FEC committee & final report - **UPDATE post 442**

TheEngineer1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120619455#Comment_120619455

Fair play Grizz!!

I think first and foremost is we need to come across as willing to work with the gov on as many of the FEC recommendations as possible;

1. Single firearm license per person for all their firearms.

2. Support the increase in rimfire pistol mags capacity.

2. Support working with the gov to develop regulations for allowing home reloading of ammunition.

Once a working relationship and willingness to work together is established, the next step I think is to figure out how we can get the reference to semi auto centerfire rifles removed from the upcoming criminal justice act. Re-iterate as much as possible Fabian Connollys arguments from the FEC report.

Would it be wishful thinking to think that anything will come of bringing up CF pistols at this meeting? Like if some crime statistics were requested on gun violence in the republic since 2009 to really hammer home how the CF pistol ban had no effect on crime whatsoever and how allowing new licenses for these again is the way to go? We could back this up with references to meetings had with the PSNI in the FEC meetings and how CF pistol shooting in Northern Ireland is permitted without any issues.

I think then we need to start picking apart the more negative parts of the FEC reports;

Different licenses for hunting and target shooting will be a headache for everyone, including AGS with the extra paperwork this will entail.

We also especially to hammer home how gun clubs and clay target clubs not being authorised by AGS is not causing any issues. If AGS also have to start looking after gun clubs and clay target clubs it will be a huge huge burden on them as there are hundreds if not thousands of clubs in the country. (As a side note, according to the news this week, AGS are struggling with recruitment and retention. The last thing they need is the added headache of policing gun clubs).

Finally if we can hammer home how NV and thermal vision are important for predator control in the country side!

TheEngineer1

Also, in the event that there is absolutely nothing to be done on the SACF ban, then I think we could push for an end to the restricted/non-restricted system? Like if there are no CF pistols and no SACF rifles then we may as well be able to hunt with a 45-70 and 7.92x57 without restricted licenses!

tonysopprano

According to the latest Garda news, they want to be excused from attending crashes and accidents, due to manpower problems and in the case of the UK police, who started with crashes and accidents, they will no longer answer to calls for burglary, house breaking or theft, just issue reference number for insurance to deal with.

This is the start of AGS refusing to deal with ANY incident or problem where they can just brush you away to an insurance company, which means that your premiums will be increased because the insurance companies will not fight these claims but just screw us for more money.

This is what your tax Euros go to

solarwinds

I agree with all of the above. With the addition of, if the ban on new licenses for SACF rifles and CF pistols can not be reversed then to allow for the legal substitution of these firearms onto an existing license. It will not be an increase in licenses but it will allow people who currenyly hold them to change firearms.

Ideally I would like to see new licenses being issued again but could the above be a bit of a halfway house. We get what we want and the State and AGS are granting additional ones on top of what is out there.

The alternative is the slow dwindling of the sports as firearms break or wear out. Which a cynical mind would think is what they actually want.

The security and transport recomendations also need to be addressed. And the increasing number of Super's who have started to reduce and question the already authorised ammo allowances, where did this suddenly come from ?.

tonysopprano

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120621658#Comment_120621658

Just like every other jurisdiction, it is death by a 1000 cuts. Make security so dear than you cannot afford, make transport so onerous that you need an armoured car, even reduce your ammo limit, to make it un-economical to buy or for dealers to import.

Make no mistake, this is a concerted attempt to rid all of us of our firearms.

garrettod

Insisting that everyone is a member of a club, for either target shooting, or hunting, descriminstes against those living in cities, as they can't get into hunting clubs, "because they don't live in the parish" where the hunting clubs are based, and there are no hunting clubs in the cities :-(

Zxthinger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120621756#Comment_120621756

Ye only have to look at who the best pets are for the new world order and Canada comes straight to top.. They had no issues with licenced firearms but they trying to ban everything. lol

Zxthinger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120622631#Comment_120622631

That is one of the most insulting proposals that they listed.

I shooting nearly 1/4 of a century, I was never in a club (until this year ) and I don’t need to have another 300euro per year added to my costs

The reality is that this proposal is as disingenuous as it’s cited alongside other prohibitive nonsense about mandatory insurance and suggestions that hunters need to carry all their written permissions for each landowner.. along with suggestions that hunters then contact AGS and they pre-advise them of their shooting itinerary.. ffs the SAS with have less planning looking for the worlds most wanted..

To anyone one looking at this it’s clear that the main agenda is the formation of such difficulties 5, affecting free lance hunters so as to force them into the arms of gun clubs (which suits the dealers agenda) or to push them out of the sport l, selling their guns on (. And this suits the agenda of DOJ/AGS)

Disgraceful..

Zxthinger

The minister needs to realised that owning a car is not a prerequisite to owning a gun.. and also note that travel with a firearm on buses, taxis and trains is apparently not permitted, (probably banned by the same clowns that banned Bow hunting..lol)

jb88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120602013#Comment_120602013

Lets see how minus 3000 - 5000 votes does him in the next General election, and im not the first person to say this about Browne, there is serious concerted efforts being prepared by a number of groups, both individually and as members of broader hunting and shooting groups in Wicklow/ Wexford, who want no more of him or this farce, including proposals to ban CF semi Auto licences issued post 2015 or any attempt to ban or limit law abiding sports people going about their business in this state.

Minister Browne and indeed Minister Harris, have stepped on the wrong toes in relation to harrassing and preventing the most law abiding and heavily regulated individuals in this state from pursuing lawful sport shooting in the future and they will have no way of smooting this over in 2 years.

NARGC, IFA, and numerous other hunting and shooting sports groups all making their voices heard on FB and its time for more to get behind them.

Minus two TD's is all anyone will expect from these outcomes.

Anyone on this or other ideas interested in assisting, can PM me.

NO FF NO FG in Wicklow or Wexford.

jb88

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120620765#Comment_120620765

James Lawless a good TD and Chairman of the Justice committee, he will listen but his hands are tied is what he told us.

Without concerted effort, ie that Browne will even listen to the issues, which he didnt in relation to Gambling laws previously.

I wouldnt hope for much out of the meeting to try and change things.

Browne wont listen. Its that not listening from his own party and no compromise is what is going to prevent his bid for the Seanad, when he loses his seat in the next general election, if his own party dont like him, and its more than a few TD's, maybe his friends in FG will have to fight on his behalf.

garrettod

I think it's time to turn the heat up, significantly, on both Michael Martin and Leo Varadkar - make it very clear to both of them, that their parties will be punished, at national level, if they don't put stop to Browne.

Both are struggling in the polls for most of the last two years, so do they really want to alienate another 100,000 voters, and possibly a lot more?

Leo and Michael have the ability to swap Browne into another brief, to take him away from Justice, or even just demote him, and that's what's needed, given the crap from Browne, to date.

Send a letter to your local FFG TDs, explaining the problem and asking for the mater to be taken to their party leaders, then insist on a written reply from the relevant party leaders office, via your local TDs.

Vizzy

Not disagreeing with you garrettod, but the FEC reports now exist and Browne ( or his successor if he is moved) must make decisions on the reccommendations.

What is needed is that the reports are "rubbished" and dismissed by the Minister.

The fact that Browne will not meet anyone is just astounding to be honest and the quicker he is gotten rid of, the better.

The whip system is against us here lads, but pressure can be brought to bear on all FF/FG to have a word in Brownes ear before the reports ever get to the floor of the Dail.

The FF guy in my area did not even reply to my email, and he is a former leading light in the ICMSA and is very vocal on farmer issues.

The FG guy is a Senator( and from a very large farm), so he is about as much use as a chocolate teapot.

Both have been told that I will be mobilising as much opposition to their re-election as possible.

garrettod

Hi Vizzy,

That's exactly why I'm suggesting the above strategy - the recommendations won't get a fair hearing, while Browne is running the show, he'll just use what he wants from them, to justify his own agenda !

Also, clearly thinks that we can't / won't make much of an impact, at future elections, but his bosses, and his colleagues in other constituencies, may see the reality of the situation.

Zxthinger

quote Vizzy:Not disagreeing with you garrettod, but the FEC reports now exist and Browne ( or his successor if he is moved) must make decisions on the reccommendations.

Yes, the report is here but can you see them sanctioning the required new legislation for all that clap-tarp that was in the report....

I think now the report needs to go to a "level headed practical person" (none of which seem to have been on the panel) and as such they will see that it has complications beyond those that are necessary to manage law abiding folk..

What are they going to do with the barrel length issue..

Currently there exists a myriad of licensed 22 rifles out there with 16inch barrels as that the standard within the country which sets the manufacturing bar.. but no!... we are planning to adopt an 18" limit alongside bespoke labelling for wine bottles.. lol

garrettod

There's a fairly simple solution to the 16" barrel issue - compel all who own one, to use a moderator, at all times, so the total lenght is now 18".... Oh, eh, no, that throws up a different issue, apparently 🙄

dalalada

UK there’s no min barrel length for rifles.

A country of 60 million Vs A country of 4 million. But we need a barrel length. The f@&k that about

bmmb88

Silencers should remain licensable in the State but applicants should

continue to be required to demonstrate “good reason” for their possession

to An Garda Síochána for their consideration.

Strongly Disagree

This is from FUNI answers which I am using along with the Country sports Ireland one to complete the online survey. Even with the suggested answers its still a bit confusing with the way the questions are worded. Take the above re silencers,Silincers should remain licensable in the state, is this a question or a statement. So if its a statement and you agree with it do you answer Agree even though you dont think you should have to provide a good reason to have one. If you disagree with them being licenced do you put disagree but you want the good reason to remain if they are to be licenced.

If you think you should not need a licence to own one and you put disagree are you saying there should be no silencers.

I dont think you should need a licence or good reason for one, whats my answer.

The way I read the above answer "Strongly disagree" is that silencers should not remain licensable in the state even though I know the " Strongly disagree" answer refers to the Good reason part of the question ( I presume )

Help

TheEngineer1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120636337#Comment_120636337

Yeah I said somewhat agree to that one, I agree with the first part of the statement but not the second part.

Grizzly 45

UPDATE RE THE SEMI AUTO RIFLE POST 2015 BAN. URGENT!

This part that concerns us of the Criminal Justice Misc provisions bill is now in the SEANAD on second reading. It is slated to be discussed next Tuseday. Please email your representative Senator to inform them of your concerns if you are affected by this.

The chair of this discussion is Sen Robbie Gallagher email robbie.gallagher@oireachtas.ie or your local senator which you can find here

Senators' contact details can be found here, reach out to as many as possible:

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/members/senators/

The Seanad debate on this bill can be found here:

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/debates/debate/seanad/2023-05-2...

Zxthinger

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120638532#Comment_120638532

EVERYONE! Get you emails away today as these people are often a few days behind on emails..

Grizzly 45

The heat is on!

Awkward questions are being asked by Verona Murphy TD [Ind] and chair about FEC in the Dail Public Accounts Committee of the DOJ on May 24th.

Don't know how to transfer the link over from Dail TV but for those of you on FB its https://www.facebook.com/FirearmsUnitedIreland

https://www.oireachtas.ie/en/press-centre/press-releases/20230524-committee-of-public-accounts-to-examine-2021-appropriation-accounts-for-department-of-justice/

Rifter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120642188#Comment_120642188

I watched and their lack of knowledge on their own Dept and its involvement was well I have no words for how flippant they were, and the ridiculousness of the survey they call a "consultation process" ...

But will this actually make a difference, from what I can see Min Browne is not talking, nor will he engage with anyone, and my expectation is that, Min Browne, AGS and DOJ will just ram through punitive legislation that will make it more difficult for licence holders to partake in their sport and essentially make it unworkable for anyone to take up shooting sports.

I'll be pleasantly surprised if that doesn't come to pass but I feel the writing is on the wall and Min Browne and Gov(DOJ/AGS) will just do as they wish

solarwinds

What is the point of electing public representatives if they will not engage or even acknowledge sectors of the public you have responsibility for.

This bangs of either a personal crusade based on his personal opinions or he is being used as a patsy for someone elses agenda.

If this person will not even engage with their own party, I feel like we are completly wasting our time even trying to debate with an individual like that.

The decisions appear to have been made long ago, this is just window dressing.

badaj0z

There is no point trying to engage with Brown or his patsy's in the DOJ. There is massive point in engaging with every other politician or public representative at whatever level that you may choose. My opinion, for what it is worth, is that this minister has gone on a solo run with an Agenda that is so obvious that it should be embarrassing to a politician. The First clue is the name of the committee, the Firearms Expert Committee. His appointments to this committee are so obviously 3/2 in his favour that he has left himself open to accusations of bias. The thinking here is, that they are experts, then they must be right! Remember that the only true expert on this committee has dissociated himself from the recommendations. The second clue is the questionnaire. This is so clearly devious as to be embarrassing. This whole process is amateur at best and other politicians at Dail or local level will enjoy making hay with it. He has set up a structure that enables him to say that he has experts supporting him and that public opinion is on his side. This is clearly not true. Keep up the pressure on your local and national representatives. The video, circulating today of the issue being raised at the Public Accounts Committee clearly shows how ill prepared the DOJ is to handle the fall out from this.

Grizzly 45

Dealing with the Public Acc Committee isn't a walk in the park for any Govt dept, as they are the ones who decide how much a Govts dept is getting in cash for the year.I hear [from my spies that are everywhere!]that Mrs Murphy is a pretty feisty lady and already she is asking the right questions on this topic of FEC and possible buddy buddy deals.Might not be a lot of money in the scheme of things.But its OUR tax money that was paid out for this charade.So questions are being rightly asked, and this vid has gone viral on social media. This ride is going to get wilder, mark my words.

Grizzly 45

DON'T FORGET TO GET YOUR SUBMISSIONS TO THE DOJ READY. THEY ARE DUE IN NEXT FRIDAY JUNE 3rd!

garrettod

Hi,

Here's the direct link to that video clip, from the Public Accounts Committee, for anyone that needs it:

https://video-dub4-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t42.1790-2/348475899_1751610011958942_4944410446166656068_n.mp4?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=985c63&efg=eyJ2ZW5jb2RlX3RhZyI6InN2ZV9zZCJ9&_nc_ohc=IO3CQKTdJMIAX_AKdgc&_nc_ht=video-dub4-1.xx&oh=00_AfCyFQQCxiSHlcKGHxgq7AvyrORhkL7nvL8HyV92vinU4g&oe=6477162E

Personally, I think its something that should be sent to every politican that each of us has previously contacted, to help support our claims about how Browne is behaving!

.... And remember, also ask for the party leader to be updated, and for his response (it'll help make things just a little more awkward 😉)

hiddenmongoose

I would ask all firearms owners to contact Senators (this weekend as it is up on Tuesday) regarding the Semi-Auto issue. Now is the time to stand together.

Separately now is also the time to pile the pressure on TDs regarding Browne, his complete lack of engagement with firearms owners, his loaded committee that should be investigated for possible cronyism, his farce of an online consultation that has double edged loaded questions. Pile the pressure more than ever, send links from the article from the ditch and also the link from the public acc committee.

Gumbo

Sent to my TD this morning.

Hi Paul,

Following our previous brief email with regards to the FEC, I attach a video of Veronica Murphy TD attacking the process in which the FEC was set up, the complete lack of engagement with stake holders in this sport and suspicious circumstances in which the members of the FEC were appointed. 

I would invite you to take a look at the online consultation published by the department and figure out if you can make head nor tails of the language in which they are asking the questions. Double negetive questions, lack of “plain English” from a government department is appalling!

I ask that you please raise this complaint with your party leader as this sport will be lost to future generations because of a lack of understanding by in appropriately appointed government ministers to oversee substantial legal changes within the sport. 

Links to the PAC Video -