The Pushback against Leftism

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119634626#Comment_119634626

Just to point out, “disability isn’t a choice” is not always true. Body integrity dysphoria, where people choose to remove healthy limbs is a choice and a choice that is increasing in prevalence along with other dysphorias.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119634631#Comment_119634631

Someone who denies climage change is real - is this a trick question, or are you not trying hard enough?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119634645#Comment_119634645

Now you're just trying to find an argument for the sake of it!

Why are people making me waste posts tonight??!

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119634648#Comment_119634648

Jesus the cost of living crisis must be hitting you hard if you have to ration your posts.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119634650#Comment_119634650

I know - and winter hasn't even started yet!

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119634651#Comment_119634651

...

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119634655#Comment_119634655

Fix the windows then! You'll need to eh.... let the Glzers in, though....

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119634648#Comment_119634648

Not arguing, just pointing out that some people do choose disability.

Also no one is “making” you post. You are choosing to post.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119634686#Comment_119634686

Seeing as we are unfamiliar with sarcasm, we will be closing the cash register at this point...

SafeSurfer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119634698#Comment_119634698

All of you? :-)

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119634679#Comment_119634679

I think this will have to be it for the Fr Ted memes...

As always, Glazers out!

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119634780#Comment_119634780

I do know people who don't beleive it's changing - believe me, they exist.

Doesn't really matter how common things like racism are, it doesn't change the fact that it's a problem. Saying that you're white and there's not much racism is a bit of a self-fulfilled prophecy. If you want to how common they are, spend a day with some black people. Ditto misogony: do a nightclub with a woman. Not saying you're right or wrong, I'm saying THAT'S how you find out.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119634804#Comment_119634804

none of those thing will go away 100% so what's the end game. Human nature is tribal. Why do you think LGBT has fallen back in on itself with Safe spaces and alike. The whole point back in the day was just to be seen as normal now special is the order of the day.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119634854#Comment_119634854

Never said they would - I said that just because they don't effect you (generally) or because you don't see much of them doesn't mean it's a small or exaggerate problem. Don't know enough if the "LGBT falling back on itself with safe spaces" comment is accurate or enough about it to comment on it.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119634556#Comment_119634556

Great to see all these new advocates for female sports emerging from the shadows, generally people wo never gave a toss about female sports before - no concerns about funding or equal access or equipment or support in their local clubs. Then the trans issue got highlighted by far right extremists looking to recruit new supporters...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119634557#Comment_119634557

Nothing had changed. Disability was never binary, except in the minds of those who had no actual understanding of disability.

This isn't about changing meaning. It's about opening minds to actual facts.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119634976#Comment_119634976

Female sport were never that popular with females in the first place. Funding was an issue because of that. Once it got wet and dirty I remember in school the girls wanted none of it. Now it seems to becoming more popular with the younger generation and funding is coming. There used to be issues in clubs with male and female only space so access to equipment was because of that. You're hardly going to close the place down for 50 boys so 5 girls can do some training. I could go on. Then we have the pay gap which is complete clap trap. Do all male footballers get the same as Cristiano Ronaldo no is the answer.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119635500#Comment_119635500

Sure what would people who spend their entire working lives studying these issues know anyway? https://www.thejournal.ie/readme/misinformation-enoch-burke-5862004-Sep2022/

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119637239#Comment_119637239

I read that a few days ago as it was posted in the LGBT Forum.

Utter rubbish from start to finish.

Highly amusing she's the author of a book entitled "Web of Lies"

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119637479#Comment_119637479

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119637687#Comment_119637687

If you haven’t noticed far right grifters using the trans issue for recruitment, you haven’t been paying attention.

https://twitter.com/bolshiebish/status/1571802466504654849?s=46&t=Vt83dKipoZp4H29aLdN9cg

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119637687#Comment_119637687

THIS is why the pushback doesn't get taken seriously:

Youve got nothing other that insults that sound great in your head but look ignorant and vindictive on a screen. Nothing.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119638534#Comment_119638534

"Common sense" is equality right?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119638534#Comment_119638534

Good point. The pushback is not being taken seriously by anyone.

The rest of your post is fallacy - argumentum ad populum to be specific - and it pretty much proves my point:

You got nothing,

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119637479#Comment_119637479

For all her research into such things she'e parroting the 1.7% of people are born Intersex line. A percentage that is repeated as fact by the Trans lobbyists. However decades of research into these conditions shows the percentage is more like 0.02 to 0.05/7. So this tweaking of the figures is debunked and she's essentially talking nonsense.

Note too how she goes from this sentence:

Let’s begin with sex. The majority of people are assigned either male or female sex at birth, based on the presence of certain genitalia.

And immediately follows it with this:

But approximately 1.7% of the world’s population are born intersex – almost equal to the number of people with red hair.

An attempt to conflate the two in the casual reader and make said casual reader think that nearly two out of every hundred people waling around are intersex/have atypical genitalia at birth/chromosomal conditions. Nearly as many as redheads and sure don't we all know a redhead. And again it's an agenda clothed in nonsense and provably so.

Oh and of those who do present with the suite of conditions that fall under the umbrella of intersex, the vast majority of them identify with the gender their genitals most resemble and as many aren't even aware they suffer from the condition. One such and one of the more common, adrenal hyperplasia presents in males and the symptoms are excessive acne and early balding, not identifying as female. Another, Klinefelter syndrome occurs in men and they also overwhelmingly identify as such. Another condition is where the urethra doesn't from properly and comes out at the bottom of the penis. Again they overwhelming identify as men. Other conditions include things like larger than normal clitoris in women and yet again they overwhelmingly don't identify as men. Tripple X syndrome in women, which means they have an extra X chromosome has a range of symptoms to it, but Trans is not one of them. In men with an extra X chromosome, most don't even know they have it, which goes for a fair number of these intersex conditions. So even if we take her bogus agenda percentages it would still be a tiny minority of those who would identify as Transgender.

Never mind the vast majority of Trans individuals present as their physical and chromosomal gender, so the intersex angle is a red herring.

Then we have this:

Although for many people their biological sex and gender identity align, for many others, they do not and this can cause major distress for them, often referred to as gender dysphoria.

Again observe the wording. "Many" is applied to both positions. Again designed to push an agenda not reality. It's not "many people" who align with their gender identity and biology, it's the vast majority of people. It's a minority who don't. Even if we take her own bogus figures it reinforces this. Even if it were 1.7%, and it's not, that would mean 98.3% do align. Unless I missed the memo regarding changed defintions of minority/majority that's the vast majority of people.

Oh and the studies she links to, or rather one study from thirty years ago, gives zero details on numbers and little on the methodology involved in said study. AKA crap science. Never mind if that had legs one would think there would be a lot more studies to back it up and recent ones with it, especially with Trans trending over the last few years.

AllForIt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119638747#Comment_119638747

I know Wibbs I know. I was going to respond with all those exact same points but I decided I couldn't be bothered as we've been over all this before in past threads.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119638747#Comment_119638747

So would you say she's representative of rhe left?

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119639020#Comment_119639020

These days? Christ knows PCB. Then again I try to avoid the imported Yank definition of Left/Right. By those measures I'd be either a damned commie or a goosestepping nazi depending on the particular American person's biases going in. Though overall much more of a damned commie from 'Yorp. What with my full support for social supports and socialised medicine and free education and oversight of industry and business, support for worker's rights, unions, among other things. I would consider something like US born libertarianism more a mental illness, or a selfcentered politic close to sociopathy. I'm way more to the old style Left than Right.

I would say she's a representative to some degree of the same American "left", or "liberal" that sprang up in US colleges back in the 80's and really kicked in in the 90's going mainstream in the noughties. Add in an increasingly shrill and devisive set of narratives that become almost like religions with the same faith based catechisms on both "sides" egging each other on and competing for attention and here we are. And unfortunately we here in Ireland have imported too bloody much of it IMHO. I suppose mainly by virtue of sharing a language and pivoting culturally at least more towards Boston than Brussels. When I see Irish based people on social media and even here spouting bollocks like MAGA and yep the buzzwords of the US "liberal" I'll admit it irritates.

And these narratives on both sides tend to throw out logic and science, or twist same to their agenda. And she's definitely pushing an agenda in that piece, just as much as those who spout a "web of lies" she claims and believes she exposes. Her bogus "science", bogus percentages, cognitive dissonance* and framing of language demonstrate this quite clearly. And I don't like being someone pissing down my back and telling me it's raining. And if anything it makes it more likely anyone with half a brain who is moving more centrist or even right read it and think I smell bullshít. Even if they'd need a weak sense of smell and taste to swallow the equal level of bullshít on the right.

My personal take on the Trans position? It's a mixture of Trans people where they actually do have intersex brains, a social trend where already confused young kids who are more likely to be simply gay, but then go on to feel Trans** because of this trend and some that yes have body dysmorphia that comes out as gender confusion. Confusion that is not helped by a monumentally excessive level of labeling of normal human diversity. On the one hand we're told labels are bad and yet we're adding more by the week, nearly always by the very same people saying labels are bad. And of course this ever more Us Vs Them divisive and 100% opposing corners.

I would also throw in something more than a little left field here so bear with me, flame throwers at the ready... The youth/adolescent countercultures and subcultures of times past have faded quite a lot, or more, there are so many that it becomes very nebulous. Where once you had hippies, mods, teddy boys, beatniks, rockers, punks, new romantics etc that were pretty defined, even if most only dwelt among the edges and most "grew out of it", today that's not nearly so much in play(for a start the choices these days are near infinite compared to even thirty years ago). So I would say some of this multtude of gender/sexuality labels particularly among the young are strong hints of that need of adolescents to belong, to feel part of a tribe, to feel comfort in that and to feel part of a movement of youth as they navigate their way into adulthood. Social media accentuates that in ways we couldn't have imagined in the past.

Take an unrelated area like eating disorders. There has been a rise in ED and other self harming behaviours concomitant with the rise of social media use among teenagers in both girls and boys. The latter were a rarity in the stats in pre internet days. I actually personally knew a school friend who ended up under medical supervision for an ED back in the 80s and he was the only guy on their books and on the wards when he was hospitalised(he fully recovered thankfully). This link is well established at this stage. That's how powerful this influence can be. We have even seen ED "support" groups online that encourage these conditions. Again it makes vulnerable people feel like part of a community that they don't feel among their peers and gives them a tribe to belong too. I would be shocked if we don't discover that this is also in play with some of this gender confusion.

My 3 cents anyway PCB.

*on the one hand; gender is a social construct, nurtue, on the other; look brain differences between the sexes! Make your mind up.

** I had a mad notion that this might be more in play among your right wing Christian religious nuts in the US. Y'know the ones who think being Gay is a choice. A Gay kid might feel it's better to come out as Trans because that something more "medical", that you're "born with" and out of your control.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119638534#Comment_119638534

Most people doing the pushing back seem to be far right Nazi extremists.

https://twitter.com/esqueer_/status/1571827344649719809?s=46&t=EaG6OhJWF-VQIShpsG3tqg

What’s the old saying- you can tell a man by the company he keeps, or something?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119638747#Comment_119638747

Does it really matter whether it is 1.7% or .17% or .0017%? All you need to do is treat people with a little bit of dignity and let them live their lives.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119639229#Comment_119639229

lol more like Antifa in Far right uniforms not a fit person amongst them. Far right types like that tend to be muscle bound meatheads.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119639238#Comment_119639238

if its .2 you would never meet someone in your life