Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

square ball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418591#Comment_119418591

Are you trying to say a 2% pay-rise gives a bigger increase after deductions to a CO than a PO?

crinkley

Gives the bigger increase to a PO. But the narrative on here makes it out that POs would be gaining substantially and that’s simply not the case. So it’s not as simple as saying 2% is okay for one grade but not the other because it’s not taking into consideration deductions at all

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418550#Comment_119418550

and increasing the wage to a service that everyone has to use by 10% is going to further fuel inflation. I am trying to get people in here to take the blinkers off, the public sector may think everything is rosey in the garden and but its not and regardless of what they may think of their private sector counter parts if the companies I outlined in my post start hitting the wall at a higher rate the taxes will not be there to cover the current ps pay let alone an increase.. The US are in a recession, even do they deny it but their GDP does not lie, our GDP is only a plus due to the MNCs if you look at GNP (taking MNCs away) we are in negative territory, the German economy is in the tank, consumer confidence is down at its lowest in a long time, supplies down, demand now coming down due to the high costs and this was always going to lead to job losses in the private sector I think we will see the summer through but come Autumn things will really shift as its began a lot sooner than I had anticipated.

Sarn

A 2% increase for someone on €25k (€25.5k) would make them €330 better off a year.

A 2% increase to someone on €70k (€71.4K) would make them better off by €530 a year.

That is, the higher earner would be getting an extra €3.84 a week compared to the lower paid worker.

HartsHat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418591#Comment_119418591

The add to do that the number of hours worked, and the fact that there's no flexitime for POs...

exitstageleft

Liz Truss disowns plan to cut public sector pay outside London

https://www.irishtimes.com/world/uk/2022/08/02/liz-truss-disowns-plan-to-cut-public-sector-pay-outside-london/

Interesting with regard to suggestions for higher pay for Dublin based public servants.

Riskymove

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418731#Comment_119418731

all the recent general pay increases provide for a minimum

for example the 1% increases in October will be 1% or €500 whichever is higher. so someone on 25k actually gets a 2% increase rater than 1

square ball

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419378#Comment_119419378

They do get 10 extra days annual leave and starting wage is 3 x times more than Clerical Staff.

Whatever way you look at it the PO gets more from a 2% increase across the board.

Inflation is affecting everyone at the minute. The cost of food, electricity, heat and fuel is affecting everyone but it is having a bigger effect on the lower paid staff.

People at lower end are genuinely struggling to put food on the table, fuel in the car and cover rent/mortgages.

This is not the same circumstances the PO is facing.

crinkley

thats a very sweeping statement, you don’t know the personal circumstances of a po. I’m sure a po with 3 kids is feeling the pinch of inflation as much as a single co.

the point is lower grades take home a larger percentage of any pay rise. Higher grades are not swimming in disposable income because of a 2% pay rise no matter what some posters on here think. Narrowing the gap between grades by compensating lower grades is not the answer and one I don’t think the union will push for. Personally I believe there are better solutions such as reducing increment periods at co level to 6 months and a dublin weighted pay

cuttingtimber22

If you look at benchmarking, the reality in terms of pay/conditions is that COs and EOs are relatively well paid (particularly outside of Dublin) relative to private sector workers with similar type roles, while APs and POs are less well remunerated compared to similar roles in the private sector.

Pogue eile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418346#Comment_119418346

I suspect that Gusser sits separately from everyone at break, and not by choice.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119419790#Comment_119419790

Yeh I do because I don't want to listen to the incessant whinging and poor mouthing from the likes of you lot.

of course when we are talking about runaway inflation we are in fact talking about costs.

really unless you know the individual non-negotiable costs somebody faces its a bit hypothetical giving it the verbals about what effect inflation does or doesn't have on them.

lets not pick on POs but a pair of AP parents to young- say creche age- children with a recent mortgage and minimum one car to keep on the road?

who joined the service on the single scheme and therefore have indeed choices to make between rainy day funds, retirement incomes, college funds, oh the whole whack

well and good that some people have plenty- bought at the right time, kids reared, maybe inherited or gifted a bit here and there- but the idea that any one person swings in here to swipe at what they imagine others have or can live with is ridiculous.

option always there to throw a few quid around any way you like if yer that guilty over it, but im still to see anything that convinces me that people who have gained a few promotions making the usual efforts to do so over the years should still be offered up by some as the well to go to

id only point out again that the biggest pay cuts and slowest restorations were against higher grades, this idea is well past its sell by date

Shuffl_in

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/2022/08/03/record-tax-receipts-deliver-5bn-surplus-for-government/

Record tax receipts have bolstered the Government’s financial position ahead of the budget. Big increases in corporate tax, VAT and income tax drove tax revenue — for the seven months to the end of July — to €43.5 billion, the latest exchequer returns show. This was 23 per cent, or €8.2 billion higher, than the same period time last year.

The stronger-than-expected performance comes despite the surge in inflation, now running at over 9 per cent, which is likely to erode the living standards of most Irish households this year.

The Government admitted that some of the additional receipts from VAT and excise duty generated this year were the result of higher prices generally.

The latest figures show the exchequer generated a surplus of €5 billion in July, compared to a deficit of €5.7 billion this time last year, an improvement of €10.7 billion, potentially giving the Government more financial fire power for cost-of-living measures in the budget.

The Government’s tax haul was boosted by record corporation tax receipts, which generated €9 billion for the seven-month period, more than €3 billion ahead of the same period last year.

The strong performance was driven by “significant increases in profitability in the multinational sector”, the Department of Finance said.

VAT generated almost €12 billion, an increase of €2.2 billion, or 23 per cent, on the same period in 2021. However, the department cautioned that there was a significant “base effect” in the cumulative VAT figures “as the economy was still in lockdown through much of the same tax period in 2021, depressing VAT receipts and flattering the comparison”.

It also noted a “significant deceleration in growth” in sales tax receipts in July, reflecting, in part, the fading of these “base effects”. Officials are also warning that inflation and higher living costs are likely to negatively impact VAT receipts later in the year.

The Government’s other main tax head, income tax, also performed strongly, reflecting improvements in the labour market. On a cumulative basis, income tax receipts stood at €16.7 billion at the end of July, which is over €2.4 billion, or almost 17 per cent, ahead of the same period in 2021.

salonfire

Comfortable for the Government to deliver on the 7% pay increases over this year and next. Until rejected by unions that is.

The unions should be told go and p*ss off if they don't want the increase.

Shuffl_in

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119424769#Comment_119424769

That's not how it works.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119424769#Comment_119424769

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119424566#Comment_119424566

Its going to be a year of 2 halves, the extra cash the government is coining in from basically raping the tax payer is going to be needed for redundancies and welfare payments in the next couple months. Its already started

https://www.independent.ie/business/spike-in-sme-distress-as-post-covid-reality-hits-41886114.html

HartsHat

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119424939#Comment_119424939

"Raping" the taxpayer is strange language to use, especially when you then acknowledge the money will be require to further bail out businesses and provide for citizens.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119425133#Comment_119425133

Its a very strong word but doesn't mean I am wrong how much is it before the higher rate of tax kicks in, how much are they making off of the likes of petrol and other areas that have ballooned in price and them getting their pound of flesh and then what you get in return for this is p1ss poor with regards to our services and infrastructure. Raping isn't a strong enough word for it IMO

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119415253#Comment_119415253

So you're against giving people a chance? Get on the ladder?

Hotblack Desiato

That pathetic Indo article again. First sentence:

Evidence of an increase in post-Covid insolvencies is beginning to emerge among SMEs as firms confront the reality of doing business without subsidies.

🙄

These lads would, if they could, charge their customers whatever they like, not pay staff, not pay suppliers, not pay taxes and they'd still be fecking looking for handouts.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119425412#Comment_119425412

They are going to be lose their business, jobs and go onto the dole and cannot afford what is being asked for. I blame the government as I have said it on here a few times a lot of small to medium businesses during the pandemic were only staying open due to covid support payments and they were not really viable there was no due diligence done money handed out like confetti to all. We also have the situation now of businesses that were viable say last year they cannot afford the new high costs that they are facing we then had a 6 month boon when everything reopened and things looked great and we have a bit more tax than we thought due to the raping of tax payers but the next 6 months are going to be horrible, already talks of blackouts, the redundancies are ramping up, costs continuing to go up (oil, gas, food, interest rates), you see the owner of a private sector company can only borrow so much to stay afloat they cannot borrow billions (unlike some other sector) upon billions to stay alive unfortunately. The other side of this is the above scenario will need a real increase in monies needed for redundancies (one offs), but dole going forward will going up and the drop in income tax yet another pile of cash to find for the rest of the tax payers.

Keep an eye on unemployment figures.

Kenrach

I don't think the use of the word "raping' should ever be used in this context.

combat14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119418731#Comment_119418731

not necessarily you are not including increases to Paye and usc as income rises

combat14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119424769#Comment_119424769

and most of that 7% "rise" over 2 years will come back to the governnent in taxes - paye,prsi,usc, vat again

workers will be lucky to see less than half of this gross 7% over 2 years - with inflation at 9+% over one year

Uk central bank now talking about potential for 15% inflation there - who knows how much prices will continue to increase here this winter

exitstageleft

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/news/public-servants-may-plan-national-protest-day-if-government-talks-on-pay-deal-fail-41886250.html

"The WRC offered talks on August 10 or 12 but the Government side said it could not attend until the end of the month."

Is it too much to expect a bit more urgency?

Gusser09

Rather than the govt giving Public Servants a pay rise and pitting one sector again the other they could just get rid of the temporary USC charge....

Everyone would me much happier with that.

😂

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427244#Comment_119427244

and yet it has to be paid for and will further fuel inflation.

Sarn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427233#Comment_119427233

The income tax calculator I used took all of that into account.

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119427244#Comment_119427244

That's not how budgets and spending works and you know that already.

You make a good point though, with the proposed decreases in income tax, govt employees will see more money in their pocket on top of across the board increases and the annual increments.

Unions never mentioned that though.