Breaking... US Supreme Court overturns Roe v Wade

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272038#Comment_119272038

Your point just doesn’t make rational sense though. Ignoring the vast degrees of difference between the vaccine rules which were actually imposed (noting of course that no forced vaccination was ever imposed, nor was it ever going to be) and what an unwanted pregnancy involves for a woman is like ignoring the degrees of difference between between a shove and an assault. A shove and an assault are similar in basic premise, and a shove can be an assault depending on the circumstances, but the degree of difference is readily accepted as a matter of rationality. And that’s a generous analogy, because the vaccine rules and forcing someone to continue with a pregnancy really aren’t analogous at all.

The mantra of “my body my choice” is not some legally defined doctrine, it was a slogan used specifically during the abortion debate. And the word “choice” is important there — because that’s a key distinction. The vaccine rules still allowed for choice — you were still allowed to choose whether to take it or not and to weigh up what practical difficulties not taking the vaccine would present for you. Forcing someone to continue with a pregnancy does not involve any choice for that person. Applying the term “my body my choice” equally to vaccines is odd, because ultimately you still had a choice.

Igotadose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119264041#Comment_119264041

The 'rape exception' is pretty vague in states that have it - they'll harass doctors over it into leaving the state in question or sending the person to another state. Politico has a pretty good analysis of what's happening wrt to it: https://www.politico.com/news/2022/06/27/abortion-exceptions-doctor-shortage-00042373

To summarize the article, quoting the head of the Yellowhammer Fund: "It's bullshit."

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272216#Comment_119272216

Are any of you able to read?

There were a cohort of people on the left who were in theory happy to have vaccine mandates introduced, we thankfully never reached that point but the intent was there that bodily autonomy should be over ruled in that situation. A reasonable number of those same people, some might say the vast majority, also put bodily autonomy on a pedestal in the case of abortion.

Each and every one one of these replies I've gotten seemingly gets purposefully further and further away from the point. There are all sorts of bells and whistles being added on here and attributed to me which I never cited.

This just proves that hardliners, be they left or right wing hardliners will take all sorts of scenic routes around the bleeding obvious in an attempt to save face.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272038#Comment_119272038

Again, if the left had brought in laws that demanded vaccination or people were to be thrown in jail they would be as big hypocrites right now but it never actually happened.

Of course both sides are capable of being hypocrites but you're the one who went out of your way to respond to my post based on a completely imagined thing you felt the left might have done while ignoring the actual extreme big government action and hypocrisy on the right.

No one made you try to points score and 'both sides' the situation and to fail miserably. As another poster said, stop digging.

BTW, I never called you that. Below is my direct quote - where did I name you? I don't know what your opinion is on masks or the vaccine but it is clear at this point you certainly fit the description of wanting to be a victim despite no evidence.

Those poor right wing anti-mask and anti-vaccine snowflakes and their hurt feelings. Always wanting to be the victims despite no evidence to support it.

igCorcaigh

They've hobbled the EPA now too.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272433#Comment_119272433

There were a cohort of people on the left who were in theory happy to have vaccine mandates introduced, we thankfully never reached that point

Great - we're all on the same page that it never happened and this is all in your head.

Can you now stop trying to compare it to something that is actually happening?

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272485#Comment_119272485

Legislating from the bench day after day with no regard for precedent.

If it was democrat appointees doing this the right wing media would be burning down.

Biggest thing is that it'll make red states even poorer and sicker than they already are - not that anyone on the right cares about that.

Big companies aren't going to apply two different standards to their products and the biggest populations and spenders are in blue states that will set up their own regulations.

ArthurDayne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272433#Comment_119272433

Hmm, you seem very determined to defend the point though — for something which you openly concede is the real versus the theoretical.

Like what you’re essentially saying here is that mandatory vaccination, actually forcing people to take it, did not happen but that there was a ‘cohort’ of “the Left” that might have supported it in principle. In simpler terms therefore, only a few on the “the Left” actually supported that concept and certainly few enough people for it to be pushed in any serious way as an actual policy by the so-called “Left”. Abortion restrictions on the other hand are real, tangible and supported in significant enough number as to realistically be pushed as policy.

For whatever reason, you are selecting a minority as a representative example of some massive hypocrisy.

Tonesjones

When

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271342#Comment_119271342

I wish I could play jazz.

What certain belief systems? To only thing you have shown to be daft is your ability to make comparisons.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272708#Comment_119272708

Left leaning belief systems are daft, just like right wing ones, hilariously criticism of either results in being labeled as part of the opposite camp to what you're being critical of.

You think it's daft to say that when a group of people says something isn't important one minute and that is suddenly is important the next that there isn't any grounds for citing their inconsistency?

AbusesToilets

By left leaning, do you mean having the idea that society and government should serve the best interests of its citizens, rather than focus on maximising profits for private businesses?

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272570#Comment_119272570

Prior to the weakening of covid through Omicron vaccine mandates were very much on the table and it wasn't a small number of the left wing calling for it as being pro vax was something that became central to left wing ideology during covid and the opposite was true for the right. These became entrenched in the ideology of the left and right therefore it isn't unreasonable to recall the left being in favor of vaccine mandates.

There is a clear inconsistency in relation to bodily autonomy within left wing thinking, having a handful of posters here saying that isn't the case doesn't change that fact.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272495#Comment_119272495

Stop highlighting the fact that left wing attitudes to bodily autonomy are inconsistent? No thanks.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272460#Comment_119272460

You made that snowflake comment in response to me, how else should I have appropriated it?

Again, jail terms for vaccine refusal were never on the table, another completely made up notion.

The nature of a discussion forum is that people can comment on things you say. You don't get to shut people up just because what they're saying doesn't suit you.

The point remains that left wing attitudes to bodily autonomy are inconsistent. You don't like that being highlighted, fine but I still have a right to call it out.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272188#Comment_119272188

Facts are Facts. That's what we voted on. Irrelevant that currently there is not appetite to change it.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272778#Comment_119272778

I'll assume you're addressing me here.

No, is the answer to that, left wing groups in capitalist states have traditionally strived for a better deal for the working person and to take greedy individuals or corporations to task which is not the case today.

I would have in the past identified as left wing on those grounds but increasingly left wing has become an umbrella term for something very different.

I think some of these changes may have something to do with the rise of tech companies who have a lot of left wing aligned views which they tend to promote, which in itself is fine but they also act with the type of impunity that greedy corporations of the past also acted with which is excused by the modern left which is another logical and or moral inconsistency of the modern left.

The lines between left and right aren't as defined as they were previously, the left now have their own multi billion dollar corporations that notionally support similar causes as the left so those corporations own behavior is never called into question as they are seen as allies.

Also pretty much every major business entity in the world has learned that "virtue signalling" helps their interests, ironically enough, as has been highlighted recently a lot of these companies will endorse Pride month in their western territories but would never dream of doing so in the middle east, yet another inconsistency.

And that's the problem with the modern left, it's like a Frankenstein's monster of bit and bobs of different beliefs with blind eyes turned to inconvenient issues so now much like the right anny sane person shouldn't trust anything comes out of their mouths.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272806#Comment_119272806

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272790#Comment_119272790

If I said wet cats smell in a post to you would you presume I was saying you smell? If you didn't fall into the description of people I noted in the term they love to throw around then why would you believe I was talking about you?

How can their attitudes be inconsistent when you've repeatedly admitted to completely imagining the situation in question that you felt might happen but never actually did?

A person can't get outraged and call hypocrisy on things that they were just scared about and there is no evidence that they ever came even close to actually happening... well a person probably can but it would take the fragility of a snowflake.

I perfectly understand the nature of a forum - you're free to comment on things I post but you in turn then leave yourself open to the many posters who have highlighted how incredibly weak your comment then is and how it isnt grounded in reality.

You made your comment based on your feelings rather than facts and are now continuing to flail back and forth between lashing out and playing the victim because people have pulled you up on it.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119273111#Comment_119273111

When you reply to me individually what you say to me can reasonably be appropriated as a commentary on me.

I never stated anything was imagined by me. I stayed that the left have a inconsistent set of opinions on bodily autonomy citing evidence, you are stating that because vaccine mandates weren't enacted that people on the left supporting them as a concept should be immune from criticism for supporting the concept which is comical.

Just because you and three other posters with similarly aligned beliefs are telling me that I'm a naughty boy for highlighting facts that are inconvenient to left wing types I'm not going to tuck tail and run away. Would you do the same in the face of similarly preposterous counter-arguments from people you disagree with?

You keep banging on about feelings and how I'm not basing my argument in facts. That is a dishonest take to say the least, you just don't agree with or like what I'm saying, well boo hoo for your feelings.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119272832#Comment_119272832

That's called a hypothetical and it will remain so as I factually indicated to you. Your facts show a clear inability to grasp political realities but each to their own. That box has been ticked and mostly we've all moved on.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119273176#Comment_119273176

The Law we voted on is not a hypothetical though is it. Were going around in circles You think it will not change I'm being realistic. Any Government on any day can change the availability. Thats a fact Denying reality does not make that go away.

pjohnson

Basing a demented argument/comparison on a hypothetical situation and then claiming its a fact based argument is amazing.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119273193#Comment_119273193

You're confusing two things here. We didn't vote on any law, we voted on a constitutional change that allowed for legislation. That legislation came from the entire Dail. To do away with it would require a Dail majority to amend or replace it. Given the nature of it there is absolutely no circumstance now or in any foreseeable future where over 50% of the Dail would feel a need to vote it down. It is far more likely that science and medicine will come to address that question more completely over time.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119273204#Comment_119273204

Are you saying the law we voted on does not exist ?

The law allows government to change said availability. Fact.

are you denying this reality ?

having a belief it will not change is not reality. It can change Fact. Unless you can give me the winning lotto numbers I would not be so sure to predict the future.

Where As I am not predicting the Future I am presenting the fact that the law allows change.

pjohnson

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119273219#Comment_119273219

Nah I'm refering to how the vaccine = pregnancy theory has evolved into an even crazier stand point.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119273216#Comment_119273216

semantics now we allowed the government to create and amend this law. They could not have created this law without that change.

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119273153#Comment_119273153

Saying something is a fact does not make it a fact.

Your feelings about or what Tucker & co fearmongered what left might have thought about doing but never actually came anywhere close to doing is not a fact.

Your opinion and comments are based on your feelings not on any facts - to claim otherwise is utter delusion.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119273246#Comment_119273246

Repeating a lie doesn't make it true.

You claimed earlier that I was making this point out of "fear" which a complete pile of horse manure.

The fact is that the lefts inconsistency in relation to bodily autonomy is not based on my feelings, no matter how much you try to gaslight me. It is self evident to any rational person and I'm afraid that rational is not a label we can apply to people who operate in service to a flawed belief system, people such as yourself.

extra gravy

https://twitter.com/TheGoodLiars/status/1542590872306565126?t=gbEl49VNS-LVmsJs5i8epw&s=19

Brains to burn these "christians".

Foxtrol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119273302#Comment_119273302

I am sorry if my belief that your feelings are not facts upsets you.

Not sure what emotion has driven you to imagine a situation that never actually occurred, to then claim it is a fact, and to use it as the basis of an attempt to point score when it wasn't even related to the OP. I presumed fear was the driver but I'm open to correction. I suppose it could be hatred, or anger, or maybe it isn't due to emotions at all, just never learning the difference between real world and make believe.

Can only presume people are getting sick of this going around in circles. As long as you continue to call your feelings facts I don't think we're going to get anywhere.