Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

pc7

Its all gone very quiet, has it totally stalled?

skidmarkoner

I imagine both sides are waiting for the other to blink first kind of shite.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119261330#Comment_119261330

I haven't heard anything, but we did get an "All Staff of the Department" email today that the pay restoration for those on over é150k won't be going ahead on 1st July.

That's not to stay it will never go ahead. But it looks like it's going to be postponed.

(Disclaimer: I'm not on €150k and never will be!)

exitstageleft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119262511#Comment_119262511

I don't know. There isn't much onus on the government to blink. The longer they take to give an increase the more they save.

I'm kind of surprised the unions just acquiesced to the government's refusal.

skidmarkoner

Agree if they hold out long enough some other crisis will crop up and it'll be a bad time.

Sure look the unions don't care the ones negotiating are hardly struggling to put food on the table. It's a game of chess for them.

Hotblack Desiato

Really been struggling to see the benefits of the "bigger stronger union" the last few years...

HartsHat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270374#Comment_119270374

Surely you'd prefer if it was a game of chess (i.e. they want the best possible deal) rather than having someone who is struggling to make ends meat and would therefore take the first offer?

HartsHat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270672#Comment_119270672

Well there's more than just Fórsa at the table, but the Unions have in the last 2/3 years got (i) pay restoration, (ii) points knocked of new entran scale and (iii) pay increase which disproportionately benefit the lower paid.

What else are you looking for?

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270374#Comment_119270374

I'd rather them playing a game of chess then playing a game of desperately begging ans to be given the scraps off the table.

skidmarkoner

I'd rather they give it hell and get the best possible deal. But they basically said we won't meet unless they have a better offer.

If I was on the other end of the negotiations I would just ignore the union until they come back they have no threat of action, no voicing of the worry of Junior staff just a you'll have to do better next time attitude.

HartsHat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270790#Comment_119270790

Theres almost certainly informal or discreet contacts ongoing.

skidmarkoner

https://www.businesspost.ie/politics/government-holds-out-on-revised-pay-offer-for-340000-public-sector-workers/

This is the latest source I've seen. Makes me think nothing is happening.

Galwayhurl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270763#Comment_119270763

Points knocked off scale? Aren't they still there, it's just that points 4 and 8 are skipped? Same effect I know but just wanted to clarify.

wench

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270950#Comment_119270950

Ah but it's not the same effect. Keeping the extra lower points means you're paid less for the first 6 years.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270763#Comment_119270763

Not signing us up to 1% a year pay deals

Not caving in to ridiculous management demands over WFH

Not having an appalling deterioration in communication with members (not like it was great before)

That sort of thing.

lightspeed

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119270864#Comment_119270864

I'm confused as what is the forsa negotiation leaders response to this?

Shouldn't they be at least start publically talking of strike action?

Almost seems like forsa didn't get what they wanted so we will just leave things as they are, or are we too assume negotiation meetings are ongoing but not being made public?

Has anybody heard any update from their union reps?

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/work/2022/06/30/governments-public-service-pay-offer-not-credible-unions-say/

The Government’s offer of a 5 per cent pay increase over two years for public servants is “not credible”, and an improved offer is needed to continue talks, unions have told the Workplace Relations Commission (WRC).

The Irish Congress of Trade Union public services committee (PSC) said it backed the union negotiators’ view that the Government’s recent pay offer could not credibly be put to ballot while low and middle-income workers struggle with soaring prices.

Talks between unions and the Government on public sector pay got under way in early June at the WRC.

Under the current public sector pay agreement, Building Momentum, public sector workers received a 1 per cent pay increase last year, with a further 1 per cent due this October. Unions triggered a review clause contained within the agreement almost four months ago due to higher-than-expected inflation in 2021 and 2022.

The Government then offered an additional increase of just 2.5 per cent for the 2021-2022 period of the current agreement, which is now under review with the assistance of the WRC.

This was “clearly inadequate when inflation is likely to be at least 9 per cent over that period,” PSC chairman Kevin Callinan said in a letter addressed to the WRC’s director general, Liam Kelly, this week.

It remained the union’s position the offer “cannot credibly be put to ballots of low and middle-income public servants”.

The PSC “endorsed this position, which cannot change unless the Government’s side is prepared to make an improved offer for 2021-2022″, the letter said.

The PSC also agreed its officers could not credibly reach an agreement about pay in 2023 before the current pay terms of Building Momentum have been reviewed and improved.

Mr Callinan told the WRC that public service unions had expected an improved Government pay offer to be made.

“In common with workers across the economy, public servants were currently bearing the full brunt of large and sustained increases in the cost of home heating, fuel, food, housing, childcare, and many other essentials,” he said.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271635#Comment_119271635

Has anybody heard any update from their union reps?

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Galwayhurl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271165#Comment_119271165

How so if we skip points 4 and 8?

Conqueror

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271813#Comment_119271813

Let's take the EO scale as an example. Say a person began on 1st January 2022. This is what they would earn each year up to 2039 (for ease, pretend the most recent pay restoration was on 1st January, rather than on 1st February 2022), and there will be no change to the rates of pay before they reach the top of the scale in the late 2030s. The first row shows what the original scale looked like up to 2019. The second is the current situation, where new entrants skip points 4 and 8. The third row shows what it would look like if a person started on the third point of the scale, but didn't skip points 4 and 8 any more.

In our example, our colleague starting as an EO in 2022 would be on €45,160 by 2029 irrespective of whether they skipped points 4 and 8, or points 1 and 2. Either scenario is better than the pre-2019 situation, as they reach the top of the payscale two years faster, with a knock-on benefit for pension and lump sum. However, as wench notes, skipping later points instead of at the start means the EO gets paid less each year until the start of 2028.

The real beauty for the Government is the final row, the total amount our EO friend gets paid over the 17 years. Allowing them to skip points 4 and 8 costs the Government €25,807 more over that spell, but skipping points 1 and 2 would cost the Government €40,581 extra!

crinkley

I’m open to correction but I thought you skipped either point 4 or 8 not both so it would depend on when you started but you only got the skipping benefit once not twice

combat14

when are workers getting compensation for crazy increase in cost of living .. price of fuel (driving), elecricity/gas, oil heating, food etc. has gone absolutely bonkers .. ordinary workers who were just getting by are being cream crackered .. there will be some reckoning for the economy this autumn/winter when workers stop spending on anything other than essentials ..

Conqueror

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272276#Comment_119272276

Page 2 of https://assets.gov.ie/128125/b74e48ab-294d-4751-9590-a53abd7dc6d4.pdf explains

jaffa20

https://www.forsa.ie/pspay30062022/

Oh Leo! Where is the offer?

"Mr Varadkar said the Government wanted to reengage in the WRC-brokered talks, and that it was prepared to make “a further offer.”

Augme

The Unions need to start deciding on how best to esculate it from here. At the moment there is no need for the government to bother coming back to the table.

squigglestrebor

Does anyone know how get on a higher scale of a grade? For some reason i thought they were just old pre recession celtic tiger scales but thats not the case? Thanks

Rikand

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119274036#Comment_119274036

The longest serving 10 or 20% people in the organisation at each grade can apply for it. Not sure on the actual percentage but it's something like that

squigglestrebor

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119274090#Comment_119274090

Ah cool , thanks for the info.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119274036#Comment_119274036

Work in Finance, DPER or Taoiseach

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119274090#Comment_119274090

I'm on a higher scale, I didn't apply, I just got notification from HR one day that I was being put on it. So they must do it automatically at some point..