Father and son die at Isle of man TTs

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201228#Comment_119201228

In Isle of Man courts?

rogerywalters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201273#Comment_119201273

No tbf you have a point there. Ive no knowledge of Isle of man courts.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201256#Comment_119201256

People die every day across the globe. Starvation. War. Accidents. Other sports .

Why is the TT important or more important for deaths than these issues.

1. Because it's in the media this month. 2. People like to quote main stream bullshit.

Have you raced there? Do you know someone who has died there?

The racers are not forced to race. Watch it they love it it's their highlight. Their families go they do it for the love of it.

Everything has a price. They are willing to pay it you I and others are clearly not.

So let them and their sport be. Free choice is something we are loosing quickly.

That father and son like many others died doing what they loved I'd imagine.

It's a lot more from a life to do that then keyboard bashing other people down.

Girl Geraldine

The Manx governance and legal system has the same status as Northern Ireland's - it is there at the say-so of the British Government and it can be overruled, or dissolved on their perogative. It is in effect, like the other legislative assemblies, a glorified talking shop.

kirk.

You improve the bike and track safety you improve spectator safety

Large proportion of incidents are not rider error

Oil tyres brakes seizures electronics track

rustynutz

I was there, there are marshals all around the track within line of site of each other, and also with radios. The red flag came out almost immediately after this incident (I was standing directly across from the nearest marshal to the crash). Yes everyone in the crowd waved at the oncoming sidecar to slow down, but you could hear from the engine note he was already off the throttle at this point.

rogerywalters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201352#Comment_119201352

Now pal , people dont die in sports every day certainly not in the the western world. This event has higher deaths than any other event. The tt is not important than wars and stuff who said this other than you? Its an interesting topic and of course a CURRENT topic , with the 5 deaths last week. I am ALLOWED have an opinion on the race without knowing anyone who has raced in it. Mainstream bull ****???? Are you denying there was 5 deaths last week or? I havent bash any of the riders down yet. Although i do consider their selfishness absolutely pathetic but each to their own and all that. I started the thread to see if people thought it should be kept on or curtailed. Personally i think let them RIP in both sense of the word , but im allowed have an opinion, just as you are.

guyfo

A thread full of completely clueless comments from people that have obviously seen the articles from the leeches in the media covering the crashes but not the rest of the event.

The riders and spectators know the risks, it's a small island and the residents are well used to their motorsports being held on closed public roads, weather it be the multiple bike meetings or the rallys. Literally everyone else on the sidelines has travelled to a tiny island in the middle of the Irish sea and are paying a massive premium over normal tourist season to be there for it.

People are allowed to Box, to compete in MMA, to climb mountains or ski/cycle down them at speed, to jump out of a plane or off a bridge. But it's the lads on the motorbikes that are the issue? Cop on.

rogerywalters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201484#Comment_119201484

But sure why would people need to see the rest of the event? 4 incidents , 5 deaths ,one event. Boxing and MMA dont have near that level whatsoever, either does cliff diving , plane jumping basically anything. Cop on.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201447#Comment_119201447

I'm not going down this rabbit hole.

But read the post below your last. That sums it up.

jaykay2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201078#Comment_119201078

Ha. Fair enough Gav. 😄

rogerywalters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201512#Comment_119201512

Tbf your right i think nobody on either side has agreed on anything so maybe its a pointless debate. I did read the comment , found it ridiculous. Ill leave it there anyway.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201536#Comment_119201536

Thanks it is very sad about the deaths though.

I do hope they reduce in future years.

These lads deserve better.

They bring a lot of joy to many many people.

rogerywalters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201665#Comment_119201665

Yeah i hope they reduce in future years and definitely agree they bring a lot of joy to an extremely passionate community.

screamer

Very sad but they are just like any other adrenaline junkies. They know the risks. How many people die climbing Mount Everest every year? Huge risks, no need to do it, and yet people do it and people die leaving their families broken hearted. So long as people are willing to risk their lives willingly there’s nothing that will be done to shut it down.

Fallout2022

I've pushed the envelope and done some very reckless speeds, In computer games.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201370#Comment_119201370

LOL. You haven't a clue. The Isle of Man isn't part of the UK.

Alkers

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201505#Comment_119201505

It's not one event either, it's a series of events ran over a number of days. The four incidents are all in seperate events.

kirving

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200692#Comment_119200692

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200900#Comment_119200900

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200990#Comment_119200990

There is somewhat of a contradiction there.

1) You say "You can never make it safe" but 2) "Alterations will focus on rider safety" and then 3) "just wrong that RR spectators are entitled to safety and there's somehow a method of achieving this".

If something can and will be done retrospectively for point 2), then why can't something be done pre-emptively for point 3?

The most basic hurdle to get over is people thinking that spectators (who might no know any better) are not entitled to as safe an environment as possible. That's just completely wrong in my view.

I'm not suggesting banning road racing, or spectators for that matter. I fully understand why they do it. I go mountain biking - child's play in comparison but an adrenaline rush for me nonetheless, but some people think I'm crazy to do it. I've had few reasonably serious injuries, but it's not going to stop me going out. Rider are absolutely free to make their own decisions - a key to living in a free society.

But you cannot reasonably expect spectators to know, or appreciate the risk they are undoubtedly exposing themselves too. They can span from lifelong racing enthusiasts to people who have never seen a race before, and you cannot expect to latter to understand.

Now you'll say I'm looking for solutions to a problem that doesn't exist (ie; spectators being killed), but equally, every single safety lesson does not have to be written in blood. The time to at least consider what could be of benefit is now - maybe that turns out to be nothing at all, maybe it's mandatory warnings, maybe it's grandstands, I don't know, but it must be on the notion that spectators are at least entitled to as safe an environment as possible.

kirk.

Point 1 is just a quote I liked not expressing a view of mine

Of course rider safety can be improved and some changes to spectator arrangements

Not making it safe for spectators as suggested though, that's impractical .There will always be danger in it

mickdw

I can't see it continuing as is.

The mountain areas are not so much a concern. People tend to gather at the populated centres.

Those areas heavily populated with spectators need to be properly setup, not what they currently have.

As for rider safety,

Screenshot_20220614-153738.png

This was just visible in 1st vid I watched today. Square ended stone wall. Direction of travel is towards that square wall end with riders turning left alittle before it.

I'd imagine it would be reasonably in play in terms of being hit should a rider come off the bike before the bend.

No attempt at all to shield or soften the obstacle. I don't know if the road steps out before that point to possibly shield it slightly but either way that there is negligent.

rogerywalters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119202455#Comment_119202455

Cop on. TT races 2022 can of course be called one event. Its clear there wasnt 5 deaths from one race , although im sure it has happened before.

LIGHTNING

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200928#Comment_119200928

Ah would you stop.

Dcully

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119186476#Comment_119186476

Hes not wrong though is he, 5 is a lot.

Having said that the OP was just posting about the father and son and not the 5 so i can see your point too :)

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119202690#Comment_119202690

I don't know if it's negligent there I presume they do a risk assessment all along the course

There's an awful lot of obstacles or furniture as they call it over the 37 miles

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201484#Comment_119201484

What are you on about? It's an event that happens on public roads, therefore with the complicity of the local authorities. People don't have to be sitting on a bank, resting their cans of scrumpy on their bellies and getting a horn over seeing bikes zip by, in order to ask whether the local authorities should be giving permission to the events.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201169#Comment_119201169

The fact that something is inherently foreseeable would strengthen a case in Tort.

A person could indeed possibly recover in the Republic, but likely not in the UK, for negligently caused psychiatric damage for seeing someone splatter themselves off a bike into a tree. I can't comment on the Isle of Man. But races do happen here, and in the UK.

rogerywalters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119204093#Comment_119204093

I started my first post with 5 people died this week....

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119204256#Comment_119204256

Volenti non fit injuria

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119204963#Comment_119204963

Nope. Doesn't apply here. The spectators have a reasonable expectation of safety. If marshals allow them to stand at a location then it is reasonable to assume that it is a safe location.

No more so than a soon-to-be-politician sitting on a swing with two pints in her hand.

kirk.

It's helpful that we have so many lawyers on the thread to clarify the legal aspects

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119204968#Comment_119204968

Volenti non fit iniuria (or injuria) (Latin: "to a willing person, injury is not done") is a common law doctrine which states that if someone willingly places themselves in a position where harm might result, knowing that some degree of harm might result, they are not able to bring a claim against the other party in tort or delict.

If you willingly put yourself in a position where you could foreseeably see the death of a competitor you cannot sue for seeing the death of a competitor. Plenty of case law on this.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119204990#Comment_119204990

Well done on the googling. Next google the Civil Liability Act 1961 and try to understand whether Statute overrides Common Law or vice-versa

Regardless, as explained above, it would not apply to a spectator at an event.

ohnonotgmail

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119204998#Comment_119204998

The race doesn't take place in ireland. Anyway, this is off topic.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119205015#Comment_119205015

That's fair enough. I'll leave it be

kirk.

Lol Donald trump exits the thread

bladespin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119205064#Comment_119205064

So typical, post after post and doesn't even know where the Isle of Man is!

The TT is a government run event, they're not just complicit, they own it lol, zero clue but loads of opinion.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119200928#Comment_119200928

How clueless can one get?

There are families on holiday during the TT fortnight all right, but they're there for the TT and so is everyone else.

You're not going to ring up a hotel or B&B in the IoM in January and ask them "any availability in the first half of June by any chance?" you'd be laughed out of it. You need to book a year in advance or perhaps more. Otherwise you might get a tent pitch in a field somewhere...

Flights and ferries are all full ages in advance too, and because they're assured of this demand every year the prices are high.

The idea that somebody could just turn up in the IoM in June not specifically for the TT is laughable. It's a small enough island and the TT is a massive event. "A day trip to the TT while they're there" Jaysus wept.

Hotblack Desiato

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119201370#Comment_119201370

Not a good idea to go on and on about topics you are completely uninformed on.

The Isle of Man is a self-governing Crown dependency. It is not part of the UK. It was never part of the EU. It's government cannot be overruled or dissolved by Westminster. Educate yourself because your posts on this thread are embarrassing.

enricoh

A young lad jack Oliver was killed today in a crash at kells. Rip kid.

I wonder if young lads should be restricted to junior n senior support for a few years before getting going at supersport, superbikes etc.

A sad day on top of this year's TT.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119205548#Comment_119205548

Hey genius. How did you imagine any of that out of what I wrote?

If all you have is to make up strawmen, then you ain't got much. lol.

Do you want me to send ya a map if you are confused as to where it is yourself?

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119224314#Comment_119224314

Your username is very apt

Sudden Valley

Do the best riders in the world go to these events or is alot of amateurs involved? The prize money doesnt seem very high for a professionalsport so perhaps it has a lot of ridersout of their depth in a dangerous track.

donspeekinglesh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119226743#Comment_119226743

These are the best road racers in the world. I'm sure there's a mix of pro, semi-pro and amateur riders. But they're all experienced, nobody is taking the start with no, or limited road-racing experience.

Prize money is not a great measure of anything. The overall winner at the Le Mans 24hrs takes home €40k for example - probably doesn't cover the catering budget for a works team.

rogerywalters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119227154#Comment_119227154

And i wonder what the correlation between experience and death is? Maybe the amateurs should pack it in with regard to TT?

kirk.

To paraphrase a famous TT rider

If you want to race the TT you've got to be totally at peace with yourself

And you have have to be aware that you could be coming home in a box

LIGHTNING

I have deleted some of the trolling and borderline other nonsense in here. This thread is starting to run its course. Its slowly degrading into "wont somebody think of the children"

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119195182#Comment_119195182

Have you ever seen a race?

Been to one? .....

Its a free event mainly (you just pay for a programme) so you dont have to go, and if you do you take the apparent risk...

Fairly simple ...

LIGHTNING

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119223749#Comment_119223749

You can be killed on a 125cc bike no problem at all.

rogerywalters

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119230170#Comment_119230170

Yeah it wasnt my intention to start a shiitshow. All in all there was zero convergence from either side on any issue. And nothing learned .Thats the internet for ya.