Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

rogerywalters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119535442#Comment_119535442

Well look hopefully somehow it is 10%

Augme

Being delighted with 5% is an extremely weak position to take.

rogerywalters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119535463#Comment_119535463

Sorry 5% now and 5% next year id be delighted with. I wonder what the highest ever increase was like?

Shuffl_in

A 5% pay 'rise' in response to 10% inflation would mean you're getting a pay cut, it's as simple as that. You can buy less or save less than you could before. You're worse off than you were a year or two ago. I don't think anyone can be happy with it.

We're not going to see deflation. Private sector have and will be getting pay rises far closer to inflation. Increased prices are here to stay. The government have lowballed us and will lowball us again. And make no mistake they're not going to make up the shortfall in a year, or two, or three. This is it. Your pay in 5, 10, 15 years time will be affected by this year's talks.

I doubt they'll even offer us 5%. They lowballed us then ignored us for months. We shouldn't be afraid of responding accordingly if needs be.

Shuffl_in

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119535476#Comment_119535476

Next year's inflation is expected by most to be 5%+. The Tanaiste himself has stated he expects high inflation to continue.

If they give you 5% now and 5% next year they'll call it 10% this year in response to this years' inflation. They'll then call it 5% next year in response to next year's inflation. It's liking them chopping your apple in half and telling you that you now have two. The Unions should refuse to discuss next year and focus on this year. People need some of their spending power back, not for it to be kicked down the road.

rogerywalters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119535478#Comment_119535478

Its not a paycut though , a 5 % pay rise will be a 5 % rise in my pay . The government cant control inflation so i dont know what you expect them to do. Youve also hit the nail on the head " i doubt theyll even offer 5 %". Hence my delight if it was 5 this yr and next.

I think we need to nail down a full 10% now, because I can see them imposing a pay and recruitment freeze sometime next year, and of course that will mean that "regrettably" any increase due in 2023 will be deferred. I can already see the headlines.

rogerywalters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119535506#Comment_119535506

I just think 2.5 initially to 10 wont happen. I dont know how successful a strike would be , not sure how much public support we we would have , suppose we are a very large part of the public!

Shuffl_in

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119535499#Comment_119535499

A 5% rise in your pay when everything has gone up 10% is a pay cut. You have less spending power than before. You can buy less or save less money than you could before. That's a pay cut. And that won't change, inflation won't reverse.

You say the government can't control inflation but their coffers are full because of it. And they're trying to control inflation by making us poorer.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119535509#Comment_119535509

No, of course it won't.

Especially if rather than taking a tough stand and fighting for it, people just meekly go along with what's being offered and accept it.

I don't give a toss about public support to be honest.

rogerywalters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119535521#Comment_119535521

Well public support is what would get you your 10%.

rogerywalters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119535519#Comment_119535519

It is not a paycut. It will cost the government more money to pay us 5% more. We will not be getting a paycut. We will be worse off but it is 100% not a paycut.

Shuffl_in

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119535526#Comment_119535526

Inflation is nothing new, it's an ongoing thing. Generally the government's coffers increase accordingly and they give us our cut. We don't get richer - we maintain our spending power.

This year we have high inflation. The government coffers have increased accordingly but we're not getting our cut.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119535524#Comment_119535524

I'm 35 years in the CS, and there never has been, and never will be public support for any C&PS pay increases. So don't bother looking for it.

What would get it is taking a hard line with the employer. But the will isn't there to do this, and they are fully aware of that.

So, whatever pay rise you get this time round, don't be suprised if it ends up being the only pay rise you get for the next 3 to 5 years.

y0ssar1an22

can the public sector not be run similar to a private sector company?

as in, you still need to deliver ****...be that health, education, security, or whatever? if you dont deliver, you can be sacked.

and a full audit needs to be undertaken. the bloat (if it exists), get rid. the amount of admin seems astounding.

be ruthless, like this fella

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WSatPoD2W-o&ab_channel=InvestorTalk

purple hands

From the IT this morning

"Sources briefed on the issue said that the new offer would be no more than an additional 1 per cent on top of the existing 5 per cent offer between now and the end of next year which is already on the table since early summer."

Well....that's not much of an improvement on the previous offer.

Shuffl_in

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119535635#Comment_119535635

It was said back in July by a union rep that the government's attitude towards it's staff was bordering on contempt. An additional 1% over the two years after ignoring us for months would be nothing less. It's just going to anger unions and members ahead of the ballots.

noodler

Sounds like 6%

pc7

All that stalling for an additional 1%, I’d have thought they’d have gone additional 3%.

jaffa20

It doesn't seem great. I wonder is there flat rate increases as part of the offer for the lower paid.

Shuffl_in

I'm presuming it's 3.5% for this year, which is just too far from our current inflation, and 2.5% for next year, which is unlikely to be enough to deal with next year's inflation.

It should swing people in favour of action if nothing else.

Sierra Oscar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119535734#Comment_119535734

6% is not to be sneezed at for sure, but I'm not sure how it will be received by the unions and their membership. It's over two years, with the Government forecasting the possibility of double digit inflation into next year. It's very much at the bare minimum of union expectations I would imagine.

combat14

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119535704#Comment_119535704

sounds like 3% for next year with inflation projected to be 18% next year in uk (citi bank) we won't be too far behind

not sure will union members accept that with basic every day products like milk alone up 40% in months .. optics for a deal don't look good

rogerywalters

I wonder is it 6 this year? If not then thats a shite offer after months of stalling.

exitstageleft

I don't see why they wouldn't offer the full increase now. It's more likely to get people on board. Waiting until next October is way too long. Sure, it saves some money this year but it's committed for every year after. What's the point of dragging it out?

Kimbot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119536196#Comment_119536196

Spreading the pain has always been part and parcel of pay increases for public servants. Benchmarking/Croke Park Agreement/Haddinghton Road agreement all spread payment increases out over a few years.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119535539#Comment_119535539

no

and you can go back and read any basic explanation as to why it cant and not be just another diversion in this thread

Irish times has the govt offer- another 1%

the message had more propaganda around "public pay increases means less money for everyone else" than it did any actual detail which to me makes the angle the govt is taking very clear.

after the delay and the refusal to discuss, coming back with that is essentially a dare to strike is them calling the bluff that the unions wont do so

waiting on public support for any industrial action is a mugs game.

we either look at the terms and conditions of our sector since 2007 and roll over again or we take action, because awaiting the pat on the head and the thanks has never worked and will never work- look at this thread and every thread about the public sector, barstool mavis beacon champions repeating discussion points from the indo editorials

im in favour of taking any offer in a package with moves that tackle fuel and housing inflation, but any talk that we cant get a fair rise *because* of those things is the govt yet again mistaking its role as employer.

we arent a piggy bank, our terms of employment arent another item for leeway

and particularly when each minister involved would go right out to the cameras and acknowledge the effect of inflation on their constituents as if we weren't living in the same world.

full employment. private sector wages are in runaway in areas we cant hire graduates in. high inflation. high tax take.

if we roll over now, at the end of a road where we have been behind recovery at every step, then as a sector we deserve everything we'll be getting, and public opinion and friendly relations with the govt bedamned.

barryos1505

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119535788#Comment_119535788

6% is laughable. 10% inflation this year and potentially 10% next year so the equivalent of a 14% pay cut. At a time when energy bills are going up 40%, this should be seen as a massive slap in the face and a call to action for all public sector workers.

Shuffl_in

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119536196#Comment_119536196

So they can get away with giving us 3.5% but calling it 6%.

And they'll get to use next year's 2.5% when referring to this year's inflation and then again next year.

crinkley

Can we stop with this pay cut bull, I think it really weakens any argument. That’s like saying I’ve swapped from shopping in Tesco to Aldi and as a result my food bill hasn’t increased so inflation is a myth. No one is getting a pay cut and inflation is effecting everyone. We should be aiming for a pay increase to help keep up with inflation, thinking it will be matched is also ridiculous. People being completely unrealistic are going to be very disappointed when details of the deal are confirmed