Public Pay Talks - see mod warning post 4293

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993269#Comment_120993269

Plenty.

Why would I share it with an anon on a message board though?

granturismo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993266#Comment_120993266

There is no date set yet for talks. Some unions have started canvassing members/workplace reps for proposals to bring to the talks when they do start.

There are many rumours but no facts as to why the talks between unions and employer havent started yet. One rumour is the government will wait until budget 2024 is announced this October.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994332#Comment_120994332

There is no rush to start the talks I suppose. Current deal not set to run until October. Any new deal wouldn't kick in until 2024. Waiting until the budget is announced makes sense. People criticise the last deal. Taking the energy credits into account was fair. The backdating was great to have going into the winter.

I don't know what to realistically expect from this deal. My guess would be 5% over two years maybe? It won't match inflation and nor should it. There will be an adjustment in later years to catch the scale back up.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994411#Comment_120994411

I was one who advocated for accepting the last deal. I think this time it's different. We are being told our economy is booming. Nah forget about 5 percent this time. I'll be looking for closer to 8 percent over the two years. You're correct in saying that rises shouldn't match inflation but they need to go some way to offsetting it.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994441#Comment_120994441

With inflation not stopping, 8% might be fairer. Likely, I will just follow whatever the Unions recommend. The increments are always so small, I barely notice them. They obviously stack up over time tho.

Gusser09

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994490#Comment_120994490

This is it. I don't see the cost of living coming back down at all. Ever. Not with groceries etc that's for sure. The supermarkets are gouging. Interest rates will fall.

Salaries will need to rise in both Sectors though at this point.

skidmarkoner

Why are energy credits taking into consideration every household received this it's not even relevant to our pay?

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993069#Comment_120993069

So you advocate for the living standards of public servants to continue to be eroded??

NB Taxes rise in line with inflation.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994946#Comment_120994946

Because its a massive part of inflation. You can't say the cost of living crisis is out of control and inflation is X, we deserve Y increase without taking into account the cost of living measures the government have put in place. I would have thought that is reasonable and obvious.

Sierra Oscar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120993187#Comment_120993187

Formal talks will get under way in the Autumn, they started earlier last year as the extenuating circumstances clause was invoked due to the spiraling levels of inflation. We'll hear more in September.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994310#Comment_120994310

Because people who make claims and then refuse to back them up get dismissed as bullshitters.

I served on a branch committee for several years, we got free sambos at our monthly meetings 😮 and I even got to the annual conference a couple of times which was OK but a long couple of days. You got a dinner and one glass of wine and anything else you paid for yourself.

Nobody was getting what you were claiming to go on protests, if you went on a protest you walked there, bought or brought your own sambo and did it in your own time off the clock.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994411#Comment_120994411

Why shouldn't it?

There will be an adjustment in later years to catch the scale back up.

🙄 If you believe that... jesus wept.

What's lost in terms of living standards is lost forever.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995588#Comment_120995588

You don't have to match inflation with every deal. Some years you will get a raise above inflation. Some years its below. Theres absolutely no way we're going to 7% this year to match inflation and then another 7% last year. Jesus wept if you think we will.

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995496#Comment_120995496

Tackle inflation instead, it is within government ability to do so by reducing what the government gets from the highest cost items in the basket of goods that make up our inflation figures. The "Necessaries" such as food, heat & light. We tax the user, not the supplier in most cases. Increasing public sector pay in line with inflation leads to a knock on in the private sector which then drives up the labour costs, thus increasing inflation further until eventually the economy tanks, like it did in 1975, 1981, 2000 and 2008.

Accept the causes of high costs contributing are as a result of the Russian Invasion of Ukraine, and do everything within its power to bring that conflict to a swift end (by supporting Ukraine).

Otherwise all we'll see is FEMPI Mk2.

I'm still waiting for restoration of what was promised in T2016. We never got it. I only threw out the CPSU flyer detailing the promised rates recently We're still playing catchup. I only realised last night I was on LSI2, because of all the messing around with pay rates, entry points and extra points, not to mention marking time because we were lucky enough to be earning more than 30k!

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995560#Comment_120995560

You'd prefer then that I give info to some anonomous person on the interweb, jeopardising my job and doxing myself, just to prove a point?

I also served on a branch committee.

While the ordinary members got SFA, people who become branch officers have made a happy time for themselves on union funded weekends away. Once the accounts balance at year end, everyone is happy. Some unions must be worse than others.

bren2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995884#Comment_120995884

I've gone to annual conferences. I have not seen anything you're suggesting. Free meal and glass of wine/beer. I got a free USB stick as well. There were drinks in the evening but I paid for everything myself.

skidmarkoner

They are temporary measures to ease the burden and not create a cliff edge as such. Inflation was never going down and now people's salaries have been devalued.

In addition it seems near impossible to recruit new entrant with penny's they are offering at CO and EO level. A real deal would see alot of issue ironed out and have a knock on effect to the country as a whole.

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120996276#Comment_120996276

Rather than increasing entry level pay at lower grades, it seems the plan instead is to phase out the lower grades completely, and merge them with other grades, same as they did with Staff Officer.

skidmarkoner

I suppose in the long term they could replace us all with AI anyway

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120995808#Comment_120995808

When did we ever get a raise above inflation?

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120997244#Comment_120997244

Technically, we did when Inflation was below zero, and we were getting pay raises in stages. But its purely momentary. Because unless you are earning an extra 20 euro for every hundred you were earning in 2016 (ignoring increments) it's not happening. We were to get a 10% increase in T2016, then the bank thing happened, and fempi so suddenly pay was reduced.

If you are given a 10% raise, then your pay is reduced by 3%, you are not getting pay restoration if you get another 3% raise. We are being fooled to suggest we are.

Example.

Gross pay in 2010 of €400. Add 12% you get €448. With me so far? Good. Now we reduce pay by 3% which brings us to €434.26. Ok, it sucks but at least I'm not back to €400. Right?

Then the financial crisis is over, and I'm getting the 3% back! Yay. So my pay is back to.... €447.60 Huh? How did that happen? Where did the 40c go?

Oh and while all that was happening inflation has increased so what you could have bought for €100 when you were getting paid €400 now costs €120, meaning to maintain the lifestyle you were used to when you were earning €400 in reality now costs you €480.

But hey, pay restoration, right?

And all because ICTU call the shots at pay talks, and the terms are dictated to government by employers bodies before hand, and the same managers your union was fighting last week for T&Cs is now advising ICTU to ignore your unions issues to secure their support. Don't forget that because TD pay is tied to senior public sector grades, when PS managers get a raise, so do the TDs, and the print media will print big stories every time they get a raise, further widening the Private/public sector divide.

Its a mess.

BusTrainCar

Top of my scale. Not making ends meet. For the first time in over 20 years I have appetite for industrial action if new pay agreement isn't around 8% to 10% over two years. I don't qualify for any welfare benefits. I believe Public Sector pay and private sector pay should get this increase. Government running massive €80billion plus surplus. Old economic models saying increasing wages in inflationary period are flawed. More self employed individuals now so pay increases don't have the same effect. I literally have nothing to show for having started work at 15, getting college degree and working full-time since finishing college. No inheritance to prop me up. Just circling the plug hole before default on everything. I just don't know what to default on first.... Rent, Crèche, Credit Union, Credit Cards, utilities, private health insurance gone, no holiday, savings gone, no watch, 5 year old mobile phone, no new clothes. I haven't had a car in over a year. I can't be the only person this is happening too! If I and other workers start defaulting on my outgoings the rest of economic society will suffer. The landlords, banks, crèche owners, retail sector etc will suffer. The government have the funds to prevent a negative spiral effect. The message needs to conveyed to them hence why industrial action is required. Public Sector used to be the leaders in this area but unions and workers are brow beaten after austerity.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120997490#Comment_120997490

What’ year/period are you referring to, that we got rises in stages above inflation?

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120997806#Comment_120997806

2009 & 2010 when we were still getting T2016, even though inflation was below zero. It was 6% over 21 months while inflation went from 4.3% in Jan 08 to -3.9% We got the first 3.5% in 2009, think it all went wonky after that and govt pulled the "emergency measures" clause, but we still technically got a raise higher than inflation.

Indestructable

I firmly believe the PS should be getting a raise in the region of 10-15% over two years.

I've moved into the private sector for a better salary but before I left I saw the effects of low-moderate wages. The PS cannot recruit and retain staff.

I also hate the notion that stagnating wages should be used to beat down inflation. That's well and good but when Irish banks are actively working against the ECB in the inflation fight, they would be my first target. Not wages in the public sector.

doc22

my guess any social welfare increases will be matched in the public sector on a percentage basis(a tenner on sw is near a 5% increase in a year), and if it's not matched I'll be leaving the union....

caviardreams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120998643#Comment_120998643

The union don't really care tbh. Think Forsa have been very weak lately. But yes, could do with the 20 euro a month union fees to compensate for inflation!

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120998084#Comment_120998084

At the same time as the Pension Related Deduction took a big bite out of our paycheques that has never been restored?

Sierra Oscar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120994411#Comment_120994411

Talks will get underway in the lead up to the budget. They need to know for the budget what funding is required to be allocated in the budget itself for 2024.

Dohvolle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120999627#Comment_120999627

Exactly, and no interest in getting rid of it either. Its basically a tax on PS workers.