Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

Sam the Sham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119818145#Comment_119818145

They can now petition to have the ASC refunded. That was not the case with the PRD, which was in place for years before it was renamed for the second time and the possibility of refunds was put in place.

I continue to maintain that PRD/ASC has nothing to do with pensions. If it did, the contributions would be ringfenced for that purpose and those without pension entitlements would never have had to pay it. It's simply a paycut by another name. Or a surtax on PS workers for having the temerity to serve the public.

P. S. Between pension contributions, PRSI, and ASC, I pay over 16% of my gross salary.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119818308#Comment_119818308

dont bother replying to that poster they are shameless

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119818308#Comment_119818308

I'm glad to see you correct the record. That's not quite the impression you give in your first post now was it?

So now your including PRSI in order to fit the lie of paying 12%+ pension contributions. Everyone pays PRSI and its not just for pensions, it's for eyecare, dental and other benefits.

Taking the thresholds of ASC and pension contributions below which no deduction is taken means that actual % taken from your salary is not all that different to what someone in the private sector has to pay. Which is a flat rate with no deduction free earnings allowed.

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119821540#Comment_119821540

Yeah, how dare someone challenge, question and correct the misinformation that goes on in threads like these.

I am happy to have corrected the previous poster.

At least some of use can see through the coordinated propaganda from unions and employees.

I accept there is low paid civil service at the beginning of their career. That doesn't mean all state employees have it badly off.

Sam the Sham

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119821879#Comment_119821879

For most of its existence, the PRD/ASC has been paid by all in the PS, regardless of pension entitlements. And that fact alone shows that it never had anything to do with pensions. An acquaintance with the history of its imposition confirms this. The gov't were originally going to institute an additional pay cut but were worried about the effect on existing PS pensioners, whose pensions would also be cut. The PRD (which had a different name then) was a way of instituting a pay cut without it affecting pensioners.

I included PRSI because my pension integrates the State Contributory Pension. That means that part of my PRSI is going to my pension. Take out the PRSI and I'm still paying 12.4% of my gross income toward my pension as well as a portion of what I pay in PRSI.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119821879#Comment_119821879

Everyone pays PRSI and its not just for pensions, it's for eyecare, dental and other benefits.

I pay PRSI but am not entitled to any of the above! More ignorance.

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119822214#Comment_119822214

For which you pay a much reduced PRSI rate. More lies.

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119822010#Comment_119822010

You are either very well paid to be paying 12%+ or your also including the Child and Spouse pension contribution as well, which is a separate additional benefit.

Someone on 60,000 in the PS/CS pays around 9.24% towards their occupational pension (ASC and Superannuation) when thresholds are taken into account, excluding child/spouse. That's very reasonable and very normal for most workers.

I don't know why you think you are being picked on because of your occupation.

I shudder to think how low the contribution would be without the ASD. Today's PS/CS pensioner's are stealing a pension, their contributions must have been buttons.

Oh and I see that the propanda machine did not mention the reduction in pensionable earnings with the increased Contributory State Pension announced in the Budget. 🤔

Sam the Sham

I didn't say I was "being picked on." I said: the Pensions Levy/PRD/ASC has never had anything to do with pensions. It was just a label that the gullible public (e.g. you) would buy and that would enable the government to cut PS pay a third time (in the economic crisis years) without riling up PS pensioners. That's simply a factual matter and I notice you don't really dispute it. The money has never been ring-fenced or invested for the benefit of those paying it, which is what the government would do if this were really about shoring up the PS pensions. Instead it just goes into general government coffers where it can be used for such things as bailing out profligate private-sector corporations that were too clueless to perform even basic risk-benefit analysis. And for the first decade or so, everyone in the PS was liable for it, regardless of whether they had a pension entitlement or not. Only in the last year or two, when they changed the name did they realise that that particular fact was giving the game away: that it wasn't ever about pensions.

If there's anyone here who has a "victim complex," though, it's quite clearly you. I'm sorry you feel so hard done by. However, I see no reason to continue trying to talk reasonably with someone with such a clear and clearly baseless animus against the public sector. I guarantee when the police or firefighters come to bail you out, or you're being cared for in a hospital, you hold your tongue about all of this. Or do you just berate them for being parasites while they're saving your arse?

Turtyturd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119821897#Comment_119821897

As one half of the tweedle-dumb and tweedle-dee act who have spewed nothing but sh!t and misinformation for months in this thread it’s hilarious to watch you try and come across as some paragon of truth. At least your partner had the cop on to bow out when he reached a certain level of stupidity.

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119822950#Comment_119822950

If pensions are paid out of current expenditure then it's logical that the deductions taken from you are put back into the current account.

Providing facts is not having a victim complex.

I see you did use that old trick of using the contributions of two separate benefits and pass it off as the amount your paying for "my pension", singular.

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119823058#Comment_119823058

As far as I can see, nobody has refuted the figures and facts I provided.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119822523#Comment_119822523

Don't accuse people of lying just because they are correctly pointing out your ignorance and falsehoods.

It's not my job to educate you however, go look up what the marginal rates of class A and B PRSI are. Class B contributions are all but useless so I'm paying for nothing. A Class A contribution record leading to a full contributory OAP is the best "investment" going.

griffdaddy

Do Civil Servants still skip the fourth point on the scale? Or did that change with the introduction of new scales previously?

yabadabado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119822523#Comment_119822523

How is that poster lying?

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119823931#Comment_119823931

By not mentioning that his rate of PRSI is reduced due to more limited benefits.

Quick to moan at not being entitled to the benefits I mentioned.

Not so quick to mention his prsi deduction is lower.

hungerjames

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119823832#Comment_119823832

The New Entrants deal is still in effect, some of my COs got it earlier this year.

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119823832#Comment_119823832

Ask your local HR

griffdaddy

Okay thanks, good to know!

runawaybishop

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119823832#Comment_119823832

Not every grade skips 4 and 8. Co, eo and ao do, heos do not if I remember right. You'd need to go and dig out the original circular.

Edit: I went digging and found an old post-

 it only applies to grades that were reduced under circular 18/2010, circular 07/2019 lays it out - skips for only those grades for new entrants who joined after 2011

Grades affected were ao, eo, co, so, services attendant and cleaner.

griffdaddy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119826439#Comment_119826439

Ah fair enough. No good to me so, Thanks

nhg

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119824224#Comment_119824224

New Entrants also skip point 8 as part of the same deal

Gumbo

When are the payments a being made, does anyone know?

Icbaby

Already paid by NSSO and if there is any amendments (like overtime etc) they hope to that paid by end of nov.

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119827546#Comment_119827546

LA here. No payments made as of today (payday).

SouthWesterly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119827604#Comment_119827604

If your la, you need to contact your own payroll

Gumbo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119827934#Comment_119827934

That’s a given. Just wasn’t sure if there was an official date of when it will be sorted.

I assume they are processing it currently. It may take some time.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119823959#Comment_119823959

The benefits are not "more limited" they are practically non-existent

Marginal rate is 4% for both, it used to be 7% for class A, the reduced classes were not lowered in line with the reductions to class A employee PRSI.

The 4% is not applicable to all pay, but I'm still paying PRSI but getting nothing in return.

From someone who constantly indulges in misrepresentation and half-truths, your post is the epitome of hypocrisy.

You can't falsely accuse people of lying and hope to retain any semblance of credibility (not that there was any)

salonfire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119828081#Comment_119828081

How very cute of you. Comparing the marginal rate of both, not mentioning how much lower the threshold is for contributions to start for Class A.

So I'm right then.

The amount of PRSI you pay is less than the vast majority of employees.

The benefits are not non-existent. You won't be made redundant either so why would you be looking at the job seekers type protections and thinking you are missing out? Narrows the gap between Class A and others some more.

yabadabado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119828025#Comment_119828025

Every payroll will be different so won't be one official date given.

All depends who/where the payroll is processed.