Dublin Pride ends media partnership with RTE over Liveline's Gender Identity discussion

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119208178#Comment_119208178

How come there are no commentators in Ireland coming out with a retort like this? Is everyone so afraid of being called a phobe, and being cancelled?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210171#Comment_119210171

They're terrified of the backlash.

Dublin Pride, nor any other LGBT organization, speaks on behalf of me. They probably think they do, lumping all LGBT people together as if they have a uniform view on every subject imaginable, but we don't. We have a diverse range of opinions, just like everyone else.

One of the unfortunate consequences of what's been going on is that many LGBT people are tarred by association with what Panti Bliss and Dublin Pride and trans activists in general, are doing.

Bliss is coming across as unhinged.

https://twitter.com/PantiBliss/status/1537377322222895105

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119209836#Comment_119209836

I'd still argue that these people are seeking to pretend that they can just forget decades of personal experiences as a male, when deciding to change gender to being female, and somehow they can assume that gender, again, somehow knowing all the experiences of a woman, without ever going through those experiences as a woman.

If we put aside the physical aspect, what about personality, and experience? For example, can I know what it's like for a young teenage girl growing up around men, and becoming aware of her own sexuality? Oh, I can read/hear about girls/womens experiences, but they're their experiences not mine, and they're also biased per the individual.. so how do I assume the persona of another gender without having any direct experience of what it's like to be that gender. I could pretend in the short-term, but it wouldn't be real, but simply acting, mimicking others without any comprehension of what it really means to women.

It boggles the mind that this kind of stuff is ignored. Yes, the physical aspect is important, but.. if we're talking about identity, surely we should also be considered all the aspects that contribute to identity.. it involves a lot more than wishful thinking.

archfi

"Has anyone yet found what part of the Liveline debates actually expressed flagrant transphobia?"

Um, nope.

It's pathetic and I am delighted the public get to see the utter dumbness coupled with authoritarianism that's been there all the time behind the colourful facade.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210241#Comment_119210241

If that's the case, they presumably believe that the act of merely discussing trans-related issues is, simply by default, transphobic to begin with.

So if that's what they believe, then it makes sense that they'd want to shut down all discussion.

NIMAN

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210277#Comment_119210277

This is the crux of their problem I think.

Its obvious someone came on with an opposing view, and they then claim that LiveLive allowed anti-trans rhetoric, and sure thats not allowed. Different opinions aren't allowed.

Ash.J.Williams

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119209950#Comment_119209950

No , it’s just a pointless stupid gesture, it looks stupid and is ridiculous

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210225#Comment_119210225

Who's being a crybaby now?

Way to lose the room Panti.

DarkJager21

Wonder what Dublin Pride or Roderic or any of the other hand wringers have to say about this? This is the community officer for TENI saying women need to be "smashed out of existence". Very very dangerous rhetoric which has the potential to incite a violent backlash and I'd suggest they wind this cretin in and shut them up. Nobody outside of the trans community is going to tolerate threats like this to women.

A lot of the self proclaimed "Allies" have gone quiet thank God.

Seems the penny is dropping.

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210585#Comment_119210585

The pro Trans activists groups have a problem with a sizeable group that have a raw hatred of women.

A level that stands out and disturbs people, beyond some fellow just being a prick.

StrawbsM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210453#Comment_119210453

This tweet says it all for me.

https://twitter.com/megaresurrecti/status/1537394809089970176?s=21&t=2yT9hbbNgFkGCQaENn5VWQ

To all those posters on here who just love to put CIS in front of Female & Male. As a woman, I find it highly insulting. You need to stop as all you are doing is degrading me.

I will happily call a transgendered person by whatever description they feel comfortable with and I’ve got a funny feeling that a majority of those would also be respectful back and wouldn’t be advocating that my identity, as a mother, is taken from me and replaced with me now being a “person who bleeds” or a “person with a cervix”.

Keep it up, activists, your true colours are brighter than those on the flags that you’ve attached to your names! How many of you are transgender anyway?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210585#Comment_119210585

"...smashed out of existence"?

Hate speech and incitement to violence right there. And the irony of that person being the "community development" officer of TENI.

Dangerous, irresponsible, and reckless language.

DarkJager21

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210704#Comment_119210704

It's complete hypocrisy - they are allowed to spout views like that unchallenged but people discussing them on a radio show is simply off limits.

Dangerous dangerous words to be throwing around, someone might just end up getting "smashed out of existence" alright but it sure as hell won't be women.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210585#Comment_119210585

I saw that these types were putting "Terf Cutter" stickers up around Dublin too. They are genuinely both sick and dangerous, yet those who point to that are more likely to end up in trouble than they are.

John Doe1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210755#Comment_119210755

TERF cutter, jee-sus. This group are literal fascists

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210225#Comment_119210225

Statements like that are based in one thing; hatred.

This situation has the potential to be extremely damaging and the type of rhetoric like above going around seems to suggest that there is some extremely bitter people attached to that movement who really don't want to listen to anything they disagree with.

We're veering into a new type of extremism which is really sad to see.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210784#Comment_119210784

I don't usually listen to radio debates but, given the furore over the Liveline debates, I decided to see for myself whether it was inappropriate.

I found Duffy moderated the debate in about as fair and impartial way as he could have done, pushing back on both sides with probing questions. Both sides laid out their arguments without an ounce of abuse, which was good to see. I didn't hear anything hateful, and certainly nothing that could be described as transphobic. They had a transwoman on to discuss their own story, too, which was interesting and worthwhile to listen to. It was merely an exchange of ideas and what happens when people with different perspectives on sex and gender meet head on. This is a relatively new issue for many people, so it's to be expected that people will have questions. For example: they talked about the toilet issue; and what human rights trans people didn't have access to; and so on; the familiar kind of debates we've had over the course of this and other threads.

Despite the above, the reactions from Panti Bliss - to give one of many examples - to describe the debates over the last two days included:

• "hate-fest"
• "just plain nasty"
• "fascists"
• "Proud Boys"
• "authoritarian despots"
• "extreme religious preachers"
• trans people being "obliterated"
• "hate fantasies"

Now, no matter what way you cut it, on one side is a peaceful and sensible debate and, on the other side, the list above.

If trans activists want us to take their arguments and positions seriously, they'll need to tone down this outrageous, hyperbolic, disproportionate, and counterproductive rhetoric.

whisky_galore

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210691#Comment_119210691

God, I hate the word 'cis', no doubt invented by one of those gender studies lecturers.

'Cis' is the new 'racist', a throwabout term for anyone I find objectionable.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210857#Comment_119210857

If trans activists want us to take their arguments and positions seriously, they'll need to tone down this outrageous, hyperbolic, disproportionate, and counterproductive rhetoric.

That's if they want to be taken seriously... however if they're completely focused on the outrage (with the following that loves to echo that outrage), the ability to insult others without repercussions, the permanent fixture as a victim, etc, then they'll continue as before.

TBH I'm sceptical. I remember the Gay rights movement being pushed in a different manner. Sure, there were some militant style speakers with their own bile, but the majority of what defined the movement was calm, measured and asking for recognition, rather than forcing people to comply (Modern LGB activists are different from what went before). The Trans advocates/activists are far more aggressive, so I do wonder as to how serious they are about this, because playing the bully will turn people firmly against the Trans movement over time, as opposed to finding supporters for the changes or "acceptance" they supposedly want.

spookwoman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210126#Comment_119210126

Nail on the head. Gay marriage doesn't affect other people, if my neighbours Peter and Paul got married it's have absolutely no affect on my life or anyone else.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119209836#Comment_119209836

To change or remove what women are and as you say starting calling them person with cervix is removing my identity as a woman. Why should 50.36% of the population have our identity removed? If our identities are to broken down into parts so is calling a woman "person with a cervix" a derogatory term. Might as well call us c*nts.

Richard Hillman

The thing that Panti Bliss doesn't realise is that eventually the mob will catch up with her. There will be an issue or a line crossed that she disagrees with and they'll rabidly come after her. They'll go after her bar and threaten people outside of it for going in.

The rabid crowd tend to nearly unanimously have mental health issues. They need a cause or a row to keep them going. They'll never run out of people to call a fascist. Their criteria of what is a fascist will deminish day by day until they turn on each other.

lee_baby_simms

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119211257#Comment_119211257

Rory isn’t a woman.

guyfo

2 days later and I still haven't seen anything in the media about what was actually said... and I really don't want to have to listen to that gobheen.

Would I be right in saying that a topic was chosen and people called in from either side of the debate to give their opinions. Any comments I see about Duffy himself say he handled it well and it's the views of the people that were the problem. Are these people employed by RTE? What's the big issue with debating a controversial topic?

On another note what happened to people from a certain community not wanting to be labeled and just get on with their lives happy to be fully accepted to the point where no one gives a sh1t anymore.... I struggle to see why there is so much effort put in to coming up with new terms to try classify people into different groups.

spookwoman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119211257#Comment_119211257

I'd don't know if they will sink to the same level trying to cancel people and destroy them like the Trans movement are trying on JK Rowling.

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119211006#Comment_119211006

It seems to me that 'cis' is reminiscent of 'cissy' and I'd imagine the choice of this term was a sly, deliberate troll.

NIMAN

It appears the LBG are leaning away from the T part of that 'community'.

If they had any sense, they'd want to distance themselves from the lunatic fringe element asap.

Yurt2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119210126#Comment_119210126

What's Panti going after Mick Clifford for?

I know Panti doesn't necessarily speak for the LGBT community as a whole but she's a very prominent voice for them.

This is scorched earth stuff going after extremely respected and level-headed journalists like Clifford how has been in the LGBT community's corner for a long time.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119211370#Comment_119211370

They cannot afford any sort of inquiry into their codswallop, it all falls to pieces under examination.