High IQ Children and Sociability

Kintarō Hattori

Hey Folks,

I'm wondering if anyone else is in a similar situation where they've been told their child has a high IQ and where said child struggles socially. Our 5 year old did the last part of the Assessment of Needs some time ago and the psychologists report stated that she has a high IQ (she took some standardised testing) and that explains some of her behavior to us. She's a sponge for information and I always have to read to her at the dinner table. When we're out in the playground and she's on the swings she asks me 'tell me something'. At the moment she's interested in space and history.

From an early age though we knew she was socially awkward and well she doesn't really know how to play with other kids. She likes very small kids/babies (she's quite caring) and older kids but really has no interest in kids her own age. At playschool she'll join in activities momentarily but then will go off to do her own thing. We have her in gymnastics once a week which she loves and have her booked in for some summer camps.

At this stage socialising is so important for them, learning to take turns, reading social cues etc. We want to make sure we give her all the support she needs so I'm hoping to hear from some folk in a similar situation. We've been told she doesn't have autisim or ADHD, just that she's intelligent and socially awkward.

rom

double post

Kintarō Hattori

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119182775#Comment_119182775

I ownly see you saying 'double post' rom. What had you said?

CPTM

Do you think she's bored with kids her own age, and maybe that's why she prefers the challenge of interacting with older kids or taking care of younger kids? If she's 5 years old I suppose she'll start school in September will she?

It might be worth trying to build out the network to find other High IQ kids her own age and setting up play dates which are more challenging to see if boredom is the big problem. She seems to be a child that gets most enjoyment during the learning phase of something new, and once it's familiar boredom sets in. Have you ever seen her in a play environment with other kids who are equally as gifted?

She's in a really great position because it sounds like you're doing all the right things, and anyways all that behavior like waiting her turn or reading social cues might just come a little later than it would with other children. But I would certainly try finding her a group of friends who are equally as curious, intelligent and bright so that maybe they can spark off each other. Just in case it's boredom which is at play.

Kintarō Hattori

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119183707#Comment_119183707

Hi CPTM,

That had crossed my mind. She does seem to want to play with the older kids ahead of those her own age (when on our estate). She is indeed starting school in September so I'm hopefully that may be beneficial socially to her and not actually raise any issues.

I'd love to build out a network but how does one go about that? Unfortunately in my own family there's no-one of a similar age and anyone we know has multiple kids so they don't really do play dates. I've never seen her with other kids who would have a similar IQ as we only recently discovered this, so it's still new to us.

We do indeed want to do all we can for her. We want to make sure we don't leave her wanting in any areas.

Big Bag of Chips

My lad who is now 16 would have been exactly as you describe your daughter. He's still socially awkward and doesn't seem too bothered by it.

You just have to go with it, and let her become her own person too. I tried various things to socialise my fella. Signed him up to various things that "would be great for him". He inevitably gave up most of them. The one thing he stuck with is drama.

He's incredibly popular. His teachers tell me his classmates love him. Are intrigued by him - and he's oblivious. Doesn't really care who likes him or who doesn't.

The one thing I found with my fella was, he was very academically intelligent but emotionally he was behind his peers. He didn't understand that 7 year old boys enjoy rough and tumble for example. So when rough and tumble was going on in school, he thought he was picked on/bullied.

CTYI is something you can look into. But she'll do her own thing. She'll eventually find her "people".. Most likely in secondary school. Sign her up to a few things that you think she might have interest in, but don't force her to become who you think she should be, comparing her to her peers. Just let her become herself.

CPTM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119184371#Comment_119184371

When she starts school she might naturally be drawn to some of the more intelligent kids in the class. You'll likely meet parents as time goes on, or the teacher can help link you up with others who might even have a similar problem. The network won't come about over night but if you keep an eye out for science camps, or events organised at your local library or in museums for kids, you'll start to find kids and parents who are similar.

Here is an example - suitable for 5 - 12 year olds (Maybe browse through the website to see if anything close to you is happening soon)

https://junioreinsteinsscienceclub.com/events/weekend-nature-science-the-k-club-11th-12th-june-9am-1pm-each-day/

I would also recommend some theater experience with a local drama club. A friend of ours has a 4 year old who was very shy and not talking much around others (but very intelligent and able) and they've seen a huge improvement in her social skills after just 3 or 4 months of drama school.

shesty

Social skills will become a bigger thing in school for her.She's 5 now, she is well ready to start.I wouldn't do much for her over the summer.Feed her thirst for information with outings and that (I have a sponge of an 8 year old here too), and if you can get her to meet and play with others, then great, but September will come and things will change for her.The yard is a challenge all by itself, Aistear, group work, being able to perform tasks, and take part in class discussions in a much more structured environment.These will all be new challenges for her in September.

I'd leave her be to be honest, and be prepared to give things time in Sept.My second is just finishing infants, and I can see a mile away...they all move at their own pace.

markpb

School will almost definitely help with her social interactions and if she goes to an after-school, she’ll also be able to mix with children of various ages instead of just other 5 year olds.

However, if she’s above average, school might be frustrating for her. Junior Infants are expected to be able to count to 5 by year end, for example. If that happens, her teacher will be very important. A great teacher will realise her ability and challenge her. An average teacher will realise her ability but be unable to help effectively. Then there’s the third kind of teacher. Watch out for this, bored and frustrated children need an outlet.

Someone mentioned CTY earlier - they’re excellent and you should definitely contact them. Not only are the courses unusual and interesting, it’s also a chance got her to meet likeminded children. They’ve branched out geographically so there’s a better chance of one being near to you.

Wanderer78

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058249624/high-iq-children-and-sociability

who assessed her for autism, and what type of assessments did they do, i.e. were they approved assessments, cause shes showing signs of such?

from a spectrumor!

Still stihl waters 3

Maybe the child is happy and doesn't care that she's socially awkward

martinedwards

She'll be grand.

the intelligencia look out for each other!

My eldest sounds like you described. In nursery school they had an inspection. at 4 he challenged the inspector to a game of chess....

he made friends in primary school, and then going into secondary he made a new bunch. what is weird is his best mate through primary went to a different secondary so they grew apart. at Uni? they both went to Durham and did masters degrees in Physics!

He's fanatical about sport. rugby at school, rowing at uni, now cycling.

#2 son was far more social..... still really academic.... his sport? ultimate frisbee! Ridiculously musical, can play anything he touches.... he's now a Doctor in North Wales

#3..... graduates with finance 1st class honours on 1st July..... Captained the Uni footy team to winning to Crowley cup (Irish universities) He's VERY social.....

#4 is waiting for exam results and plans to go to Bath to study Civil engineering. She cannot walk past a small child without wanting to pick them up. she's been like that since she was about 4..... very driven to beat her brothers at anything she can. she was Music ambassador at school, conducted the orchestra in the Ulster hall (you know... the hall where Stairway to heaven was 1st played live....) as to sport... she isn't sporty AT ALL. so.... lets find a sport that No-one does.... Hammer. Gold medal at the area, so qualifies for Ulsters.... where she disappears without trace down the leader-board, but none of her brothers got to Ulsters so a major win! She can be socially awkward too. not great at picking up cues and though we've never had need to have her tested (other than dyslexia) we're pretty sure that shes on the Asperger spectrum (both wife and I have worked in Education and have dealt with kids on the spectrum and see so many similarities.

but you know what?

they're all super bright.... WAY smarter than me... they're all different, they're all happy.

Enjoy your little one. challenge her. see what interests her and encourage it.....

funny, but we realised recently that with the boys.... the toys that they had as kids......

#1.... telescopes, Galileo thermometer, ..... Masters in Astro-Physics

#2.... skeletons, cutaway body models.... no notion of medicine till he was 16... but hes a Dr now

#3... 1st word was ball.... footy mad and only ever wanted a job where he could wear a sharp suit. starts in KPMG in September

we weren't steering them at all.... just weird how things ended up!

Big Bag of Chips

Children aren't "expected to be able to count to 5" by the end of junior infants. They are taught to compute up to 5. Adding, taking away etc. Yes it might seem simple, but not all kids are naturally bright and the curriculum has to start somewhere. My lad had taught himself to read before starting school. He was also able to multiple and divide. But he still enjoyed listening to the teacher teaching things he already knew, but teaching them a different way! In 6th class he used to do maths concepts using different methods. He used to ask his teacher if it was OK to do it his own way. Teacher said "Yes, so long as you can show me you also know my way".

Despite having some excellent teachers and exceptional ability my fella hates school. We've even had the will he/won't he leave at 16 talk (He's now 16 and sticking it out with his eye on the prize - college and a good career) He cannot understand why he has to go there. Cannot understand why he has to stay there for hours and then be sent home with more work to do. School, although it should be a breeze for him is actually an everyday battle. We have had days where he's just point blank refused to go in. Teachers in school either rave about him at PT meetings or have no time for him. People think having an exceptionally bright child is a blessing. It can turn out to be just as difficult as having a child who struggles academically. There are little or no resources or provisions for exceptionally bright children. Schools struggle enough to get resource hours for children who are struggling. Bright children are not a priority. Bright children who can self motivate are a teachers dream. Bright children who struggle for whatever reason have nothing to help them.

My fella should get 600 points in his leaving with minimal effort. I know he will actually get about 400 points and won't put any effort in whatsoever. He has picked subjects he has a keen interest in, so I am hoping that coupled with a bit of maturity might focus him a bit. But what I have learned after 16 years of this is - it's irrelevant what I, his dad, his teachers, his friends etc want for him and from him. He will follow his own path. And make his own decisions. We have tried everything and have realised he is his own person. We can make suggestions, and guide him, but at the end of the day it is ultimately down to him.

He tolerated primary school. Had very few friends. The day he started secondary school he met a group and has been great friends with them to this day. As I said previously he's socially awkward, but seems very popular despite this. But equally he's not bothered. If you like him and want to hang around with him, that's fine. If you don't like him and think he's a weirdo.. He's equally fine with that! One teacher told me she wished she was more like him when she was 16. She said he doesn't try to get people to like him. It's not his goal. She said it's a rare thing to see in 16 year olds who are all trying to find their place and are desperate to "fit in".

Flinty997

GAA worked with one of mine. But not another. One wants to sit apart.

Have to 100% agree with the above poster. If the child wants to go the thing you encourage them they will do it, if they don't they won't. Parent will have little influence in the latter case.

Schools don't have the resources to give the super bright kids any extra time. Even though school will flag it to you. We felt sending the child that was flagged off to special school they would hate it since they hated attention and would do better having mixed with their local peer group who will then support them in out of school situations. Which thus far has worked out with GAA. The one who wanted sit apart still sits apart.

shesty

From my observances over the years "high IQ" does not necessarily equate to having common sense enough to realise it means nothing unless you can motivate yourself and apply yourself, same as everybody else has to.

As someone else said, my 3 are still young (8,6,4) but like chalk and cheese already and I am so curious to find out what paths they all take.They all have heaps of ability so keeping their minds focused will be the prime thing, anything outside of that will be driven by their own interests, likes and dislikes.

My second is just finishing infants - the teacher is pushing them into a bit of SI work the last few weeks as the class as a whole has the ability.Means nothing, they will forget and do it all again next year.

Don't get too hung up on high IQ bit for now anyway.

Big Bag of Chips

From my observances over the years "high IQ" does not necessarily equate to having common sense enough to realise it means nothing unless you can motivate yourself and apply yourself, same as everybody else has to.

This!

I don't even know what my fella's IQ is, but I know he operates (or at least he did when he was assessed) on the 99th percentile. Which means in a room of 100 of his peers he will out perform 99 of them.

However, that potential actually means nothing when it comes down to him personally. He will not out perform his classmates in the leaving cert if he continues as he is now. His potential means nothing if he is not clued in enough to apply himself. So if he gets 400 points in his leaving instead of 600 well then 400 is the best he can do with the skills he possess at the time. THAT is his potential. Not 600. Looking to 600 is pointless because he, as a whole person, is unable to achieve that. Looking at him as just an academic brain is not fair on him. He's a whole person. And the side of him that is largely disinterested in school is winning at the moment (probably much the same as the "average" 16 year old!)

She'll find her path. She'll find her friend group. Just be careful of pushing her into what you think should be her path. Older kids might humour her at the moment, but older kids will also tire of the small one trying to hang around with them after a while. Also you might be OK with her at 5 hanging around and sharing interests with 9 or 10 year olds. You mightn't be quite so pleased when she's 12 and looking to hang around with 16 or 17 year olds. Once she starts school and us in a room of children her own age she will learn to fit in with her peers over time. Or she won't. But there's not a whole lot you can do one way or another.

The one thing we had to stress to our children was just because they are more clever than their classmates it doesn't make them "better". The child who struggles with reading might be a fantastic swimmer, or hurler, or singer, or the best in the class at art. They might also be the kindest child in the class. Everyone has their own strengths. And weaknesses.

Kintarō Hattori

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119184772#Comment_119184772

Thanks Big Bag of Chips,

That's reassuring to hear. I think my 5 year old is possibly like your fella. Popular but doesn't realise it. Also she is quite sensitive and doesn't get that kids can be a little rough. We were made aware of the CTYI. We'd never force her to be anything she isn't. We're just trying to help her along.

Kintarō Hattori

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119184789#Comment_119184789

Thanks CPTM,

I signed her up to a Junior Einstein camp last week. The drama club as also suggested by Big Bag of Chips might not be a bad idea, it's not something I'd ever have thought of.

Kintarō Hattori

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119189805#Comment_119189805

I hear you Shesty. We haven't been doing anything different. Monday-Friday she has playschool. Tuesday she has gymnastics. Saturday I usually bring her to somewhere like Ardgillan, Newbridge etc and then Sunday it's down to the Aunty or grandparents. At home she doesn't go outside all that much. She's very much a homebird. At home we'd watch TV, read books, play with Lego, play in the back garden etc. It's really just been the same as normal.

Kintarō Hattori

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119190694#Comment_119190694

Thanks markpb, I'm hoping it does but we don't push her to do anything uncomfortable or to be anyone but herself. I attended the parents night for the school and they stated in their general address to the parents that they always expect some kids to be slightly aheads of other kids and that they have a system in place to work with and challenge those kids, so that was great to hear.

As mentioned, we were made aware of CTYI so we'll deffo be in contact with them.

Kintarō Hattori

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119190738#Comment_119190738

Wanderer78. She was assessed by the psychologist for the HSE who conducted their part of the Assessment of Needs (they work for an independent organisation). The second psychologist who ran through the report mentioned they also didn't have any concerns. As her parent, I wouldn't have any myself. She's a sweet, caring, empathetic, happy little lady. But yes, to address your point, she hasn't been asssessed by anyone with a speciality in that field.

Kintarō Hattori

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119190746#Comment_119190746

Still stihl waters 3- that's absolutely very possible. She's our only child so we're navigating everything for the first time and everyone is telling you to socialise, socialise, socialise. She doesn't have siblings, cousins the same age, kids on the street around her age, so we kinda feel under pressure a bit.

Kintarō Hattori

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119190757#Comment_119190757

Hi Martin,

I do kinda feel she'll find her own way. We love her, do all we can and are in this for the long haul. Hopefully with the right guidance she'll continue to be happy and grow to be a well grounded person.

Kintarō Hattori

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119191017#Comment_119191017

Big Bag of Chips - this has absolutely crossed my mind, that to some degree it could be a hindrance rather than a blessing. At this stage already she's fiercely independent and wants to do as much as she can by herself. She's very much so her own person and to some degree knows what she wants in a lot of situations.

Kintarō Hattori

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119191419#Comment_119191419

I coudn't agree with that last part enough Shesty. I'm really not. First and foremost I want to make sure she's happy and I thik we're doing a good job there (I think!).

Kintarō Hattori

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119191565#Comment_119191565

We don't actually push her at all. She doesn't play with the older kids but does seem to prefer them to kids her age. She is a total homebird and doesn't actually play with anyone on our estate. I wouldn't as such like the idea of her hanging around with older kids as that could produce all sorts of issues but as mentioned, at present it's not something we have to worry about.

Big Bag of Chips

Hopefully once she starts school and is mixing more with children her own age she'll fall into friendships.

Kids tend to get on with it better than we as adults do. We overthink and worry and they just plod along getting on with it!

JDD

If your daughter was fascinated with letters and numbers at a young age, and grasped reading before starting school, she might be hyperlexic? There are apparently three types of hyperlexic children. Most are diagnosed as autistic (type 2), some are type 1 which is simply early readers who display no social interaction issues, and some are type 3, which are children who are early readers and display some autistic traits early on but grow out of them. Type 3 children often don't want to play in groups, can have difficulty making transitions and can often have meltdowns. With help early on those children develop the necessary social skills and overcome the difficulty with change. Just a thought and something to consider if it applies to your child.

Kintarō Hattori

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119336071#Comment_119336071

Hi JDD,

Thanks for that info. She wasn't I would say fascinated with letters and numbers at an early age, and she certainly hasn't grasped reading yet- though she does recognise words. She also has a tendancy to 'guess/remember' what something says. Her memory can be quite phenomenal and she'll recount word for word something she learned months and months ago.