Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119558085#Comment_119558085

Oh so now the narrative has changed. It's not that they can't buy a house, it's because it's only an "average" house.

Scoundrel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119555093#Comment_119555093

Idiotic comments aside what is your solution? What is your alternative?

crinkley

The narrative didn’t change it was just pointed out to you how ridiculous it is to say that if two civil servants above a certain grade pooled their money they could buy a house in say Longford, doesn’t really help when the majority of departments and buildings are in dublin

o1s1n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119558109#Comment_119558109

You selective omitted the 'nowhere near where they work' part.

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119558265#Comment_119558265

That's why there should be a Dublin weighting. Why do you think unions don't push for this for their Dublin employees?

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119558266#Comment_119558266

I already said there should be a Dublin weighting. Aside from Dublin, there's no reason why non Dublin based employees should live far from where they work.

Every city, town and village has three bed semis.

crinkley

I’ve always said there should be a dublin weighting, and I say it again as someone who doesn’t live in Dublin. One union rep told me because there would be no appetite amongst members to have a dual system, but if new entrants could be screwed over to protect those already in the service I dunno why members, especially those living and working in dublin, aren’t pushing for this, it’s not novel it happens in the UK.

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119556616#Comment_119556616

Do enlighten me I said the borrowing of this money has gone up by 7 times am I wrong in that ? Is that not what the article states?

jaykay2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119558265#Comment_119558265

You could buy a fabulous house in Longford for the price discussed above.

The real issue is that the civil service should be trying to move departments out of Dublin again. Lets not call is decentralisation though this time as it has a lot of toxicity attached to it.

No reason for putting all these departments in Dublin where people can't afford to live.

crinkley

Personally I don’t think moving offices out of dublin will help. Many people for various reasons won’t want to move. Hybrid working should be fully embraced and hubs established around the country with the use of these being allowed to count towards your office days with an anchor day once a fortnight or month depending on business needs. This may encourage more people to move out without the need and hassle of relocating large sections of departments

moving offices out of dublin doesn’t address the need to provide public services for dublin - which are greatly needed such as nursing, teachers etc so this is where I think an additional allowance or something should be paid for those working and living in the capital

Strider84

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119558751#Comment_119558751

A lot of our debt was refinanced and locked in at lower interest rates for the long term when borrowing was cheap. The increase in interest rates will only apply to the portion of the debt that has to be refinanced.

The cost of our borrowing won't increase drastically overnight.

jaykay2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119559248#Comment_119559248

Of course working from home etc should be rolled out and made available to everyone, but at the same time, people can't have it every way. If you want to live in Dublin, you are going to have to pay Dublin prices for accommodation / mortgages. That is the premium people have to pay if they want to live there.

Regarding public services availability in Dublin, obviously any that are needed to be physically in Dublin would need to stay there, but the vast majority of offices / departments could be moved to places where people could more easily afford housing or could get much more substantial home for their money. People wanting to stay in Dublin and keep all the jobs in Dublin are the reason accommodation /housing is so expensive.

For the towns that got departments due to decentralisation, it has been a great move for people from the area and for people who have to waste significantly less time commuting.

Greenlamp21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119558603#Comment_119558603

It wont work. Should there also be a 2nd weighting for Cork, then Galway and so on

The UK system is different because its London, Dublin is not in any way comparable to London

crinkley

No I wouldn’t propose more than one weighting system. I too won’t think it will work because others would complain too much but it’s just personally what I would do. Cork and Galway aren’t experiencing the same problems with retaining vital staff

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119558064#Comment_119558064

Actually most CS jobs are outside of Dublin, and have been for a long time now.

But given that pretty much everything which can practicably be decentralised already has been, we have to offer T&Cs that will attract and retain talented staff especially graduates.

Also you can't decentralise the gardai, nurses, ambulance drivers, teachers... we will always need large numbers of public servants to work in Dublin and the other cities, and people need to be able to afford to live near where they work. The idea of commuting crazy distances is over, it's no longer affordable, nobody wants the terrible effects it has on their family life, and we have to get our national transport emissions down. People who work remotely and are rarely in the office can afford to live further away, but WFH is just not an option for huge numbers of public sector jobs.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119558185#Comment_119558185

Clearly you haven't read Nineteen Eighty-Four.

The idiotic comment was the one I was replying to. Victory, my arse.

The alternative is to stop signing up to pay deals which erode our T&Cs and leave us worse off. Every "deal" in the last 15 years has left us worse off.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119559123#Comment_119559123

Dublin is where the government is. The head offices of departments are always going to have to be in Dublin. (Yes FF idiotically tried to move some HQs away, this was really an attempt to sideline certain departments and of course they saw right through it - like most things about that vote-buying plan, it was totally unworkable). Most civil servants already work outside of Dublin and have done since the 90s wave of decentralisations.

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119559320#Comment_119559320

Why won't it work? There is already allowances for working on the Islands and medical staff used to be given allowances for working in regional hospitals. It won't work because the unions don't want it to work. They want Dublin rates of pay across the entire country.

Scoundrel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119559352#Comment_119559352

So your solution is no pay deals no increases nothing as usual. How would you suggest PS workers achieve pay rises that are satisfactory to you without signing up for pay deals? How does this latest deal erode our T&C's exactly in recent times the unions have achieved pay restoration and the reduction of hours from 37 to 35 how would you have achieved this?

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119559123#Comment_119559123

You could buy a fabulous house in the vast, vast majority of the country at that price.

Even in Dublin, a 2-bed apartment is within that price range.

House prices are just another piece of the unions lies and propaganda. They are as bent as a two bob note, full of double speak.

LegallyAbroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119559368#Comment_119559368

It's also where the judiciary, legislature, and diplomatic corps are so certain central departments will always need to be there.

LegallyAbroad

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119559373#Comment_119559373

What weighting would you give to Dublin staff?

Scoundrel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119559390#Comment_119559390

Ah I've heard it all now the nationwide housing crisis is just a trade union lie! Your commitment to being a bootlicker for your betters really knows no bounds.

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119559570#Comment_119559570

Are you suggesting the nationwide house sales survey is incorrect? Have you got figures to contradict the figures I gave?

I hope basic data analysis is not part of your role.

Alonzo Mosley

I know it's slightly off topic but there is a remote working tax benefit available for employees, and there is another scheme which see employers give a €3.20 daily remote working allowance to employees working at home, which is free of tax, PRSI and USC. Only 10% of employers and I'm presuming 0% in the public service are paying this.

I don't want to cause a Private sector can't afford this blah blah' v Public sector debate, I am just pointing out both sectors should pay this if affordable. Look at all the money that was saved/unused by Civil Service Departments during lockdown. Savings on heat,light,allowances, foreign travel etc. Why cant' these savings be passed to both Public and Private Sector workers instead of making us all submit a claim through Revenue for pittance??

08122019

In addition to lying about the housing prices I heard the unions are responsible for increasing the fuel and energy prices and are going to return them to regular levels once the pay increases go through.

Quitelife

With yearly Increments and this 6.5% many public servents will get a 12/13% over 2 years.

Thats not a bad deal to be fair , its only those on top of their scales will only get the 6.5% , most of those people are on 60/70/80K

fliball123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119559288#Comment_119559288

if we have to borrow more it will also be at the new higher rate. Also at rollover time our debt will become more expensive to service.

Scoundrel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119559593#Comment_119559593

Give it over ya melt you're the one claiming that the housing crisis is union propaganda.

kippy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119559960#Comment_119559960

Completely factually incorrect on a number of points but sure lets not let actual facts get in the way of the standard public service bashing that goes on.