Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed. **Threadbans in OP**

tomhammer..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121739980#Comment_121739980

?

Agree with first paragraph

I believe it was clear to them and still is that they had the right man

For example that's been printed currently re cold case review indicates they are solely focussed on bailey

Also in't it known that gardai stated on more than one occasion that they got the right man

I believe that stated this to the family

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740074#Comment_121740074

You have alleged numerous times it was allowed go to the dump without a check.

Evidence?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121739941#Comment_121739941

But, as you already know, corrupt AGS did attempt to fabricate evidence. They also destroyed important evidence. They also effectively told everyone in the area that he was their man. The case against Bailey has been prejudiced (for whatever reason) from the early days.

Given that those corrupt gardai were involved in building a case against Bailey, why then do you still continue to believe that bailey is a prime suspect and, I believe, you stated that you believe he is the murderer? Given that you now do not know what evidence has been tainted by those corrupt gardai, how can you state with confidence that Bailey should be prime suspect? You also don't know what was originally evidence is now missing and we are completely unaware of. You also don't know the specific reasons for the corrupt gardai acting the way they did.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740071#Comment_121740071

But you accept she did nothing that indicates anything suspicious or that she should be a suspect?

Glad we cleared that one up.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740102#Comment_121740102

Look at the timings on the day.

In the time allotted before Shirley went on to the dump there was simply no way a car full of rubbish could have been properly checked for evidence.

Do you think the Guards stopped everything else they were doing to check all the rubbish in Shirley's car? How long would that take?

There was no proper check.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740102#Comment_121740102

So how thoroughly was it examined? Was it forensically checked (by local gardai in the laneway without the specific forensic equipment) for hairs or fibres?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740074#Comment_121740074

It's called securing the crime scene and if a garda back then was unaware of it then they shouldn't have been there!

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740078#Comment_121740078

You are missing the point - the gardai allowed a car to drive through the crime scene instead of staying in position. They then allowed a person (who should have been a suspect) drive off to the dump with rubbish. Evidence could have been destroyed or removed. The fact the car and rubbish were not forensically examined was negligent. A defence team would argue this point that there was potentially evidence destroyed and correct procedure was not adhered to.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121739980#Comment_121739980

How then could it clear to them he was the murderer.

Because the case against their other original suspects was even weaker.

And while their legal case may have been weak they probably had a gut feeling that it was him.

Many a weak case has been sent to the DPP.

Based on what I have seen, heard and read about this case I too have a gut feeling it was him, and I'm a million miles removed from it.

These guys were right there.

tomhammer..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740108#Comment_121740108

I've said many times that Bailey is only the likely killer

I'm not sure what point you're making with the rest

Are you disagreeing or not with my contention that it would be unsurprising if a corrupt AGS fabricated eyewitness testimony to secure confession and conviction

I believe it has been established for example that AGS attempted to alter the height of the eyewitness suspect to make him taller ?

Bailey is clearly prime suspect that is not in doubt

Gussie Scrotch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740116#Comment_121740116

No. I didn't say that. Please dont try to put words in my mouth.

I do not accept that the removal of a vehicle and its contents from a live crime scene was normal behaviour.

That Shirley saw that as a priority at the time is curious.

That she was allowed to do so is also curious.

The vehicle and its contents should have been seized and taken to a proper facility for forensic analysis.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740092#Comment_121740092

Given that we can safely assume that, to our knowledge, there has no new evidence of significant value (incriminating Bailey) introduced since the DPP's report, why then are the Cold Case team still focusing on him?

Also, given the many failures within this case by AGS including leaking case info, why are the Cold Case team talking to the media?

As for AGS saying they got the "right man", they possibly did. But there is nothing solid (even if you join up all the bits) against Bailey. It sounds like them having the "right man" is simply AGS are working off a gut feeling. Possibly in the same way that a decade earlier, they got the "right woman" in Joanne Hayes.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740179#Comment_121740179

So maybe they needed to expand their list of suspects?

Gut feelings are a recipe for miscarriage of justice when it is based on weak, flimsy evidence (something the Guards have acknowledged of the case).

All the innocent people in jail for miscarriages of justice were put there by guys who were right there too.

Gut feelings for identifying a suspect is one thing, but it should not form the basis for an prosecution, or direct the focus of an investigation to the extent it did.

When combined with a high profile murder case, it can lead to scapegoating.

tomhammer..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740222#Comment_121740222

First para ? What are you saying?

We don't know what the cold case have to our knowledge or otherwise so we can't assume that

2nd paragraph mostly agree

No DNA or valid eyewitness

Gut feeling + various other bits

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740179#Comment_121740179

Hypothetically speaking, given all the evidence against Bailey that has convinced your gut, if (and it is hypothetical) the garda checked Shirley's car thoroughly and found Alfie's blood stained jumper, would you still think it was Bailey and if not, why not (given the strength of the evidence we currently have)?

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740244#Comment_121740244

If there was any new firm evidence pointing towards his guilt, they would have used it against Bailey. If it is just more circumstantial evidence along the lines of what they have already then it's really of no use. If they say they have the right man then this needs to be based on firm evidence!

tomhammer..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740279#Comment_121740279

The review isn't completed afaik

You said "evidence " to which I replied that we don't know

Your new point "firm evidence " I don't know either but it's obviously less likely

The indications from the media was that the case was being tightened. Other than that I'm not aware of any info that we can draw assumptions feom

tomhammer..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121734638#Comment_121734638

They guy that said he followed attractive women?

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740124#Comment_121740124

You have absolutely no way of knowing what was checked, unless the check was documented. What time did she go to the dump?

Again, the known murder weapons remained at the scene. A bottle of wine was discarded which may or may not be relevant.

Its entirely possible their car was locked overnight and if the murder happened in the morning, its unlikely they wouldn't have noticed someone opening their car door. Likewise its unlikely they wouldn't have noticed bloody handprints on the car doors.

In other words you are alleging without a shred of evidence to back it up, the very thing you've been complaining about ad nauseum on here.

To summarize there is no evidence the neighbours had anything to do with this murder.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740222#Comment_121740222

I believe the suspect in the Kerry babies case denied everything from day one and rightly so. They certainly didn't go around making jokes about it, and claiming to have done it. Or were found to have fabricated a fake alibi which came from their own mouth! Or lied about various other aspects of their statements such as having a premonition but then denying they had a premonition later when it didn't suit. Or did the suspect in the Kerry babies case have a record of almost killing a baby in the months previous.

tomhammer..

Don't think the cold case review are leaking info so how can we assume anything

We only have indications afail that they are solely focussed on bailey

tomhammer..

Is there any of baileys articles from the early days where he was pointing the finger at the French?

Might be an interesting read

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740386#Comment_121740386

You have absolutely no way of knowing what was checked. But as I said, given the timings on the day, the notion that a a car full of rubbish could have been properly checked doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

The Guards at the time had no notion what the murder weapons were.

Why would the hands have to be bloody? Your argument makes no sense. They didn't hear a violent murder next door. I've no way of knowing what they would or wouldn't have noticed or why a handprint would have to be bloody. Just because there was a bloody handprint on the door doesn't imply what you think - they could have cleaned it off and dumped whatever they cleaned it with. Alfie claims not to have gone without 20 yards of the body, yet his action suggest otherwise.

It's entirely possible there was evidence in those rubbish bags. It doesn't mean Shirley put it there. Why do you think police forces check bins in the vicinity of a murder?

Yes, see how easy it is to create suspicion of circumstantial possibly innocent behaviour? If you apply the same standard to Shirley's actions as the prism through which Bailey's are viewed, her actions are highly suspicious.

To summarize, there is no evidence Bailey had anything to do with the murder either, if by evidence you mean any real evidence.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740415#Comment_121740415

No other suspect has come even remotely close to Bailey as a possibility.

There may be a hidden unknown suspect out there of course, but of mentioned suspects, no-one comes close. All were discounted by the gardai for one reason or another such as having a water-tight alibi, something Bailey could never claim.

tobefrank321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740467#Comment_121740467

Ah right so Alfie didn't go near the body and this is somehow suspicious.

And if he went near the body you'd say he was trying to contaminate the scene as an excuse.

What utter nonsense. Once again there is nothing suspicious in his or his wife's actions that day. They acted very logically under the circumstances and Alfie has to be commended for not trying to contaminate the scene. Shirley can't be held responsible either as she likely was in shock and wasn't thinking straight.

tomhammer..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740476#Comment_121740476

Everything we know points to him but sadly no proof as of yet

French connection, alfi , burglar , random stranger , bantry garda all much less likely

It's human nature in some to look for a different explanation rather than the obvious, the prime suspect.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740484#Comment_121740484

It would have been innocent enough for someone to get closer to the body to try to determine if they are alive, needing medical treatment etc. Didn't Alfie mention something about a possible hit and run? 20 yards is some distance.

Everything is suspicious to the suspicious eye.

I've read people saying that Bailey turning up at the scene was suspicious. And it could just as easily be argued had Bailey as a journalist in the area NOT turned up it could be viewed as suspicious.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740186#Comment_121740186

I believe it has been established for example that AGS attempted to alter the height of the eyewitness suspect to make him taller ?

That has actually only ever came from Marie Farrell.

She claims that the Gardai suggested to her that he be tailer.

It's never been established only in the mind of Marie Farrell.

Fr Tod Umptious

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740491#Comment_121740491

French connection, alfi , burglar , random stranger , bantry garda all much less likely

The Bantry Guarda is brought to you by the late Ian Bailey.

He got a letter with a Christmas card that said it was a Bantry Guarda.

tomhammer..

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121740545#Comment_121740545

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=HFl77eI3KQ4

I'll leave it here again