Snooker Season 2022/23

Strumms

6-2 Wilson leading, playing pretty well, looking confident and only needing 3 more.

Barry doesn’t look on his game. A pity, was quite looking forward to watching this today but it’s been a performance hampered by mistakes, particularly ropey safety play.

Arthur Daley

Surprising, Hawkins looked to be unstoppable against Williams. A bit like the Masters, he might have run out of steam for the final.

Joe_ Public

I mean, Barry not taking the free ball there was such a bizarre decision, i can't understand what his thinking was. Did he just expect Kyren was going to stick him in plum, wasnt that difficult a snooker to get out of nor that difficult a pot on the pink. Sums up his match today for me, just never on it for wjatever reason.

Spiderpig92

Only four 50 breaks in the match and surprisingly only one for Kyren. It won't go down in the history books as a classic by any means...

Joe_ Public

Sad to hear today that Clive Everton has just produced his last ever edition of Snooker Scene after 51 years and over 600 editions. Not clear if that's the end or if someone steps in to take on the baton, but feels like the end of an era either way. Probably better known as a commentator, but Clive was first and foremost a journalist at heart, fearlessly independent and snooker was lucky to have him all those years. Health obviously not been great so past time for him to look after No.1.

Arthur Daley

I'd presume Dave Hendon and Phil Yates would keep it going.

Joe_ Public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119571258#Comment_119571258

Seems it's not going to happen. Dave was always the successor in waiting but he's so busy with commentary duties, he's not going to be taking it on. Wpbsa not interested either so not sure where that leaves things, very uncertain anyway.

Spiderpig92

Sad to hear that - have collected Snooker Scene every month for years. It would certainly mark the end of the snooker magazine era - Can remember back years ago there was several on the go during the boom - cue world, world snooker magazine etc

Joe_ Public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119573591#Comment_119573591

Cue world, that's going back! Remember the old Pot Black magazines from that time too. Also remember how all the main news outlets had dedicated snooker corrs up to around late or mid-90s - Trevor Baxter for the telegraph i think, Clive for the Guardian and Yates for the times of the main ones. Trevor actually ran his own magazine for a while but not sure it lasted that long. In the circumstances, i think it was a remarkable achievement for Clive to last as long as he did, can't imagine it's a very viable project economically in todays climate, particularly doing hard copy.

Joe_ Public

I think this is what happens when there isn't much snooker on - lively debates about formats and Mark Williams seeming to back the idea of a breakaway tour though, as ever with MJW, hard to know whether he's taking the piss or not.

Anyway, the idea of making the Worlds a 128 flat draw event, as Shaun suggests, seems rather far fetched given they've just done the exact opposite with the UK. The BBC has the clout here and can't see they would ever allow that to go ahead, before you even consider the logistical implications of such a change. Keeps everybody talking, though, i suppose.

https://twitter.com/announcerphil/status/1569684880233046023?s=20&t=lRFiBVmrT_ssED1bBCpRAg

Spiderpig92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616039#Comment_119616039

Joe I would go so far as to say it is nonsense! The ranking system exists so that players are rewarded for good/consistent form. The top 16 players have earned the right to take their place in the TV stages. Lets not forget that these elite players were themselves qualifiers at one point or another so everyone has to go through the rigorous qualifiers! The rewards are there for 17-128 if they are playing well enough at that time - look at Shaun himself in 2005, to a lesser extent Terry Griffiths in 1979 and Ding's run to the final in 2016 - there is actually a lot to be said for the momentum built from a solid qualifying run - it is what makes so exciting I guess!

From a commercial point of view could WST / BBC / The Crucible etc risk having the likes of Ronnie / Judd etc start out at 128 in ponds forge, have an off day and get knocked out? Unlikely as it may be but a complete disaster if they weren't taking their place in the Crucible - viewing figures for one would be taking a hit I would imagine!

The whole meddling the world championship has become quite tedious over the last number of years - venue change, format change etc The World Championship is one of the most famous sporting events worldwide - 'if it's not broke don't fix it'

Joe_ Public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616183#Comment_119616183

Is it fair? Well, it's probably not being strictly honest, but you're spot on when it comes to commercial realities which are impossible to get away from. Also the tradition and widespread love of all the crucible represents should only be tinkered with extreme caution imo.

I guess the tour structure has, at end of the day, to be a balance between concessions to top players and giving those lower down better opportunities, whether through flat draws or open draws like at British Open. Which is why the change to UK format was a very poor decision i think, too much of a sop to top players. The irony here is that came the season after Shaun got KO'd in R1 and kicked up a fuss about it. Not saying there's any connection there, of course, just an interesting coincidence and a reminder of the broadcasters' influence in shaping formats.

One thing we're definitely learning at the moment is how dependent the tour is on Chinese investment. With the uk economic climate looking a bit grim for the foreseeable, i can see them pushing hard to get the Saudis back and for other middle east markets too.

ArmaniJeanss

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616183#Comment_119616183

Why Top 16 though?

Why not let the Top 4 go through to the quarter-finals with everyone else fighting for the remaining 4 places. Your same sporting arguments would apply - earned the right, rewarding consistent form, nothing to stop qualifiers climbing the ranks etc. Top 16 is just an arbitrary number, which has become accepted through tradition. Whether it's actually correct or not seems at least worthy of regular debate.

Note : Just to clarify I'm not actually suggesting Top4 as the cut-off, just using it as example to question the merits of the Top 16 cut-off.

Spiderpig92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119616437#Comment_119616437

Fair points absolutely - I think the number of seeds at the Worlds has generally been decided by the number of players in the draw at the Crucible which again seems dependent on the number of professionals at the time - eg 1977 - 16 Players in the final stages - 8 Seeds. 1980 & 1981 are strange - 24 Players - 16 Seeds - the current format has been in place since 1982. I guess 32 Players / 16 Seeds is ideal from a draw point of view - the next logical step is 64 players through to final stages and 32 seeded - don't see that ever happening in the crucible era though...

Joe_ Public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119617188#Comment_119617188

From memory i think the top 8 were seeded into R2 in 81 and 82 was first year they had qualifiers and full complement of 32 players at the crucible.

Genghis

Not a fan of the 128 "flat draw" myself - for any tournament. Difficult for a low-ranked tour player to break-through if by luck of the draw they face someone way up the ranks - especially in the first round (go home with nothing). Better if low ranked players had a fair chance of winning a match or two against each other, a fair chance of gaining some prize money, and maybe build up to challenging higher ranks in later rounds.

Joe_ Public

I think the current structure definitely has lots of flaws, but truth is there'll always be pros and cons to any set up. If you were to seed the top 32 into last 32 of every tournament, say, you're virtually guaranteeing them 30-40,000 ranking points a season, including the proviso of having to win a round to earn points. Plus, they get to avoid qualifiers, less travel and come in fresh. It'd be a very big advantage to have, imo, on top of privileges they already have. Maybe a R1 bye could be a workable compromise.

But I definitely agree with the point that more has to be done for lower ranked players. I see they're now being guaranteed minimum earnings of 20K per season on a trial basis, which is a positive development, but it doesn't help in terms of rankings. I think it would help if there were more tournaments where not so many top players entered and lower down guys had a real chance, but reality is they are almost always chasing points, either seeding cut offs or bonuses, so that doesn't really happen to any great extent. There's a limited pot and sponsors, understandably, want the best players turning up so I think that's a problem and the gap between top and bottom will be very slow to narrow, if at all. If you are a bit unlucky, get a few tough draws and lose a bit of confidence, there are large parts of the season where you hardly get any game time at all and I'm not sure that does the tour any good as a whole.

Joe_ Public

Speaking of lower ranked players, i think this offers a rare and very good insight into the struggles some of these guys go through. IIRC, when Ronnie was on one of his rants about no young talent that time, Louis Heathcote was one of those he singled out as an exception and predicted great things! Not fulfilled as of yet, anyway! He makes a good point about not having kids or a mortgage, got to be a very tough grind for those that do!

https://metro.co.uk/2022/09/15/louis-heathcote-hails-brilliant-guaranteed-income-move-after-hitting-rock-bottom-17384812/

Brian?

Leave the Worlds and Masters alone. UK needs to go back or the old format. It’s just like another Home Nation tournament now.

Do anything you want to the rest of the tour and I won’t care.

Joe_ Public

Second event of Q Tour begins in Brighton today and seems a shame that, apart from Leo Fernandez, there's no irish representation in it, a few from the north alright. I suppose it's hardly worth it for the likes of Ross Bulman to travel for these events when you have over 200 players chasing a mere 2 tour cards at the end of it. Ridiculous set up imo, should be minimum of 4, if not double that.

Spiderpig92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119626043#Comment_119626043

It certainly is a minefield that one - I think if you take the cost of entering out of the equation Q School is actually a better chance of Qualification than this. Not sure how old Ross is - probably on the U21 bubble - if he can still compete in the IBSF/EBSAs U21s they would be the ones to focus on...

Joe_ Public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119626517#Comment_119626517

Oh theres no question about it. Q School would have a few more entrants but on the numbers alone, you have roughly a 5-6% chance of success compared to around 1.5% for Q Tour, so unless you're based in england, makes sense to keep powder dry and put everything into q school.

Ross just turned 21 so he'll have 2 more goes at junior level, wsf champs in Australia in January and then Europeans later on in Malta so i guess they'll be his primary targets. He was actually a single frame away from getting his card at 2019 q school and beat Barry Hawkins as a tour top up next season so we know he can definitely do it. Think he's playing in the first Irish amateur tournament this weekend so am interested to see how far he goes in that.

Spiderpig92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119626842#Comment_119626842

Yes - I remember that Q School well - I think he got to the last or penultimate round in the first event and was in contention on the frames won count all the way to the last match of event 3 if I remember correctly.

Hard to see past Brendan or Rodney for the Irish event at the weekend.

Joe_ Public

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119626899#Comment_119626899

The way Ross performed that time and on his results as a tour top up, i honestly thought he'd have made the breakthrough by now, but it's tough and takes a lot of patience and perseverance. Brendan and rodney definitely the ones to beat alright, no sign of Davey Morris i see, not sure if it's work commitments or something, but seems to be taking a sabbatical from the game, or competition at least. Hopefully, it's not permanent, still one of the best we've got.

ArmaniJeanss

There's live mixed doubles on over the weekend on ITV (afternoons) and ITV4 (evenings). Also on International Eurosport (not British Eurosport)

Teams are Ronnie/Rheanne, Judd/Ng, Selby/Rebecca Keane, Robbo/Nutcharut.

Full round-robin followed by a final, each match in the round-robin is 4 frames. Seems to be alternate visit rather than the arguably more fun if messy alternate shot.

Joe_ Public

Might be we've been starved of snooker these past few weeks, but enjoying watching this. Think there's a place for it anyway and would be good if they mixed up the format a bit. Ronnie was obviously motivated and desperate to do well judging by the amount of time he was deliberating over shots, but maybe he'd have been better just playing his own natural game? Selby and Kenna are the lowest ranked male and female players, but have looked the stesdiest team so far.

Brian?

I’m happy for the break from snooker. It’s too much when it gets going.

Joe_ Public

£30K is a nice little earner for a couple of days work, lot of pros be looking on enviously at that, some of em won't even make that in a year. Rebecca Kenna gets £20K, huge payday for her but wouldn't begrudge it at all as she's had a pretty tough road over the years. Steep learning curve when you're at the table knowing Robbo is next up and ready to pounce on any mistake you make!

Genghis

I enjoyed the mixed doubles, hope it becomes a fixture. I imagine the experience and exposure will only bring on the 4 ladies.

It felt tense throughout, maybe because the format inhibits any one player hitting their stride, maybe because of the hazard of letting your side down.

Was impressed with Mink and Kenna, honestly had not really seen them play before.

Also liked the gear.

Spiderpig92

Thought the doubles was excellent - format perfect - finalists in doubt up until the 24th and last frame of the group stages. One thing that was noticeable was the poor crowds all weekend though, didn't look great on the TV.

I have been a big advocate of bringing events back to Goffs - WST have passed on the Tour Championship and Shootout - ideal for the one table environment, why not the Doubles next year and give it a proper home? They would sell out every session given the names involved. I know maybe sponsorship is an issue in Ireland but noticed Paddy Power getting involved with the 900 series so maybe there is an opportunity there?