Breaking... US Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

Mic 1972

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257651#Comment_119257651

In other words the vaccines were forced upon people, but that's a entirely different conversation that has been done plenty of times already.

In the vast majority of cases a woman is responsible for getting pregnant, she's not being forced. If there is value in an unborn child then she should be accountable for it. Personally, I lean towards pro-choice, but the idea that women are being forced to carry a pregnancy makes no sense

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257689#Comment_119257689

I take it then since you won't answer the question, that you're just trolling for likes for your forced-birth position. Pretty contemptible but goes along with forced-birtherism.

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257693#Comment_119257693

No, again, they were not forced upon anyone. You and anyone else are entirely free to choose whether you received them or not. Just as the government is free to pass laws requiring being vaccinated to attend schools, or work in a hospital.

Repeating a lie doesn't make it true.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257693#Comment_119257693

Really? Lawsuits brought by neighbors, doctors going to prison, health checks (esp. body temperature) when crossing state lines, and this isn't forcing women? What defines forcing women to carry a pregnancy? Imprisonment for 9 months after a mandatory checkup by the state if your menses app reports a skipped period?

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257420#Comment_119257420

Well, a 2020 study by the WHO on adolescent pregnancy found that about 12 million girls aged between 15 and 19 give birth every year, as well as 700,000 under the age of 15. That’s a lot of what we would consider to be statutory rape or girls roped into arranged / coerced marriages from a young age. They just don’t have the accessibility, rights or privilege to have much of a voice in the global debate or to ever get close to professional abortion advice.

The hypocrisy in your post is clear as day — you have spelled out that you believe a distinction can be drawn between human life in the womb depending on the circumstances of the pregnancy. Obviously, you would never say the same thing about a born child — i.e. you wouldn’t advocate that a 6 month old child be “aborted” even if it were the offspring of rape and the mother’s mental health was in tatters. But, happily or otherwise, you are advocating it in the case of a foetus. So clearly even you would draw a moral distinction between the value of life to be applied to a foetus and a born child respectively. In applying that distinction, you just apply the moral standard you are comfortable with, and then call it “pro-life” — when it’s actually a pick-n-choose version of pro-choice.

In essence, there are many born people all across the world who are the products of either rape or what we would define as statutory rape (including in arranged / coerced marriage arrangements). Under your world view, in an Irish context it would have been permissible for these people to have been terminated in the womb. Yes or no?

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119246113#Comment_119246113

That has nothing to do with the point I was making regarding the understandable frustration of the voter who is feeling under minority rule - whether the system is working as designed or not. The structure of the system does not impact in any way how people can justifiably feel - you can feel as repressed in a federal state as in a dictatorship.

You're the one being 'deliberately disingenuous or politically ignorant' here if you're trying bring the House of Representatives into this discussion. The House of Representatives have no meaningful role when it comes to the Supreme Court nomination process which is the issue we are discussing here with this ruling.

Again, my comparison to Ireland is no more absurd than your comparison with the EU. As part of the EU where does Ireland have the same power as Germany to confirm political ideologue judges who at their whim demand loosing guns laws in Germany, enforce religious funding in Germany, or restrict the rights of the German public?

Starfire20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119256685#Comment_119256685

there is no child to protect. A child, by definition, is born.

who's murdering babies? thats a crime. Better report it to the police.

and also, what you "believe" is irrelevant.

It is a matter for a woman and her doctor.

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257693#Comment_119257693

Except when they don't want to carry a pregnancy to term, and can't access an abortion, then they are being forced to carry it.

How much value do you place on a zygote/foetus? And why should you values be put on others?

Mic 1972

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257719#Comment_119257719

If you don't like the idea of carrying a child, can you at least try not to get pregnant? with freedom come responsibility and accountability. Make your choice, deal with the consequences

Starfire20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257759#Comment_119257759

yeah, you cant catch a pregnancy from being in close proximity to someone but you can catch covid.

colour me shocked that the right are being disingenuous and trying to equivocate

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119246124#Comment_119246124

You have not been able to point to any CRT in any of the banned math books because it doesn't exist - it is made up to scare people like you and you've fallen for it.

Banning books is an extreme example of big government, just like telling women what they can or cant do with their bodies is an extreme example of big government, as is telling people who they can or cant love or marry is an extreme example of big government.

Republicans and the right absolutely love big government when they are in charge of it and it is impinging on the rights of people they disagree with, the idea they want small government is a complete myth.

Starfire20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257766#Comment_119257766

and there it is...it's the womans fault for having sex.

she needs to be punished

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257766#Comment_119257766

Yawn.

O.K., now assume every choice to prevent conception was taken and still the fertilized egg was implanted. What next? Note, not even bringing up rape or incest in this arc of the thread. No form of contraception is 100% effective. Certainly using contraception is very much trying not to get pregnant as you put it.

Of course, you know that the GQP are going to push to restrict contraception, too. Much like the Criminal Enterprise known as the RCC did in Ireland.

Or, does your argument boil down to, "Someone got laid, I didn't, they got pregnant, well, now you're stuck, missy!"

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119246397#Comment_119246397

Equating being asked to wear a mask with being asked to carry your rapist's baby for 9 months isn't an example it is absolute nonsense.

end of the road

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257504#Comment_119257504

this is just an irrelevant rant with no substence and fails to argue in any way against his point, which you are unable to do clearly hence your arguments have once again, been destroyed as they always are.

he won't be minding his own business and he will be expressing his opinions and stating facts, there is not a jot you can do about it and no amount of aggressive and abusive posts from you will change that reality.

Mic 1972

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257776#Comment_119257776

These are 4 books that were banned in Florida for CTR content

• Big Idea Learning LLC.
• Houghton Mifflin Harcourt.
• McGraw Hill LLC.
• Sarvas Learning Company LLC

https://rationalinsurgent.com/examples-of-crt-in-math-books/

Books have been banned because they provide examples regarding race theory.

Specifically:

• Twenty-eight books have provided examples that are prohibited in America.
• Fourteen books have posted lots of unsolicited strategies.
• Twelve percent of the books have been banned for the false information that they are claiming.

Detailed examples with images and screenshots from such books are available here

https://www.nbcmiami.com/news/local/florida-gives-examples-after-math-books-rejected-for-crt-other-issues/2742102/

growleaves

'These are 4 books that were banned in Florida for CTR content'

Banned from use in the curriculum.

No one is being actively prevented from reading these masterworks of literature in a private capacity.

Starfire20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257822#Comment_119257822

the party of "free speech" banning books that hurt their feels. lol

growleaves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257860#Comment_119257860

They aren't banned though. They just won't be taught to children as part of the state curriculum.

Another open goal for DeSantis since only a super-minority of fanatics want young children to be taught anti-racist mathematics.

Igotadose

Even better, neither Mic nor leafy can actually follow links. It was 54 books from 4 publishers. Not just 4 books.

And, Florida has yet to define CRT beyond 'something something 1619 project something we don't like." Easy to ban things based on that. Dan Marino never winning a super bowl? That's CRT! Ban it!

But, you know, forced birthers and math don't mix well.

Starfire20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257890#Comment_119257890

ermmm..they are banned as part of the cirriculum.

the perpetually outraged folks on the right have taken some perceived offence in some school text books and now want to micro-manage the school curriculum.

i guess this is inline with the party of creationism alongside actual science etc.

nolivesmatter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257531#Comment_119257531

Some of the most entertaining posts though you have to admit.

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257731#Comment_119257731

Well, a 2020 study by the WHO on adolescent pregnancy found that about 12 million girls aged between 15 and 19 give birth every year, as well as 700,000 under the age of 15. That’s a lot of what we would consider to be statutory rape or girls roped into arranged / coerced marriages from a young age. They just don’t have the accessibility, rights or privilege to have much of a voice in the global debate or to ever get close to professional abortion advice.

Yes, U18 girls getting pregnant whether or not in an arranged and/or coerced marriage is truly awful and work needs to be done to drive these levels down. But I don't think offering abortions services is going to put much of a dent in those rates as the majority of the issue is cultural.

The hypocrisy in your post is clear as day — you have spelled out that you believe a distinction can be drawn between human life in the womb depending on the circumstances of the pregnancy.

Your projecting again. Re-read my post where I mentioned abortion in cases of rape and incest.

Obviously, you would never say the same thing about a born child — i.e. you wouldn’t advocate that a 6 month old child be “aborted” even if it were the offspring of rape and the mother’s mental health was in tatters.

Obviously!

But, happily or otherwise, you are advocating it in the case of a foetus.

Nope, sorry - try again. I've never said all pregnancies due to rape and or incest should end in abortion. That is absurd. Many women are very strong and are able to cope with going through a full pregnancy following rape. They sometimes give the child up for adoption afterwards, many rear the child themselves or with a new partner they find to love the child together with. For some women this is mentally impossible for them and this is (thankfully very rare) where I support the option of abortion being available. It's called compassion.

So clearly even you would draw a moral distinction between the value of life to be applied to a foetus and a born child respectively.

Agreed. But both of these stages of human life are at the height of their natural innocence and need as much protection, love and guidance as possible.

In applying that distinction, you just apply the moral standard you are comfortable with, and then call it “pro-life” — when it’s actually a pick-n-choose version of pro-choice.

Pro-choice is based on the "my body, my choice" mantra which ignores the other body in the equation. Sometimes there are competing interests in a pregnancy which alot of ProLife people recognise and in the very rare instances where abortion is the last option of resort it is with a heavy heart that needs must. Pro-choice people think they see hypocrisy and weakness in that argument - but it really is only a point-scoring attempt at a "gotcha" in order to deflect away from their own shallowness.

In essence, there are many born people all across the world who are the products of either rape or what we would define as statutory rape (including in arranged / coerced marriage arrangements). Under your world view, in an Irish context it would have been permissible for these people to have been terminated in the womb. Yes or no?

Yes.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257822#Comment_119257822

None of that is an actual example of CRT. Saying something is CRT does not make it CRT. For example, SEL is not CRT.

Again, even if there is CRT in the text books the act of banning them is the act of big government and is being driven by and celebrated by the right, just like (bringing this back on topic) the act of banning abortion is that of big government and is driven by and celebrated by the right.

They love big government and the evidence is right in front of you given the topic of this thread.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257977#Comment_119257977

I very much doubt you'd share the same view of they were teaching children about the glories of the white race, instead of what's essentially the opposite. You're essentially saying teachers should be free to do as they please with other peoples children, once you agree of course. It's actually worrying that in comparative sense you think children should be treated just like adults in regard to their freedoms.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257860#Comment_119257860

I really don't know how they do the mental gymnastics it must take to ignore the evidence in front of their faces regarding the policies they support.

Saying they are the party of free speech while banning speech they don't like, the party of religious freedom while attacking practically every religion but theirs, the party of small government while trying to control the bodies of their citizens and who their citizens love

Manic Moran

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257754#Comment_119257754

Murder a pregnant woman in many states in the US, and you get charged with two murders. That includes, for example, California, where abortion is, of course, quite legal. The legal protections for the fetus apparently depend on who is making the decision.

https://www.nbcnews.com/id/wbna4670123

It's not quite as clear-cut as you imply, which is why there is such a national dispute on the issue.

Starfire20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258011#Comment_119258011

being hypocritical never mattered to the right.

Starfire20

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119258028#Comment_119258028

the right generally believes in life at the moment of conception.

how many of them would be in favour of paying child support from the moment of conception?

nolivesmatter

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119257754#Comment_119257754

"there is no child to protect. A child, by definition, is born.

who's murdering babies? thats a crime. Better report it to the police."

Wow. You just solved the debate. You should say that to console women who've suffered a miscarriage, particularly those late into their pregnancy. If they only knew there was no child maybe they wouldn't be so upset.