Head

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121574032#Comment_121574032

The last pay-deal extension was a 6.5 per cent increase over 2022 and 2023. Inflation was 8 per cent in 2022, and around 5 per cent for 2023, showing an evident gap that the unions may want backfilled. But unions will also want future assurances on pay increases.

Paragraphs, like this one, are designed to make it look like the employees/unions are extra greedy and is one of the reasons that multi year deals are always politically favourable to the government.

It is not comparing like for like units. Were they wanting to be fair they would have given the 2022 % increase Vs Inflation and then the 2023 % increase Vs Inflation.

All people will see it the 6.5% being slap in the middle of the inflation figures, making it look like a good deal

lbunnae

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121574742#Comment_121574742

Well currently it is striking because there is no deal.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121574767#Comment_121574767

I’d vote no to striking for that. Government offer 1%, that theoretically ends the strike, they’ve put forward a deal. It’s a very weak claim to strike against imo.

If we are striking, set our stall out and force their hand.