Breaking... US Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

Frank Bullitt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119251960#Comment_119251960

You took some leap there at the end. It’s interesting the way you try and frame it as though you have some sort of compassion for women, yet would wilfully intrude on their privacy when it comes to things as sensitive as this.

Explain to me how I don’t support or “give a hoot” about women, when I am the one who will let a woman do what she needs and trust her decision her herself and her well being. But you need to know why they are doing it…yeah, sounds like you really have their back on this one there.

It is about choice, some choose not to, with this ban the choice is taken away from all women. And, just to point out for what feels like the millionth time, abortion bans do not stop abortions.

riclad

If you read the logic of the decision its frightening, eg abortion is not mentioned in the constitution and the laws of 1700s, 1800,s forbid it. So by that logic it would be easy to make marital privacy illegal. Contraception illegal, gay marriage illegal, women in America are now second hand citizens, and its a decision that's profoundly Christian, eg it ignores the fact that Jewish and other religions allow abortion to protect the woman's life or maybe in the case of rape, so it also legalised discrimination against jews, Muslims etc

And also the supremes said states must now pay for religious schools even schools discriminate against lgbt teachers or students

The laws of separation of church and state are nearly gone in America

This is a direct attack on the public school system some states could make it illegal for non married people to buy contraceptives

One option is Irish people can protest don't travel to America as a tourist don't buy American products or maybe products made in states controlled by republicans

like the 80s boycott of South Africa

Don't give them your money

If you are over 50 you'll remember Ireland in the 80s the church had great political power women had not many rights it was very difficult to acess contraception that's the direction many American states are heading in

And the Catholic Church and right wing groups have for years been campaigning for this ruling even though it go, s against the beliefs of most Americans

There will be likely more rulings against women's rights and against lgbt rights in the supreme Court this court is dominated by extreme right wing Catholics

Igotadose

Checks out

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119255243#Comment_119255243

Latest Supreme Court Photo.

Christy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119255296#Comment_119255296

I was not talking about abortions for other reasons, I was looking for a definition of mother's life at risk. Is it a number? Odds of 10% of death and you can get one? How does a cancer which would likely not kill the mother during pregnancy fall in as delayed treatment obviously increases the risk of death? What if we say 5% chance of killing the mother and 75% chance of fetus not surviving. Obviously though the odds of the mother dying depends pretty heavily on geography in the US so do we take into account what hospital they can afford or are we assuming they are getting the best treatment money can buy anywhere in the country?

If you want to allow abortion if the woman's life is at risk then you have to be able to define what that means and what level of risk you are willing to force others to take for that fetus. There is always a level of risk with pregnancy and medical services frequently offer no absolutes. Of course the more liberal you are with this the more will take advantage for "societal reasons" using medical as an excuse. The more conservative you are the more risks you are forcing others to take with their lives.

Igotadose

Further, some anti-choice states allow for abortion in the cases of incest and rape. How are either proven? How are they proven in time?

Lest we forget, many anti-choice states are in the top 10 in the US for maternal mortality risk. I imagine this won't go lessen over time.

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119255320#Comment_119255320

Pregnancy is not a disease, despite the best efforts of some on here to frame it as such.

More juvenile drivel from the man-child liberals.

dorothylives

America is a cesspit. The country is tearing itself apart. First it was the BLM race riots, ya know the ones where cities were burning but the news was reporting 'mostly peaceful protests' even though the flames were burning behind the reporter. Now it's abortion. A fractured broken country. You couldn't pay me enough to live there. Drug users openly shooting up on the streets and now all the woke lefties who voted on colour and feelz are up in arms and demanding something be done about the huge surge in crime. Be careful what you wish for. The American dream has become an ugly nightmare. Women should have the right to choose, their body their choice.

Loafing Oaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119255588#Comment_119255588

This ruling has thrown progressives in America a bit because their standard line about anti-abortion being driven by elderly white males doesn't entirely fit. The majority in this case are not particularly elderly, and not entirely white and male either. They do have one unifying characteristic though...

I remember reading in a feminist book, possibly Marilyn French's The War Against Women, many years ago that although the pro-life movement's most prominent leaders were generally evangelical Protestants, the real driving force was the Catholic Church. Maybe that is now being fully borne out.

It's a bit of a head-scratcher for them as the Catholic Church is in many ways a progressive force in American life but this may be the reality liberals will have to grasp if they are to respond effectively to this ruling.

A New York Times opinion column from Maureen Dowd Saturday claimed the Catholic Church is imposing its moral view on America by way of the Catholic conservatives on the Supreme Court.

https://www.foxnews.com/media/nyt-maureen-dowd-catholic-churchly-ethos-supreme-court-threatens-turn-america-upside-down

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119253747#Comment_119253747

I think this comment unwittingly highlights the conundrum however. If the legislature does not move to codify individual rights — then how else do those rights find true protection?

For my sins, I have read the Supreme Court’s judgment as well as the dissenting opinion by Sotomayor et al. I am resolutely pro-choice, but if I am honest the Court’s opinion around the Court not being the proper forum for the deciding of the abortion question (as opposed to the State legislatures) is actually not un-compelling*. Roe v Wade, as opposed to solid statute, was always a shaky foundation for such a fundamental issue. But that comes from the perspective of someone in a small common law jurisdiction where constitutional change and the finding of unenumerated rights by the Courts is seen as an almost celebratory process of the evolution of liberty. In America, such process is beset on all sides by division and constitutional fundamentalism.

In the context of the US system, the dissenting opinion — which grounds itself on the rights, liberty and equality of women (as well as the difficulty of placing emphasis on historical context in a wider context where women were excluded from the historical development of law and indeed treated as inferior) — is highly compelling in a country which cannot find itself fit to legislate on this matter. Statute would be better, but the State has failed to provide that protection and thus the Court becomes the next best means for women’s rights to be bolstered.

*some of the other arguments are far less convincing, particularly the reliance on historical considerations which the dissenting opinion correctly dismantles by detaching it from technicality and applying it to reality.

Juran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119255251#Comment_119255251

Exactly .. thats the point I was making. No one agrees with non prescribed pills by post for ANY medical treatment.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256047#Comment_119256047

Nonsense. Plenty of prescribed medications are available via mail. It's just one particular treatment you are objecting to. Why is that? https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.nbcnews.com/specials/millions-of-americans-receive-drugs-by-mail-but-are-they-safe/amp-index.html

extra gravy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119255811#Comment_119255811

How would you know what pregnancy is or isn't? Have you experienced pregnancy or have some relevant medical training?

This thread and the abortion debate in general is full of smug, self righteous mediocre men spouting opinions on something they haven't a clue about. The rest of us leave it to the women and their doctors and mind our own fúcking business.

Ham_Sandwich

the idea that abortion is banned is insane trump did such a number on america it got turned into a backwards dark ages country women are now basically second hand citizens and can be made to have laws against them mad stuff altogether

tooka

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256282#Comment_119256282

Isn’t that what you yourself are doing - women don’t need your help to make their points for them. They don’t need you to talk for them

PS - all women hate men who act the white knight, they see them for the predators they are

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256425#Comment_119256425

I'd offer that a fair percentage of America was this way. Trump just helped move it along. So did GWB, GHWB, Reagan, ... Forced birthing has been a thing in the US since forever, and the GOP, the criminal enterprise known as the RCC and the Evangeliban made enormous amounts of money off of it. If anything, they might lose out some now as the simple soundbites won't garner the income anymore.

I am also pleased there's a bit of backlash against the Democratic party. They too, deserve a lot of the blame. RBG not the least among them deserving massive criticism - her ego means all the things she did fight for are now up in smoke.

extra gravy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256439#Comment_119256439

They definitely don't need holier than thou catholics like yourself preaching to them about what they should and shouldn't be doing. Take a look closer to home if you're looking for predators.

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256282#Comment_119256282

Touched a nerve?

You're also quick to point out men and women whereas a those of a liberal leaning will tell you that gender is a social construct.

tooka

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256515#Comment_119256515

Blessed are those who are persecuted because of righteousness, for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

we are the righteous as we seek to protect the child. We don’t agree that the choice to murder a baby is something that should be cheered and celebrated. We believe that when a woman becomes pregnant that baby is not just her baby but also the fathers and the grandparents and the communities. We are all gods children

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256685#Comment_119256685

Who defines righteousness in this case?

Does righteousness extend to telling a distraught rape victim that they will be forced to carry their rapist’s baby for a full pregnancy?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256685#Comment_119256685

Cool, so you must support major reforms in terms of gun control? Cause your post history doesn't indicate you care a whole lot about issues like that. The unborn have constantly factored higher among the US right over those who have been killed in school shootings etc.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256282#Comment_119256282

Did you really tell someone that they need medical training to know what a pregnancy is? That's up there with "I can't give you the definition of a woman because I'm not a biologist".

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256685#Comment_119256685

That's a load of shite.

My kids don't in any way belong to the community.

And you should really keep your God stuff to yourself. Grand that you have a belief, but it's personal and unique to you. Nobody else shares your belief.

Juran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256137#Comment_119256137

Precription medication is approved for use only when it is precribed by a medical doctor. Any medication obtained without a precsription either by post or other means is unregulated and carries a very high risk. All medication has potential to cause adverse affects, and many have contraindications, for example .. Do not use if you take medication X, have high blood pressure, are pregnant, etc.. i think you will find that most people would object to a non medical professional supplying their family or friends medication without a doctors precription and dispensed by a licenced pharmacy.

This thread is about the RvW topic by the way.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256047#Comment_119256047

Ahh, o.k. you're good with ru486 etc. being obtained via mail then? As long as it's prescribed appropriately?

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256715#Comment_119256715

It's amazing how "their rapist's baby" get's wheeled out, though this example is missing the usual 15-year old rape victim included.

How many abortions are happening owing to rape? Answer - it's barely 1% 3711005.pdf (guttmacher.org) Page 113.

Incest 0.5% in there too.

The vast majority of people including alot of ProLife people support abortion as an option for victims of rape and incest.

Now, one thing that jumps out of the data is pressure from partner/husband/parents accounts for up to 20% of factors in seeking an abortion - yet you'll have some on here telling you that it's between the woman and the doctor and everyone else should mind their own "fcuking" business.

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256869#Comment_119256869

So for 80% its not. For them you are taking away their choice. A white knight indeed.

tooka

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256761#Comment_119256761

Why would I keep it to myself? Do we not live in a free society where people can say and do as they please as long as they physically do no harm to themselves or to others. Or is it just catholics who must watch what they say.

hypocrite thy name is the dunne.

nobody else shares my belief - millions right across the world and across religions feel like me. There are millions of us and the American Supreme Court action gives us all hope that God is answering our prayers

yagan

Why is it that anti abortionists are usually on the same side as those wanting more guns in schools?

Is it a embracing the rapture thing?

Sudden Valley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256927#Comment_119256927

You are right that millions share your belief but millions of catholics across the world and in ireland are prochoice. Enforcing a minority view on the majority will eventually fail.