FEC committee & final report - UPDATE post 442

jb88 · 13-07-2023 1:53am

So nothing ventured, nothing gained, nothing achieved. Guess its put up or shut up as I spoke to the group concerned last year.

Its a courts battle as I originally spoke about.

No exclusions, no amendments they are planning to pass this bill. what makes us any different to the 200 or so pre 2015 licenced Semi Auto centre fire rifle holders. NOTHING

You think RTE have issues?

Gonna have to park that for issues concerning, law abiding citizens being condemned due to a date.

All gun owners need to stand up and be counted. Its just the first step in a process. You think it wont affect you down the line it will. Just like 2008

BSA International · 13-07-2023 5:19am

Some if not all post 2015 s/a c/f licencees were told they would/could loose their licences once relevant legislation was enacted, same as post 2008 new c/f pistol licesenees who did have their certificates revoked.

Ye're on yere own, same as the rest of us. No unity in our sport so PTB just do what they want ......

garrettod · 13-07-2023 8:39am

Have we learnt nothing from the mistakes of the past?

Seriously, we're our own worst enemies, sometimes.... and just make it easy for people like brown to come along and kick us.

Grizzly 45 · 13-07-2023 11:46am

Well folks, the only thing I can say is this. if you ain't happy with how your organisation is representing you. It's up to you to tell them by either moving and taking your money with you, or speaking up and voting out the people in charge for not doing their jobs,and getting involved yourselves in the politics and running of these organisations. If you feel FURG and NASRPC aren't making enough of an effort to fight the SACF corner.Tell them via your channels. If you feel that you think some entities might be looking forward to making a profit in running courses that you will maybe have to do. Tell them as members you expect those courses to be run AT COST and even a loss as a sign that you are expecting the sport to be grown not people's bank accounts.

It's up to us to change things.No point B&Ming here on social media. Hit your organisation's rep with it in the clubhouse, the clay range, the rifle and pistol range or behind the duck blind, and tell THEM you aren't happy. After all, it is your hard-earned Euros that are going to support the organisation. You are a customer and if the product isn't right you can complain. FURG is an umbrella group, so if you feel it isn't doing enough or repping your particular interest, speak up and it will go up the chain.

Grizzly 45 · 13-07-2023 12:10pm

It's a court battle as I originally spoke about.

That is and always should be the "Ultima Ratio" option for anyone. I am just surprised at either one of three things being displayed by the govt here. [1] Stupidity that they don't see this as a glaring problem in the proposed legislation [2] Arrogance that they think it won't be challenged by us peasants,or to consider a brilliant political solution[3] Naiveity/unawareness of the fact that they have not been told by aGS and which came across quite clearly in the report on this topic that the Minister has been fed a bunch of half and mis truths on this topic.Like the fact AGS lost 95% of these cases in the DC and that supposition is not grounds for legislation. Browne as a former solicitor should know this himself. And yet this can be sorted quietly to all parties' satisfaction, while looking like a loss,it is a draw for everyone,and just requires a date change on an amendment that could be done right here, right now by the minister.

No exclusions, no amendments they are planning to pass this bill. what makes us any different to the 200 or so pre 2015 licenced Semi Auto centre fire rifle holders. NOTHING

Apart from the fact that the "20 or so" According to the Dept of Justice's own figures of pre-2015 SACF license holders opened multiple cans of Whup Ass on them in District courts in 2015 around the land. Looks bad for a Govt to start meddling with judicial decisions,even if it is in a lower court of no recognition. There were too many wins and it would look like "Revenge legislation" on their part.

Grizzly 45 · 13-07-2023 6:22pm

And by total coincidence,🤯we get an email today from Browne's secretary ,that Browne will be meeting FUNI and hopefully the rest of the organisations and individuals in the Autumn post Dail recess.

Vizzy · 13-07-2023 6:51pm

Thats good news anyway. Hopefully the meeting wont take place with decisions already made by the Minister.

I am awaiting news from NARGC as to the outcome of the meeting last week

garrettod · 14-07-2023 1:14am

IFA Countryside doing their bit...

IFA and IFA Countryside Present Key Recommendations on Firearm Licensing to Minister of State at Department of Justice James Browne

IFA and IFA Countryside, recently had a crucial meeting with Minister of State at the Department of Justice, James Browne, to discuss recommendations made by the Firearm Expert Committee (FEC). This meeting served as an opportunity to address areas for improvement in the firearm licensing system, in response to an invitation from the Minister following a submission made by IFA.

The FEC, mandated with evaluating all types of firearms currently licensed in the State, conducted a comprehensive assessment to determine their appropriate use within the existing licensing system. Alongside this evaluation, the committee also examined other essential firearm licensing matters, including the potential implementation of conditions on firearm certificates, the consideration of limitations on the number of firearms an individual may possess, and any other pertinent firearms licensing issues relevant during the Committee's term.

IFA Countryside Chairman Brian Rushe said that "shooting plays a crucial role in the lives of farmers, gun club members and the rural community serving as an indispensable tool for effective pest control allowing them to mitigate the significant income losses caused by crop damage and livestock predation."

IFA Countryside Secretary, William Shortall, shared his insights, saying, "This meeting provided us with a valuable platform to discuss and propose crucial improvements to the firearm licensing system. We are advocating for standardised licensing processes to ensure consistent application of legislation, the establishment of an online application system for streamlined efficiency, and the introduction of an appeals mechanism to ensure fair and just outcomes."

Grizzly 45 · 14-07-2023 2:27pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120847506#Comment_120847506

Should have somthing on that next week.The suspense is killing us all.

Grizzly 45 · 14-07-2023 2:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120848831#Comment_120848831

IFA-Submission-on-the-Recommendations-of-the-Firearm-Expert-Committee-June-2023.pdf

Good report. Coming from the Farmer's perspective, avoided any technical discussions on firearms pretty much 90% in line with everyone else.Slight clanger advocating for the Firearms Arbitration Authority. But a damn sight better than their 2014 submission advocating for banning all types of handguns and semi-rifles.

Grizzly 45 · 14-07-2023 5:52pm

Have recived unconfirmed reports that the Criminal Justice Misc provisions bill passed the Senad! Tons of senators put in plenty about every other aspect of the bill ,but not ONE of these useless T..ts opened their mouths about the SACF revocation despite intense lobbying. I guess we are now at[legal] war !!!

JP22 · 14-07-2023 10:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120850989#Comment_120850989

Just read the IFA submission myself.

As Grizz says they avoided the technical/political stuff for the most part, no surprise really, they focused on issues relating to the farming/landowners community.

Still, it good to see other organisations making submissions.

hiddenmongoose · 15-07-2023 11:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120851887#Comment_120851887

This is correct. Not one , despite all of them being contacted, makes you think there was a discussion off the floor as surely one of them would have raised it. Legal it is so

BattleCorp · 15-07-2023 2:43pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120854047#Comment_120854047

I don't think it's live quite yet. The President has to sign it and, I'm open to correction here, it might need a commencement order.

hiddenmongoose · 16-07-2023 11:31am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120854785#Comment_120854785

Correct, but thats a done deal, then 90 days later it is effective.

alanmc · 16-07-2023 12:10pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857681#Comment_120857681

Makes me sad. I don't have a huge interest in gas guns, but the way this was done and the tenuous (being generous) justifications do not bode well for the future.

I'm seriously considering retiring to somewhere in mainland Europe when the time comes.

hiddenmongoose · 16-07-2023 12:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120857785#Comment_120857785

Exactly, its a farce, and it will be something else next.. the next thing will be ''why do you need a semi shotgun, or a semi 22?''.. nothing double barrell or bolt action cant do. Its the start of the rot

TheEngineer1 · 16-07-2023 1:47pm

So we now have a situation where there are no new CF pistol licenses, and no new Semi auto CF rifle licenses. What justification is there for keeping the restricted/non-restricted system any more? Could our organisational reps highlight this in upcoming meetings with the minister?

May as well try and remove this silly barrier for gallery shooting.

dalalada · 16-07-2023 2:34pm

Over .308 calibre. It also holds on the looks of it category as being restricted.

TheEngineer1 · 16-07-2023 2:50pm

The intention of the restricted system was to "prevent proliferation" of high power handguns and "military rifles". Pistol calibre rifles used in gallery shooting and classic rifles in older larger calibres were simply legislative collateral damage. The government have now permanently achieved their goals stated from back in 2008/2009 so the basis for the restricted system no longer exists.

freddieot · 16-07-2023 3:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120858318#Comment_120858318

Only one of the many intentions. Otherwise why restrict 22 handguns to 5 rounds. Why restrict shotguns to 3 shells. Why bother at all with the 7.62 limit. The main intention was to further the cause both Domestic and somewhat EU, to remove all but 'farmyard' and basic hunting firearms from civilian hands.

The method was to start with SACF hanguns and hope for little resistance. Then SACF rifles and hopefully the same will happen.

If anyone thinks, for one moment, they are not coming sooner or later, for other firearms and disciplines, including Gallery, Long Range shooting and others then they are deluded. The ultimate desire is .22 b/a, double barrel shotguns and a few hunting calibres.

As long as we keep thinking in silos and just being concerned with our own part of shooting sports then they will continue to press ahead with the agenda.

TheEngineer1 · 16-07-2023 4:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120858421#Comment_120858421

I agree completely, which is why we need to push as hard as possible to unrestrict what remains in the restricted category to make them harder to grab in the future. I don't participate in any type of target shooting so I have no skin in the game but I am gutted off to see all kinds of rapid fire CF shooting being slowly banned.

Further more, people need to realise that as target shooting disciplines are choked out, the economic viability of businesses supplying the shooting industry is jeopardised. Without target shooters there is no way gun shops can make a living just supplying hunters and farmers. Then we're all goosed.

hiddenmongoose · 16-07-2023 5:38pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120858421#Comment_120858421

Exactly, divided we fall, next to no one helped support the SACF issue apart from those directly effected. I always support firearms and hunting issues, even areas I do not participate in, I asked members in both my clubs to email and lobby on behalf of SACF issue and I can count on 1 hand those that did.

Grizzly 45 · 16-07-2023 7:36pm

The method was to start with SACF handguns and hope for little resistance. Then SACF rifles and hopefully the same will happen.

Except they met ferocious resistance and lost badly in the court,and didn't mention this minor but pertinent fact in their report or FEC. So let's not interrupt an enemy making a mistake here and now. things have changed since 2008 and now people realise that if you snooze you lose and that court cases might be the only way to go to retain this, and this time there are people and orgs who say they will throw down the cash to fight this in the HC. Probably for the first time in Irish history, Irish organisations will endorse campaigners in the next elections on the basis of their merit of supporting us. So Minister Browne might need to consider this as there is a literal force of nature as his political opponent in his constituency who is supporting us. Things and times are a changing, did we ever think we would see NARGC and others meet with Shin Fein?

Remember too lads and lasses, legislation is a slow-plodding ox compared to the Cheetah of technology, and the Auochs bellow of banning things has been soo successful in the long term too.It's obviously how we stopped the "war on drugs" of the last century, and stopped alcoholism in America in the 1930s.

Grizzly 45 · 16-07-2023 7:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120858249#Comment_120858249

They really are either pig-headed here in the AGS/DOJ or hard of comprehension. They have been defeated in enough court cases on this definition, even when there is HC precedent law on looks like definitions. Their own rigged committee couldn't come up with a solution to this and they have been twisting like worms on a fish hook trying to find some sort of solution to this with no success in the reports. With that nonsense on .22 rifles and now Cat C straight pull rifles, or box mag loading shotguns simply say to anyone import the most tricked out tactically loaded looking gun you want, as they are not or ever will be "assault rifles" under Irish law, as no army in the world has ever issued a .22lr or .22 magnum rifle as its main armament and looks are subjective these days.

garrettod · 17-07-2023 1:14pm

Meanwhile, MeHole has gone off on a jolly, to Africa....

We really need to give FF a kicking, to show that we're not prepared to be their whipping boys.

Housing, Healthcare, Crime, Transport, are all a mess, and in need of urgent attention, and yet, they pick on those of us who obey the law, just because we're seen as a soft touch.