Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed. **Threadbans in OP**

flanna01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120231405#Comment_120231405

Like most people in the spotlight, Bailey will have his army of supporters.

When sober, he can be quite engaging to listen to.. Even when living in the back of beyond, he was able to track down the movements and reasons for Maria Farrells sudden return to west Cork.

He may well be obnoxious, but he also an intelligent man. I am sure he has an array of close trusted friends.

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120233369#Comment_120233369

When did Marie return to West Cork?

flanna01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236708#Comment_120236708

After she de-frauded the welfare system in the UK

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120236783#Comment_120236783

She didn't return to West Cork from the UK.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120233369#Comment_120233369

I am just negatively amazed regarding the indifference to the case especially by all authorities involved.

1) Corrupt Guards are carrying on as normal with total impunity

2) A man's life is ruined, he can't travel, can't get decent work

3) A killer goes free and is maybe still alive

And nothing happens, a few media reports for the media to make money on, a movie director making money on it, a cold case review with no new results, a wrongful French court ruling which should have been overturned by the EU supreme court.

chooseusername

I suppose he's got to keep himself in the limelight, he's got a podcast coming up to promote;

https://www.corkbeo.ie/news/local-news/bailey-claims-no-longer-suspect-26319838

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120293152#Comment_120293152

He complains about publicity. Seems he only wants the positive type

chooseusername

Now a Uk pathologist believes Sophie may have been strangled and was dead before being battered, according to Sheridan.

Also sticking with the French connection it appears;

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/jim-sheridan-hands-new-information-29392091

flanna01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120330209#Comment_120330209

Without stating the obvious...

Does it really take Jim Sheridan to provide supporting paperwork that suggests Sophie was choked to death..? Shouldn't that have been the role of the Coroner?

Can't really believe that after nearly thirty years, they may have missed that one small detail??

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120330908#Comment_120330908

You would think that's obvious to a pathologist

The story keeps giving and people making money and notoriety off it

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120331104#Comment_120331104

It's unlikely a pathologist would miss asphyxiation as a cause of death. Harbison was under pressure, late to the scene, press all over the place but he'd hardly just assume she died from the obvious battering she took. Also never mentioned by the French team after the exhumation. So Jim may be just looking for drama for his new film.

MonkieSocks

Don't believe this latest report about strangulation.

Her hands were broken in a position in a way where she would have been trying to defending herself.

Did the strangler drag the body through the briers to make the marks on her hands and legs

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120332606#Comment_120332606

"Don't believe this latest report about strangulation."

Nor do I for what it's worth, but this guy is a pathologist, and maybe better equipped than a pathologist 25 years ago.

MonkieSocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120332606#Comment_120332606

Plus the blood stain on the back door.

The attack occured in two different places

flanna01

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120332804#Comment_120332804

Doubtful the attack occurred in two different places, more like the killer returned to pull the door to before leaving the scene.

BattleCorp

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120332795#Comment_120332795

He might be better equipped but all he had to go on were photos and notes. I think I'd trust someone examining the body more than someone reviewing files.

Eitherways, it makes no difference if the pathologist is right. If Sophie was strangled first, whoever strangled her bashed in her head so they are still the murderer.

Gussie Scrotch

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120337998#Comment_120337998

Yes, I agree, its unlikely that the state pathologist would have misssed that. Unlikely but possible.

If it was the case though, it raises an interesting point. Why, after strangling Sophie to death, would the murderer than proceed to inflict 50+ wounds with a rock/block?

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339289#Comment_120339289

Because it didn't happen

Xander10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339345#Comment_120339345

And even if it did, it brings the case no nearer to being solved

chooseusername

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120339369#Comment_120339369

The thorax was fractured but Harbison said there was a boot mark on her neck, which would be the most likely cause of the fractured thorax.

It would be difficult to strangle someone with bare hands and leave no trace.

Edited;

I don't know if Harbison's report mentions the fractured thorax, but the French pathologist did in their report after the exhumation.

Esel

Thorax means chest.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120342619#Comment_120342619

not quite. Bit more body parts included. Neck to the waist.

Edit: above the waist. From the diaphragm and above.

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120332606#Comment_120332606

It would at least be an explanation as to why Shirley and Alfie didn't hear anything that night, - that is if they were honest in their statements or didn't do it themselves.

It's also noteworthy that she apparently brought more suitcases than expected for a short stay. I didn't know that either.

I've actually read it here:

https://www.irishmirror.ie/news/irish-news/crime/jim-sheridan-hands-new-information-29392091

saabsaab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120349894#Comment_120349894

I don't think the evidence fits a killing elsewhere. Still it would have been worth examining all nearby buildings wheather occupied or not.

MonkieSocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120349894#Comment_120349894

It's also noteworthy that she apparently brought more suitcases than expected for a short stay. I didn't know that either.

Doesn't imply much, maybe she was going a to buy some extra Christmas presents but never got around to it.

She had already told her house keeper she would be going home earlier than she first intended.

Sunday December 22nd 1996

At 21:00 Sophie calls Josephine Hellen but she is out.

By 21:20 neighbour Shirly Foster is closing her curtains and sees the outside light on Sophie's cottage is on.

By 22:00 Josephine calls Sophie back.

In this call Sophie says that she will return to France on 24th December, so on Christmas Eve, to link up with her husband.

They arrange for Josephine to come round to the cottage the next day, around noon

Monday December 23rd 1996

08:20 Shirley Foster wakes up, lights fires and starts preparing breakfast.This is around sunrise.

It is Shirley who finds Sophie's battered body around 10:00, at the entrance to the laneway leading to her holiday home.

Shirley Foster at that time drives in her car, from her neighbouring house to the main road to take the rubbish to the dump.

She notices Sophie's car parked outside, as it normally would be.

But when Shirley drives down the lane towards the large gate, she sees that it is open.

The gate is normally closed.

There is a body wearing nightclothes and brown boots lying at the side of the road, covered in blood.

Some of the clothes are caught in the barbed wire fence and pulled tight.

Shirley is horrified and sounds the car horn. She runs in a panic back to the home she shares with Alfie Lyons.

Alfie runs down and thinks it might be Sophie.

He runs to Sophie's house and knocks on the door. No answer.

Alfie then calls the police. At 10:15 local police in a patrol car receive the report of a body and drive to the scene.

They arrive there at 10:38 and close the area off for investigation.

At 11:00 doctor Larry O'Connor arrives and pronounces Sophie dead.

He cannot determine the time of death

At 11:30 Father Cashman arrives at the scene to administer the last rites.

He leaves at noon and arrives back home at 12:15.

Eddie Cassidy of the Irish Examiner calls Father Cashman to request directions to the scene.

Father Cashman declines.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

IMO the gate is already open when Shirley finds the body indicates that the killer drove opened the gate and directly drove to Sophies House (leaving the gate in the open position)

Sophie had been already up, had breakfast and was reading a book at the table

( I think she was already dressed as she was found boots on ,because of cold floor )

The killer knocked on the back door ( which Sophie always kept locked and never used, she always used the front door for entry and exit)

The killer knocks on the back door again, he didn't know that Sophie never used that particular door but knew enough enough that she may be well at home

Sophie, now very agitated unlocks the front door ( leaving it on the latch with the keys inserted) and go's around to the back door to confront the person who is knocking.

An argument ensues and the killer hits her in the face causing her to bleed and fall.

She can feel she bleeding, put her hand on the wound and gets blood on it.

As she is getting up her hand brushes of the back door leaving the bloodstain.( note the bloodstain on the backdoor is heavier at the bottom and lighter at the top)

The attacker starts kicking her as she tries to recover

Sophie panics and runs down the driveway, the attacker is standing between her and Shirley's house, so she can't go that way

And the attackers car is possibly blocking her from going around to the front door which she had exited through.

As Sophie is running the attacker jumps into his car drives down and stops at just outside the gate as Sophie is there.

She tries to flee left through the briars as his car is in front of her, he garbs her house coat and drags her on to the path and starts to beat her withe lighter rock found eat the scene.

Sophie try's get get up using the rails of the gate but again he beats her the rock, Eventually she is prone on the ground.

The attacker she that she is still breathing and he needs to finish her off as he knows she had recognised him.

He finishes her off with the heavier block, hitting her a few more times to make sure she was dead.

He gets into his car and is gone before anyone realises whats happened, go's somewhere private and cleans up and gets rid of anything he can think of that may have bloodstains on it

He may have gloves so when the first blow was struck he may not leave any trace's on him.

Throwing the lighter brick at her would probably a small splatter of blood on him as would throwing the larger brick ashe was standing away from her when he dropped her in the prone position.

He may not have been dripping in blood as some have suggested.

This is all supposition on my behalf, no one this thread has any access to the Gardaí files.

Jim Sheridan certainly doesn't

tinytobe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120350868#Comment_120350868

Maybe they did. But I suppose the Guards only knocked at the door, looked if there were any visible signs of occupation, and relied on the statement by Alfie and Shirley that the empty house owned by the Richardson's was empty. I suppose if somebody wanted to hide, or pick a lock, stay there without getting noticed would have been possible. However I think the killer would have left the area quickly after the murder. Too much risk getting discovered, plus he would have had a good 3 hour head start to get away.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120350911#Comment_120350911

An interesting read. I would also be inclined to think Sophie was killed in the early hours of the morning rather than at night. However, there is no conclusive evidence known to me which would support either. I think forensics mentioned that she most likely consumed food typical for breakfast or something like that? As to your description of the murder it doesn't sound to be something quiet you're describing. This always gives the surprise why Shirley and Alfie didn't hear anything at all, - that is unless they did the killing themselves or she was at first really strangled and then bludgeoned. But even if she was running for her life and chased, she would hardly have been quiet. And then, did she really run? If seeking help, I suppose she would rather have run to Shirley and Alfie than rather the gates, no matter if she liked the neighbours or not?

As to the suitcases, pls remember that airlines were more liberal back then on what you could take either on board or as checked luggage. It was the pre-no-frills-internet-booking era. And after all, she wanted to be back with the family for Christmas, maybe the suitcases were to be left at the house for a future trip?

MonkieSocks

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120350911#Comment_120350911

There are two routes Sophie could have used to get to the bottom of the lane, where her body was discovered.

The first, down the lane way,

The second, down through the field

The second is a distinct posability as the slated brick used to attack her is similiar to the brickwork on the wall outside her front door

saabsaab

Just saw that there is a breakthrough on the 'Kerry Babies' case in 1984. Two arrested. I'd say that DNA matchiing was a key in narrowing down the suspects. Makes you wonder if something similar could happen in Sophie's case.

Xander10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120393814#Comment_120393814

That case is a reminder of how Gardai acted on an assumption with no actual evidence to make someone accountable for something they had no actual evidence of involvement in.

DNA may be harder to find and match in the Sophia case, but it's the only slim possible hope of solving this case.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120394960#Comment_120394960

Unless Jules talks if she knows something

Can't see how any DNA would be admissible