Dog snapped at daughters friend.

jayo76

UNE 29, 2022

We have the most wonderful, loving and playful 3 year old little Bichon/ Poodle mix. He loves people and visitors to the house usually.

Last week our 13 year old daughter had a friend around to visit her. He seemed to take an instant dislike to the friend, growling at her and refusing to go near her as he normally would with visitors. The friend loves dogs and went to pet him, he growled again and snapped without making any contact. This is the first and only time he has done this. We were shocked. Should we be worried?

By the time she was leaving, everything had calmed and she was feeding the dog treats.

Nody

Let's summarize:

Dog shows a clear "Stay the heck away from me" signal

Child ignores it and approaches

Dog growls and snaps in the air

Sorry, but what exactly are you concerned about beyond your own inability to act when the dog tells you it does not want to be approached by said person? The dog acts because clearly you're not; you want to avoid the situation again then actually don't ignore what the dog is trying to tell you. Sorry if that sounds harsh but that's the summary of what happened; if anything you should be happy it only snapped in the air because it could have been worse and next time don't let the person approach when your dog clearly does not want it.

emmaro

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119271859#Comment_119271859

Literally this.

Your dog warned you that he was not comfortable with your daughters friend and this should have been respected.

jayo76

Thank you very much to both people for replier. Yes we do need just to act on that the dog told us he wasn't comfortable and to respect that.

cezanne

Poodles are very intelligent and as a pet minder i see they are very adamant about what they like & dont like, the bichon is the same. They all look very cuddly but they do snap when annoyed. I am reading about a poor man whose JRT nipped a woman and they are trying to have him killed. Tragic . There is a petition for him to be saved on change .org

<snip>

In this case the child should have been reprimanded for teasing the dog and that is what you should say to the parents let them know their kid is a little demon who teases dogs. Do not blame the dog kids are the biggest b**tards i have watched them with dogs on CCTV and they really deserve every bite they get. Sorry but its true.

Cherry Blossom

cezanne, links to petitions are not permitted here, please don’t post them in this forum.

Thanks.

cezanne

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119295498#Comment_119295498

sorry i was just so incensed to see this woman insisting a small jack russell is being killed and taken from an 80 year old man living in a isolated area.

MrMusician18

I'd be very wary of this dog going forward. It is not to be trusted.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058252414/dog-snapped-at-daughters-friend

To be honest you should be worried. I would expect the friend had the smell of dogs off her and thats what the problem was.

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291862#Comment_119291862

I can’t believe some of the answers. A child got snapped at by a dog the dog should be reprimanded, not the child. Our lab mongeral snapped at me when I was 8 or 9 in front of my father. The dog was left in no doubt, by scolding and withdrawn treats who exactly was the higher in the family order. Child is than dog

Nonsense.

Nody's response No 2 was the perfect reply.

cj maxx

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119360427#Comment_119360427

No imo you’re talking the nonsense. While I’ve always been surrounded with several dogs at any one time, on a farm , the hierarchy is always, always the family 1st and down to the dog

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2015/08/150827083542.htm#:~:text=Summary%3A,substantiated%20by%20means%20of%20measurements.

Still nonsense.

The dog growled at someone who is a total stranger to them - not a family member. It gave a very clear warning that it was unhappy at being approached by this stranger, which was ignored by the humans.

Whatever happened after that, was completely on the humans involved, not the dog.

Xander10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362194#Comment_119362194

The way you say "humans"😀 like some sort of bad species.

At the end of the day, we are talking about a 13 year old child child, just trying to be friendly with a dog.

zedhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362220#Comment_119362220

Are you serious? Its up to adults not to put their children in a position where it could be bitten by a dog. Children should be taught not to approach strange dogs without owners permission and to look out for signs of discomfort. If they arent old enough to understand this then they probably shouldnt be physically interacting with a dog without an adult right there who can.

All dogs are capable of being pushed to the edge, and by punishing growls, snarls and air snaps you are taking away their warning/discomfort signs so there is a chance next time they will go straight to biting. And you'll have people say " but there was no warning signs".....yeh you punished the warning signs!!

I'm so sick of random children approaching my dog in the street and I look like the a**hole when I tell them to stay away. He's never bitten but he will growl or snap at strange people if they invade his space and make him feel cornered. Advocate for your dog, keep it safe and teach children that dogs are not toys and deserve a bit of space and respect!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362218#Comment_119362218

Sometimes it needs to be spelled out that clearly!

The dog didn't see a "child trying to be friendly". The dog felt threatened at being approached by a complete stranger. It gave two appropriate warning signs - refusing to approach and growls.

What should have happened then, was the owners should have immediately removed the dog to another space for it's comfort, and away from their visitor.

They were very lucky this didn't end a lot worse, but at least the dog's owner has been open enough to see that not doing so was an error on their part.

I also agree that children need to be taught some basics - like if a dog growls at them it means "leave me alone!!" and they need to back off, not "keep trying".

boardlady

Hi OP,

I'm sorry you found yourself in this situation but well done on seeking advice. I have to also agree with a lot of the posters here. It can be tough to see your normally loving pet get cross, but unfortunately, we are all capable of being pushed! For the future, you now know your dog's cues and you can be aware and watching when people other than family members are around her. If she is unhappy with the situation, you can remove her - for both her own comfort and to avoid a bite situation. I also agree that the child should not have pushed the situation with a dog who clearly did not feel comfortable around her .. but as she was not your child, I can see how you were unsure how to act. Best of luck to you!

FlubberJones

Dogs know a bad person when they see one... your daughters friend should not be allowed in the house again.....

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362194#Comment_119362194

Complete nonsense there Loueze from you.

“Humans” always come first, especially children. Stranger or not it is not acceptable for a dog to snap at a child. If he does it once he’ll do it again, and the next time it could be a much younger child and maybe there won’t be an adult there to take the child out of the equation. What happens then? I’ll tell you what happens, you read another story in the papers about a child being maimed by a dog.

The dog should be severely reprimanded for what he done. He should be kept away from children any more unless fully supervised and if he ever snapped again at anyone then there is only one other option.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119291862#Comment_119291862

There is no mention of the child 'taunting' the dog. The OP mentions the child loves dogs and just went to pet the dog. No way was this the childs fault.

zedhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362866#Comment_119362866

No child should be around a dog unsupervised. Ever!

And again by reprimanding these warning signs you are taking away the dogs way to communicate and this is why you hear of dogs biting/attacking "out of the blue" with no prior warning. There is a ladder of escalation of subtle stress signals dogs show when they are uncomfortable. As a dog owner you should be familiar with these. Lip licking, yawning, whale eye, ears pinned back, fixed stare, tense body.....all of these come before growls, snarls and snaps and if a dog is uncomfortable then ensure that all people, especially children give it space.

zedhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362895#Comment_119362895

Not the childs fault, the supervising adults fault for failing to pay attention to the dogs discomfort. Why was the child not told to give the dog space? Why was the child allowed to approach the dog and try to pet it?

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363030#Comment_119363030

That’s all well and good if there’s an adult there. But what happens when the dog has got out of his owners garden unknown to the owner? Or when the adult turns their back on the dog for a moment or 2 when there’s young children around that the dog is unfamiliar with?

Im sorry but like has been said here previously; people, and especially children, come before animals. If you’ve too much of a sentimental attachment to your pet to take the required steps needed when the pet steps out of line then you’re not mature enough to own a pet in the first place.

Bannasidhe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362895#Comment_119362895

And the dog warned the 13 year old to keep away.

The 13 year old ignored the dog.

'Child' makes it sound like a toddler.

This was a teenager. A teenager who should know better.

OP - I'd ask daughter not to bring this friend home again if it was me.

Bannasidhe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363380#Comment_119363380

Judgemental much?

If a teenager isn't mature enough to leave a dog alone when that dog has made it 100% clear they don't want to be petted, that teenager shouldn't be allowed anywhere near a dog.

See - hyperbole can work both ways.

c.p.w.g.w

Was over a friends recently, one of their dogs wasn't having any of me(growling & barking) so I just took that as stay away...and literally 10 minutes later he came over to me and getting belly rubs...

My mate and his OH was all apologies, which weren't at all required...

When I meet dogs, I give them space and let them come to me...just thought this was common sense, since I was a child

17togo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363424#Comment_119363424

Or maybe instead of curbing your child's social interactions how about the dog is locked away when there's visitors coming over!

This modern generation of dog owners who treat their dogs like they're actually people is ridiculous. They're animals at the end of the day. And because of the pampering they get is probably the reason they think they can do what they want..

Like the above comment, if the animal misbehaves let's just stop our child's friends coming over instead of locking the dog in another room..... Or.... Crazy idea.... Lock the dog outside!

zedhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363380#Comment_119363380

If you cant supervise your dog around children then you've no business having a dog. I would not turn my back on any dog with young children around. My dog, my parents dog, any dog.

People do come before animals. But that doesnt mean that you punish a dogs communication methods. If you are not mature enough to research how to train your dog, protect it and those around you then you are not mature enough to own a pet in the first place. If a dog shows a clear sign of discomfort, listen to it. Teach your children to listen to it. Teach your dog that strangers/children are positive by showing respect and boundaries. Counter condition when they show they may have a negative feeling around some strangers in some situations. And if that all fails then separate your dog from children/strangers in your home. These are the required steps. Not punishing or destroying a dog at the first growl.

Jequ0n

It sounds like you have a great dog, OP. It gave clear warning signs and had to resort to even clearer ones when the initial ones were ignored.

Btw a dog will bite if they want to or see no other option. The snapping was just another warning sign telling the girl to back off.

I agree with other posters that 13 year olds should have the cop on to know how to behave around dogs. Teach your daughter to keep friends away from her dog when he gives such clear signs.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363483#Comment_119363483

You may be responsible enough to ensure 100% supervision of your dog at all times but the majority of dog owners aren’t. And I agree with your statement on the dogs communication methods, you are absolutely correct that people who don’t understand this aren’t mature enough to own a pet. Unfortunately though the majority of dog owners fall into this category so we’re back where we began now.

DBK1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363427#Comment_119363427

Except none of what I said is hyperbole. It’s what’s happening all around the country on a regular basis.

The problem is immature people that have too much of an attachment to their pets and think they are people. They can’t then see when their dog has done wrong until it’s too late.

dublin49

I think posts that seek to blame child /owners miss the point.In the event your dog bites a child it could result in the dog being put down.Thats the fact of the matter.

Now you can feel better by saying he missed or there was mitigation ,or smell of other dogs etc but you have now been given a an example that your dog will snap at kids under certain circumstances and need to consider a muzzle when likely to be around kids again.

anglesorangles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362194#Comment_119362194

Are you for real? So if the dog bit that girls arm off it would have been on the humans? Put every aggresive dog down.

dePeatrick

Anecdotal but I have known two dogs that snapped at people, both went on to biting people and had to be put down.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363424#Comment_119363424

I cannot honestly see how the child/teenager was wrong. She was nice to the dog - nothing in the OPs post suggests she done anything wrong. She went to pet the dog as must people would ( be it a child or adult). The dog when growling should have been put into another room.

Stopping the childs friend ( or anyone the dog doesnt like) from coming to the house is an absolutely ridiculous idea. A teenagers social circle is very important. Family and people should always be first. Anyone who puts the dog before their children really needs to take a long hard look at themselves.

anglesorangles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363045#Comment_119363045

Why was the dog in discomfort? Sounds like he was behaving aggresively for no reason.

Jequ0n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363619#Comment_119363619

From the OP: “He seemed to take an instant dislike to the friend, growling at her and refusing to go near her as he normally would with visitors. The friend loves dogs and went to pet him, he growled again and snapped”

No, it is not normal to pet a dog that is growling at you. It’s a plain stupid thing to do.

Deeec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363648#Comment_119363648

The dog was growling even though the child had done nothing. The dog took a dislike to this child for no apparent reason. Its the dog that was the problem not the child. The dog should have been removed to another room its as simple as that.

zedhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363547#Comment_119363547

But you are berating people who are advocating for reading and responding to a dogs warning signs and trying to teach the OP what do to in future? What do you believe the necessary steps are if a dogs growls or snaps at a person or child?

There seems to be two sides here. The people who are trying to educate those on dogs body language and how to respond. And those who say any dog who is not comfortable being approached/handled and responds with a growl or a snap is automatically an aggressive dog.

TheTruth89

Put the dog out when new people are around it protects them from the dog and more importantly the dog from there stupidity.

And if you get a nip toughen up you ll live no need to get the dog put down people need to learn dogs arent cartoon characters that are ever friendly and instead are animals and can be unpredictable a nip might smarten some people up.

Bannasidhe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363479#Comment_119363479

If a teenager is not mature enough to understand a clear warning why should the OP lock their dog outside? What other clear boundaries will that teenager decide to ignore eh?

As I said - In MY house a teenager who ignores clear warnings would not be welcome until they do learn to heed them. I would not push my dogs because some kid old enough to know better decides they have some right to go at my dogs in their own home. You are free to act differently in you home. You are not free to judge people who disagree with your opinion.

The rest of your post is really nothing more than you having a little rant because you disapprove of other people's decisions. If other people pamper their pets that is none of your business - and really has nothing to do with this thread as you have no idea whether the OP "treats their dog like it's actually people".

Bannasidhe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363483#Comment_119363483

Unless the OP's 13 year old's friend is considerable younger than them It's safe to assume we are not talking about "young children" - we are talking about a teenager.

zedhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363694#Comment_119363694

Yes true, but to be honest if I did not know the teenager I would be supervising them around my dog. Same with adult guests in my home. He is a nervous dog and i tell all guests he is not comfortable being approached and to ignore him unless he approaches them for affection. We are trying to counter condition him at the moment so all guests are to drop treats for him when they arrive and then ignore him. This will teach him guests mean good things and no need for fear/discomfort. If the dog is still showing signs of discomfort i give him a long lasting chew/puzzle toy and send him upstairs out of the way.

If i had a teenager in my home that was stupid enough to try and pet my dog after he growled at them, i would of course be stepping in and telling the teenager to leave the dog alone and then sending the dog to another room.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119362866#Comment_119362866

That whole post just went whoosh over your head.... didn't it. Your problem is, you are expecting a dog to behave with human logic.

The dog does not understand, and will not understand why it is being reprimanded if you punish it for giving a warning signal.

Please teach your children to be cautious approaching any dog that doesn't know them - especially on the dog's territory - which includes their humans.

zedhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363669#Comment_119363669

The dog should have been given space. The teenager became the problem when it chose to try and pet a dog that was growling at them. The owner was the problem because they did not ensure the dogs signs were being read. They should have ensured the dog had space, and yes probably moved the dog to another room but at the very least made sure the teenager did not reach out and try to approach the dog.

Not the dogs fault - wrong done by the owner and the teenager.

SAMTALK

I have 3 dogs and I wont let any children near them, and they are in no way aggressive.

Dogs are unpredictable no matter what .

The suggestion that this teenager should not be allowed in the house again is so over the top that's it not even funny .

It's a dog, plain and simple and why someone cant just put dog in another room or outside for the term of the visit is beyond me.

Dogs are way too pampered

Still stihl waters 3

I saw a bichon do it's best to get away from a child until it was backed into a corner despite the child being told repeatedly to leave the dog alone, the dog had enough and left the marks of its teeth on the skin of the child, the child learnt an important lesson, cried for a few minutes and got a good scolding of her mother for not doing what she was told, the dog is living a happy life, the child got over it and it was all forgotten about 10 minutes later, teach your kids to repect dogs and keep the dogs in another room and everyone is happy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363764#Comment_119363764

You make an interesting point on dogs being pampered. I think over time, dogs try and get a bit more leaway to act and behave how they want- especially concerning food.

The love of the owners over their dog can over-ride good sound discipline.

I admit I’ve had to reverse some bad habits I’ve essentially unconsciously “trained” into my dog to do around giving him some of my food when I’m eating - it’s a huge mistake I’ve made over time and now I have to try undo this by going back to how I trained him a few years ago.

Very few people are perfect dog owners- some of the comments in this thread towards the OP are just down right rude and self righteous whilst others correctly but respectfully pointed out the error of the OPs ways- the messages are the same but the delivery is way off on some posts-it doesn’t encourage people to seek good advice in this forum when the response is so terse.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119363608#Comment_119363608

Yes, actually I am for real, and in my opinion, it would have been the humans' fault, for reasons already given.

If the teenager had been bitten, they and the owners would have had no one to blame but themselves.

piplip87

I have a Spitz who doesn't like new children due to getting beaten by his previous owners child.

Once the dog gave the warning growl they should have been separated, kids are stupid when they see a dog, my fella nipped the neighbors kid as the kid has no manners and has tormented the dog for the past year. The kid ran up behind the dog and started rubbing his back at 10pm at night on a school night. Luckily I had told the kids mother about her little **** behaviour previously so nothing came off it.

beachhead

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119360040#Comment_119360040

Off with it's head.No discussion,just do it.Try to read Nody's post and don't allow yourself a dog.