Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

PokeHerKing

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541290#Comment_119541290

You need to leave your job and get one in the private sector.

gandalfio

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541197#Comment_119541197

Not all PS's got the 1% in February. Will that be given in October instead?

Sierra Oscar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541107#Comment_119541107

That's fair enough. It's still 7.5% to the end of 2023, with negotiations for a successor agreement beginning towards the end of next year. It's good enough for me.

pc7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541291#Comment_119541291

You'd wonder is this what the government are thinking? there will be no public support for a strike, it gives the narrative of 'greedy, lazy, ps workers' etc. and kicks the bigger bill down the road

Sierra Oscar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541237#Comment_119541237

Where are you seeing mention of a back payment to last February?

oranreilly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541324#Comment_119541324

There is mention of it in the latest Irish Times article, although I didn't actually mention that in the post.

The formula to work out your backdated pay is Salary x 0.67, Result x 1.03 = Lump Sum.

Roughly 8 months (or 2/3rds annual salary) from Feb to October multiplied by the 3 percent.

exitstageleft

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541197#Comment_119541197

Apologies, these figures are in:

Public sector pay talks conclude with unions offered 6.5% increase

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2022/08/30/public-sector-pay-talks-conclude-with-proposals-for-potential-deal/

Pogue eile

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541345#Comment_119541345

Your formula is a bit off, the last multiplier is 0.03 not 1.03.

Sierra Oscar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541345#Comment_119541345

Thanks, just reading that now.

https://www.irishtimes.com/ireland/2022/08/30/public-sector-pay-talks-conclude-with-proposals-for-potential-deal/

The proposals include three phases of pay increases.

The first would be a 3 per cent increase this year, retrospective to February. The second would be a 2 per cent increase from March 2023.

The third would be another 1.5 per cent increase - or a minimum of €750 - from October next year.

This last increase takes into account lower paid workers as it would give them an extra €750 even if that is above 1.5 per cent of their salary.

The backpay is a significant sweetner and will help get it over the line.

exitstageleft

I still think dragging it out in drips and drabs doesn't help anyone. It makes it a news story ever time there's a pay increase so the general public think the PS are getting exorbitant salaries. But splitting it into one percent here and two there makes it feel like the paycheck isn't even changing.

I'd much prefer the whole increase, starting tomorrow, with no backdating. At least then it would be done.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541290#Comment_119541290

How is 7.5%, including the 1% in October from the previous agreement an insult? That's over 16 months.

How much do you want?

onrail

Has it gone under the radar that ESB voted to accept a rise of something like 9% over 3 years a few months back? Not sure how I'd feel if I worked for them

Shuffl_in

The backdated pay won't even amount to an extra weeks pay will it? It's hardly going to swing too many who initially thought the 6.5% was poor.

noodler

Really an additional 5.5 percent over the 1 percent due in Oct but it's all happening in one year, pay rise, Oct, March and Oct again

That with the backpay means I'll vote for this.

hungerjames

Another hiring freeze isn't feasible, just to put that fear to rest.

exitstageleft

Actually, to answer own question above, I guess splitting up the pay increases ultimately nets workers slightly more.

10,000 * 1.03 * 1.01 * 1.02 * 1.015 = 10,770.23

10,000 * 1.075 = 10,750

the-island-man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541321#Comment_119541321

Can't speak for the government and i'm not a stock broker or financial professional but things I am hearing that is worrying:

• China could possibly have a similar issue to the property bubble that happened in the US that caused the 2008 recession
• War in Ukraine
• Tensions over Taiwan
• ECB and all other central banks around the world increasing rates and slowing down or removing quantitative easing altogether.
• Gradual cutting off of Russia as an energy exporter while at the same time Biden's green bill may well make competition for green alternatives (Electric cars, Solar PV, Battery storage and Wind turbines) way more competitive.
• Our national debt (~240 billion) could very easily become unsustainable if economic conditions deteriorate.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541297#Comment_119541297

Already asked and answered. Read the thread.

Do not put any faith in getting any increases next year, including increments.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541401#Comment_119541401

The back pay is a huge sweetner and a win win for both sides really. It'll help the lower paid coming up to the Christmas and help the unions sell this deal. Also the minimum of 750euro rise if the 1.5percent is less than this is good for the lower paid grades too.

I'll be talking to my team and telling them that things are going to get bad soon and I remeber the last downturn and cuts that were imposed at the time. I was a CO and it was savage. But striking changed nothing but losing a few days pay. This is nothing like the last recession. Doesn't have a patch on it.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541481#Comment_119541481

Remind of again of what percentage rise you are looking . Don't have people reading back over thousands of posts.

LegallyAbroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541481#Comment_119541481

Could just not have just answered it again? Or am I expected to read 56 pages of mainly dribble?

Strange approach to discussion.

crinkley

I actually worry for lower paid staff if this isn’t accepted. I’m in a more fortunate position but would dread going into the winter with nothing in the hope some better deal will be struck before the sh** hits the fan if I was a CO

oranreilly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541389#Comment_119541389

You're right, my mistake

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541321#Comment_119541321

Read the last line of that post you quoted...

Play it safe, take the money and live to fight another day.

Only the "fighting another day" never comes, does it? Thats the problem. Which is why we get shafted, over, and over, and over, and over....

All talk, no action.

Risoc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541443#Comment_119541443

Wait, is the October 1% being included in this (6.5%) and the 3% back-dated to February?

That's how the Irish times article reads but that would mean the government only came back with an extra 0.5%. Surely not?

oranreilly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541475#Comment_119541475

Also for anyone earning under ~50k, the 1.01 will be a flat 500 which will multiply to more with the following pay increases. For the purposes of showing the difference that makes, I'll leave the last multiplier as 1.5% rather than the 750 flat that you would also receive for being under the threshold.

So: 10,000 * 1.03 + 500 * 1.02 * 1.015 = 11,181.24

pc7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541525#Comment_119541525

I've no interest in striking Loueze, the backpay element if true will get my vote.

in re: inflation and why it matters to try to match it *over extended periods of time*

firstly I presume that ppl generally agree that salaries generally have to do this otherwise they lose real value and in the medium term that's unsustainable- if you don't agree with this we have nothing to discuss tbh

secondly- the public sector pay deals happen across the board every few years and we have been chasing restoration for almost a decade. the pay and conditions of the majority of public sector workers are no better than they were for a worker in that grade equivalent 15 years ago (give or take). the dribs and drabs we have been negotiating the past five years are restorations that the government agreed to as part of FEMPI that they simply never unwound. This leaves aside the additional pension costs imposed.

if you can't take that into account- that public sector terms and conditions have essentially a decade of inflation- not just the current extraordinary levels- to take into account, then i don't think you are looking at a longer term picture.

I dont think the union should be matching current levels of inflation. but if you start measuring across different jobs/experience/qualifications the levels of pay on offer for roles in public vs private sector over the past several years you will find that it's a steady degradation vs going rate.

taking aside any debate on any given role expectations and workloads in public vs private that's the situation we are in after a steady drip-drip-drip of govt deals that the union should never have accepted. we are not starting from level here we are starting miles behind and we cannot get qualified staff at this stage. every deal we allow to happen on the cheap further exacerbates this until you get exactly the public service that you deserve- a cheap one, expected to provide the likes of fliball and tonesjones and salonfire on this thread with what they want, when they want it, with a level of argument and analysis that would embarrass a twelve year old.

the government *should not want this scenario* but they are FG and they do.

the public *should not want this scenario* and I'd hope that they don't- but newstalk and the indo and lamentably even rte do not provide the analysis and debate required to show what has been happening.

the taxpayer- including ourselves- *should not want this scenario* but understandably they are an easy sell

the only people who should want this scenario are people like we see on this thread- they have an aversion to government, especially an aversion to rules that control private profit activity, and they have an aversion to the concept of social costs incurred on economic activities.

we have never been america and we have never been moscow, and only idiots want us to be either. we are flooded with posters who have all day to demand the former while trying to convince us we are the latter, when in fact we are what we are paying for- a very, very **** effort at being finland.

the service cannot fill roles from technical/professional panels at the moment, we simply do not compete with salaries and working conditions on offer. if that makes you happy, then continue to describe increases below inflation as a deal we should be thankful for.

personally and professionally- because i am trying to run a team resourced at 33% of scoped staff here- it's a disaster that we keep trying to achieve govt aims with uncompetitive conditions. the turnover of the staff we do somehow get is murderous. only a fool could fail to trace the reasons why.

thelibertyboy

https://www.forsa.ie/wrc-proposes-public-pay-package/

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119541529#Comment_119541529

No. The new deal is 6.5%. 1% from the old deal will be paid in October. So 7.5% over 16 14 Months from October to December 2023.