FEC committee & final report - **UPDATE post 442**

Grizzly 45

You meant FUNI. Well that has gone from strength to strength. Has its own webpage now [www.firearmsunited.ie]. Has over 3thousand followers on social media platforms.Is now ranking nr 1 in Google searches for firearms issues in Ireland Over 200 supporters and followers Sent a 20-page submission to the minister on the proposed firearms changes. Was nominated, accepted and joined FURG as one of the first groups in 2022 advised on the answers to the questionnaire that was sent out post the submissions Has met with three TDs in the Dail to discuss this matter in Leinster house,and is starting to be come a recognised name brand here . Has been mentioned a couple of times on the hunting podcast as to whom to contact if you have licensing problems. Was approached by EURONEWS last month to do an article on gun control in Ireland.Which was turned down as it turned out to be as predicted by the FUNI staff as a hatchet job by the "Irish"reporter. So the European branches of FU took it on in various ways So doing pretty well...Thanks for asking.

Grizzly 45

FURG needs to become a become a full time organisation governing all hunting and shooting sports in Ireland and absorb all the other shooting organisations. It then needs to lobby its members to vote for pro-shooting sports candidates in elections and be willing to fight court cases on behalf of its members.

It's not going to happen but that is what needs to be done. It's the only way to form a coherent voting block.

It would be the WORST thing to happen A one size that does not fit all organisations representing all disciplines in Ireland. It would be the same as making the GAA in charge of all sports played with a ball, because well...Balls are round and they are played on a green surface. Do you want a bunch of Fudds in their tweeds and SXS and Springer Spaniels deciding on pistol shooting,or a deer hunting organisation deciding on what rifles the long-range boys should use,and then elect themselves permanently into the positions because of the election process of the clubs having a representative that listens supposedly to everyone's gripes and may or may not kick it up the chain. Think BASC in the UK,what it was and has now become.

The theory of FURG is sound, An alliance of the shooting organisations with the representation of them at the ministerial level on a rotating basis at least Biannually.FUNI would hold for a quarterly meeting so that every organisation can raise its particular grievances. However, what is not happening is that its surprising the largest target shooting body is not engaging for whatever reason[s] and that is now leaving the target shooters out in the cold and leaving groups like FUNI and others to speak on their behalf! Not something we want to do when there is an established organisation that has its name under the FURG letterhead yet doesn't seem to participate in any discussions or planning. Gotta ask why?

Grizzly 45

That's all well and good however lets say they start looking at 22LR handguns next. What exactly can be done to prevent it? There is no cohesive voting block we can leverage to stop it. If something can be legally challenged ultimately they will shore up the legislation. I sound defeatist however I believe my point of view to be realistic.

Maybe have people in organisations that get PROACTIVE that we pay them to be? For example 2006 Assoc Garda Sgts and Inspectors conference May. Dermot Aherne Minister for Justice announces to prevent an "American style gun culture in Ireland" he was "going to tighten up on the legislation on firearms ownership" Where was NARGC/NASRPC/IPSA, etc,etc etc on that announcement? They should have been on Aherne like a pack of terriers demanding an explanation and what he meant with that statement....it was mentioned here by yours truly,and the smart arse response was "Ah sure the ass is falling out of the economy,and they'll have more important things to worry about than banning handguns!" November a gangland shooting in Limerick,that [MOD SNIP]used as an excuse to cynically hang legislation to create a literal Pearl Harbour attack on the Irish gun-owning community. It took a lot of blood, sweat,tears and money and sleepless nights to grandfather a pitiful few handguns and semi rifles in the district and high courts, but also got us the leveller of the possibility of compensation in the district courts as the stick over AGS heads.

This time round there has been a much better response from our organisations, and while it looks like there isn't much of a win sofar. Things are going on in the background that will strengthen our positions to prevent them trying stuff like this again. Already Browne is probably having sleepless nights on this topic and its going to get a lot worse for him.He already backpedalled quickly with the IFA came to visit him.As what to do on a practical level.Get MORE PEOPLE SHOOTING any type of disipline.It should be everyone's mandate to get at least two people into the sport every year. Even if they just try it it's something. The more people we have owned a certain type of firearm the more that is in votes against any politician who tries supporting anti-legislation and more of a voice for us.

Put it like this ...if every farmer in the IFA had a SACF and it was 400 instead of 40. Would they be banned?

BattleCorp

I am a target shooter. I own a semi automatic centrefire rifle. I use it for target shooting competitions. I will probably lose it under this new legislation.

Thanks for your crap attude towards certain gun owners though. So much for shooters sticking together.

BSA International

In the absence of a "dislike" button

I DISLIKE !!!!

Plenty out there asking why do you want the guns you have .........

BSA International

As for FUNI and it's membership.

There are a lot of shooting associations, Facebook groups and podcasts out there with few, if any actual members claiming to represent more than they do.

DOJ love it. They're all squabbling between each other while they pick us off piece by piece.

Soon only people with guns will be farmers.

judestynes

Why would we want to own one? Because some of them are historical. the semi auto function isn't new by any means and if there are classic or service rifle shooters out there shooting Garand's, M1's or SLR's Mauser G43, Remington model 8's or (insert your preference of classic self loader here)why shouldn't they? If you wish to extend that analogy , why would anyone here want to buy a sports car, the max speed limit id 120kph, easily achievable in most any car so why would anyone want an Astin Martin or Ferrari?

Minister Aherne referenced "American style gun culture" as his justification for the 2008 pistol ban, doing nothing but demonstrating his ignorance. There's other gun cultures to reference like the Swiss, Czech and Finnish, but he didn't know anything about them because no org here would bother to enlighten him. These bans are initiated purely because it's easier than tackling the root cause of the issues of gun crime, which is poverty and suicide and familicide, which is mental health.

otmmyboy2

Semiauto is the, by any measurable metric, bar possibly the fine end of accuracy, most efficient, practical, usable and more comfortable action type vs manually operated.

Reduces recoil, no disruption to shooters hand placement between shots, faster followup shots, etc.

Realistically there are precious few reasons to go for a manual action vs a semiauto, particularly for a normal shooters needs.

And that is aside from historical interest, collection, target shooting disciplines that require such, etc.

WHat are they afraid of?

otmmyboy2

Different views maybe, but same tools(ie guns).

The splintered nature of Irish shooting orgs does not and has not protected individual Irish gun owners from further restrictions and bans, thus that approach is not working.

Bottom line, regardless of which aspect of the sport is attacked, every org should fight that attack tooth and nail because otherwise one day it will be their sport under fire.

judestynes

"I can't fathom why anyone thinks all shooters should stick together just because they all shoot, do all GAA people stick together? Soccer players, boxers, runners, swimmers? No they don't because they all have different views on different subjects."

Yes they do, when the rules governing their sport are challenged they absolutely do.

freddieot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964376#Comment_120964376

It also helps lefties like me by the way.

Yes there are left hand rifles but they cost more than right hand, especially higher end models and then they are a hard sell second hand.

A big advantage with semi is that you don't lose position the way a lefties can when working the bolt.

Grizzly 45

The only reason I've seen put forward for ownership of a sacf that makes any sense to me personally is their use in classic competitions but having said that I'd be interested in how successful Irish competitors have been in these competitions to make as strong a case as possible.

Three people who shoot in Camp Perry,Ohio USA when they can afford to go over.Classic M14 and M16[civve version AR15]service rifle,classic M1 carbine and Garand. If you know anything about rifle shooting that this isn't the local county Hicksville shoot.

Why do I want one/Not that I or anyone else should have to justify it to anyone? But I like the modularity of the design of the AR platform and that I can make it anything I need within 5 minutes.From a .22 plinker to a wild boar hunting 450 SOCOM,to a semi-auto 12 gauge if it is on a 308 lower,or even up to a 50 cal BMG long rifle , by simply changing out the upper receiver. It can be changed from semi-auto to bolt action, pump action and single shot too. It suits my style of shooting and terrain and being a left handed person it also suits my disability[LH is recognised by the WHO as a disability of 12% of the Earth's population],and NO!Left-hand Bolt actions are not as common as claimed.

Why should I drive a Model T Ford when there is a more advanced design of car out there jI don't particularly like SXS shotguns .But if you want to spend 30 grand on one and dress up like a stand-in from Downtown Abbey while shooting overpriced Grouse in Scotland tomorrow morning, Well have at it. But don't preach to me or look down your long nose at what I shoot,because you are too stuborn to not realise ,eventually they will come for your Purdey or bolt action too.

judestynes

Why don't you try telling golfers due to an increase in the number of assaults' using 9 irons, only people who played golf before September 2015 can continue playing. If you got into the sport after that then tough sh1t, it's the pitch at putt course for you!

judestynes

I'm not angry, I'm frustrated. Not frustrated at the legislation or the uninformed representatives who passed it but at the shooting community in general. I could extend that frustration to the broader electorate. These reps are failing not only shooters, lets face they couldn't care less about us, but failing their most vulnerable constituents and they just keep getting elected because they, or one of their parents fixed a road back in 1981. We don't demand much of our reps and because of that, they don't deliver much but back to the point. What I said earlier is a very clear and easily understood analogy but if you don't understand the reference maybe you shouldn't really be in the conversation.

Feisar

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120964383#Comment_120964383

Taking your your analogy to other sports, running for example, there isn't a sprinters organisation for example. We're that splintered though. I believe we should all stick together as we are often used politically. Need to crack down on crime: ban legally held handguns.

Plus we have AGS making up the rules as they see fit, this needs to be combatted in so far as is possible.

Cass

MODERATOR WARNING

We have strayed far from the original topic of the thread.

Temperatures are rising and civility is on the brink of disappearing.

Let's get back on topic and allow calmer heads to prevail.

This will be the only warning on the matter and any post breaching this warning, the forum or site rules will be dealt with as appropriate.

BattleCorp

I didn't mean to be insulting but, being honest, I don't understand your mindset.

Sure, it's grand to you that the lads that have semi-autos are losing their guns. It's no skin off your nose, but it is skin off their nose, and my nose. There could come a day when your particular type of firearm(s) is under threat and I'm fairly sure you'd like the support of other firearms owners if that was the case.

I would argue that you don't have an open mind on shooting legislation. You've a closed mind. You've made up your mind that semi-auto centrefire rifles are bad. They are not bad. We all use them safely. One problem we had with the semi-autos is that there are only 39 of us who will lose our guns. The Government don't give a fiddlers fcuk about 39 people but if gun owners stuck together, there'd be tens of thousands of us. Votes from 39 families doesn't sway the Government. Over 50k votes might make them stop and think what are the consequences of p1ssing off so many voters.

Hopefully you'll see a unified front when it comes to the recommendations in the two FEC reports. They have the potential to screw every gun owner from the target shooter to the farmer and everyone in between.

I'm not a member of FUNI so I can't comment on anything they do. But even if you disagree with their ideals or their postings, you can still suport other shooters without supporting FUNI.

hiddenmongoose

I own a semi auto, it is licenced for target competition, but the primary use it was licenced for was vermin control. A semi auto is the perfect firearm for this, light for carrying around the fields for hours, very accurate at the usual fox control ranges, very quick on follow up shots as I find foxes often come in pairs or for a quick dispatch on a wounded animal.

Who needs politicians doing their best to ruin our sport when people like you are within the community. I have no interest in clay shooting, cant understand what would interest lads in it but I dont knock it , I have no interest in classical/ vintage rifles but wouldnt knock it, I have no interst in F Class or benchrest or silhouette shooting, yet I would never knock it and I would certainly support them if they were under pressure.

And no we were not all informed of a ban.. a obscure statment made by a disgraced politician ...I was never informed during the licencing process of any impending ban, it has been circulated by politicians involved that everybody would be informed and that everybody was.. this is not true.

You are the very reason our sport will be whittled down piece by piece.

They Call Me Trinity

I'm one of the lads that went up to Leinster house with Grizzly to make our case of grandfathering semi autos for lads that got them post 2015.

Grizzly has a semi auto that is pre-2015 and I don't have one at all. You might ask why did we bother to spend our day to fight this and why did I bother when I haven't one at all. Well, only an idiot would think that the powers that be would stop at semi autos, so I thought it best to fight any restrictions before it comes to my backyard.

You being a deer hunter, wouldn't you rather the shooting community behind you rather than fight on your own? Because you are probably next.

If we all fight for each other then we don't have to worry about TPTB coming for our sport.

hiddenmongoose

A true patriot !!! You must be a staunch FG supporter or family member as nobody refers to a politician as such. You need pull back from the Kool aid.

As for a convincing argument for me to be allowed have a SACF, it was good enough justification to licence it with the powers that be and therfore its good enough. It is also as convincing an argument as to why someone needs a semi auto shotgun, semi auto 22lr etc or any firearm for that matter.

One could argue who needs more than a 17HMR for humanely controling foxes. A SACF is a tool no more than any other firearm, like golf clubs each has a purpose and is more appropriate to a certain task.Could I putt with a driver, yes, is there a better tool..yes. Same with firearms, can I control fox with a bolt, of course, but i find a semi auto more appropriate for the reasons of quick follow up shots without losing sight picture especially at night under a lamp or with thermal.

As for the ban being openly discussed on forums,like many others I dont particularly do forums and rarely FB. I had the firearm licenced before I became aware of the issue. It should have been discussed with me during the licencing procedure, as has been stated it would by those including Fitzgerald who sought to impose this legislation but it was never mentioned. So the very process which is stated by Fitzgerald etc by which I should be informed did not actually occur. Claiming I should know about it because it was posted on boards is idiotic.

The statement by Fitzgerald was also not announced in the Dail, it was at a press announcement, it wasn't mentioned in the Dail for some time after.

You seem to have a very strong opinion that those who are losing their firearms should, which is a terrible stance as a member of the shooting community. I wonder when government come after your niche area of the sport will you hope for support from the shooting community as a whole? Your whole outlook is disgusting.

Those of us losing our SACF rifles only wish them to be grandfathered along with the pre 2015 licences, it is not much of an ask for approx 40 licences to be kept.

hiddenmongoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120968084#Comment_120968084

THIS !

If we all had this attitude, and stuck by each other in a positive manner, then things would be different and we could effect change. Fair play to you, it is a sorry shame that more didnt do the same, even sending an email or two would help..But no lets be divisive and revel in peoples losses, thing is it is OUR loss as a community as a whole, as it is an attack bit by bit on our sport and way of life and it is how it will be eroded.

freddieot

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120968624#Comment_120968624

I agree with you on everything. In particular there does seem to be an attitude that as long as there is a thread on boards in relation to pending or enacted legislation then everyone should know about it and take notice. If not it's the citizens fault. No real effort to directly contact the individuals affected.

Maybe I won't pay into the RTE slush fund (licence) next year unless there is a notice on boards or in some paper i dont read. Oh wait, they will write to me with the reminders and if it's increased or anything else is changed they will explain that in writing too. Easy for the State to contact people with information when it suits them. I would have thought that as a minimum that when people were originally applying to licence the post 2015 rifles that this should have been flagged to them at that point. Also, at this point, as the law is enacted, all affected should have been informed directly in writing. Instead we get the lazy attitude as usual.

As regards certain people being 'patriots', some of the most law abiding citizens in this "wonderful country" , including by the way those who protect the law, Gardai and the Army, were refused licenses for their firearms as a result of legislation drafted, supported and put in place by weak political clowns who in some cases feel celebrating the legacy of the RIC is a step forward.

Grizzly 45

"Patriotism...The last refuge of a scoundrel!" George Bernard Shaw

Oh wait, they will write to me with the reminders and if it's increased or anything else is changed they will explain that in writing too. Easy for the State to contact people with information when it suits them. I would have thought that as a minimum that when people were originally applying to licence the post 2015 rifles that this should have been flagged to them at that point. Also, at this point, as the law is enacted, all affected should have been informed directly in writing. Instead we get the lazy attitude as usual.

^ABSOLUTELY THIS^

Not ONE person has contacted FUNI on this matter, ever[ including yours truly] ever received any written notification on this proposed ban. During applications, granting, importing the rifle from DOJ/AGS etc.Up to a point too that AGS was still granting licenses for them up to the end of July of this year.

But we are ALL supposed to know about this from social media,range and gunshop scuttlebutt?? "Talk and water is[mostly] free in Ireland and everyone uses plenty of both!" As the old saying goes.So unless it's on paper with a harp on the letterhead. It didn't happen.

Demand off your chief Superintendent an official letter of revocation in his capacity of acting agent of the state in this matter. This is a legal and formal requirement under the firearms acts anyway and will be a formal piece of evidence in any future court cases. We have to do everything by the book for an application,they have do it by the book for a revocation.

freddieot

Maybe if the ptb are so really concerned about public safety, they might take their fingers off the backs of the law abiding firearms owners in this "wonderful" country. They could then concentrate better on trying to keep the tourists alive that help keep our economy afloat.

It seems, based for example on recent events, that this country, especially Dublin city, is being left to crumble into violent chaos, but hey, at least there are 40 less licensed SACF rifles doing the rounds.

This "wonderful" country is now a disgrace and it won't be long before it gets a name as a no go destination internationally. I suppose that means that to counter that image and justify their own incompetence, even more stringent gun laws are being planned, no doubt by more "patriots".

Cass

MODERATOR WARNING

I've culled the last few days of posts and their replies as things are going way off topic, and civility is being lost.

I've also merged this thread with the existing semi auto ban thread as it's redundant to have the same topics of conversation on two separate threads.

otmmyboy2

/MOD HAT ON

Folks, you will note a few of your posts have been edited and some posts removed.

This is in reference to a user on this thread who, contrary to mod's instructions, continued an argument from another thread in this one.

This is the reason for the edits/removals. I have tried to retain any comments which were substantive and not solely replying to the deleted posts.

I'd like to remind all of you, as Cass mentioned above, to keep to the thread's topic.

/MOD HAT OFF

Hope you all had a good weekend, in somewhat related FEC news RFDs have been issued with new books by the DoJ and are now being told to note essentially all information from the ammo boxes purchased, including headstamps, in this newly revamped book.

Again, so much for nothing changing before consultation with shooters eh?

Feisar

Is there a legal requirement for RFDs to follow this directive?

otmmyboy2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121005230#Comment_121005230

Good question, I know they are obliged to record details of all firearms & ammo transactions, but whether they have to do so solely in the DoJ provided books or with certain mandatory details I don't know.

Grizzly 45

There are enough dealers who will show you that they have had to resort to using school copybooks and others because they couldn't get new Dept issued firearms and ammo sale ledgers, especially ammo ledgers in a timely manner .As of course, these must come from the one and only approved Govt printing office.

As for must they fill this in. The relevant act is the 1925 firearms act Sect 12.It just says a register must be kept of sales, purchases, repairs, proof of both arms and ammo in the dealers.It doesn't say what are the exact details of all of the above must be.So I suppose if the new ledgers have spaces for this info,then yes. Wonder too, if is this a new brainwave from AGS to try and figure out if is there leakage of civilian ammo to the criminal fraternity?