Dreadful..

Girl Geraldine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119286336#Comment_119286336

As someone said, she is a mother of young children and it would therefore be not appropriate to give her a custodial sentence as it would, in effect, be a punishment on the children for the misdeeds of the mother. That would not be right.

The only circumstance where a mother of young children really ought to be imprisoned is where she is a very high risk of reoffending voilently, or is a danger to the childern.

Community service of some form that is not going to have a negative effect on the children is what is most apprpriate here.

At the end of the day she is a young woman in her 20s too. She had an accident and then made a mistake and just panicked and left.

She isn't really a danger of reoffending like this.

Yes, she should face some consequences for her actions, I fully agree. But her totally innocent children should not be punished indirectly for it.

pleasant Co.

I'm sure many criminals have children, it is utterly bonkers to suggest they should face a lesser sentence so as not to indirectly punish the children of those criminals and downright insulting to infer that the fathers of these children are less suited to raising them than their criminal mother.

Magicbastarder is spot on.

What benefit is a custodial sentence?

Community service and attendance of a treatment facility if she was indeed under the influence. Strict warning that if she misbehaves again she'll be in the slammer.

magicbastarder

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119287571#Comment_119287571

it is utterly bonkers to suggest they should face a lesser sentence so as not to indirectly punish the children of those criminals

not only is it not 'utterly bonkers', it's precisely the point; trying to avoid further harm by balancing potential damaging effects of custodial sentences with the valid reasons supporting those custodial sentences. i would be very, very surprised if i was to learn that judges do not regularly suspend/commute/etc. sentences, based on family situations.

avoiding jailing mothers where possible is not some awful, beyond-the-pale concept; it's pretty much baked into the criminal justice system AFAIK.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/oct/25/jailing-of-most-mothers-for-non-violent-crimes-should-stop-says-report

GalwayMan74

Ah yes,

the non violent crime of ripping someones leg off with your car while pissed and driving off.

secman

So in essence and equality ...no young mother or young father leaving the scene of an accident and potentially leaving a person..probably a mother or father on the side of a road to die should get Custodial sentence.... 🤔 Lunatics running the asylum stuff ....

Might save more lives of cyclists if hard sentences were given for this type of behaviour....

magicbastarder

no young mother or young father leaving the scene of an accident and potentially leaving a person..probably a mother or father on the side of a road to die should get Custodial sentence....

it should be considered, depending on circumstances. i'm not arguing 'there is no justification for a custodial sentence' - clearly there is; but it has to be weighed against the possibility that the father is not around, or there's potentially no supporting extended family. granted, there may be in this case, as it seems it was a family member who persuaded/browbeat the woman into turning herself in.

asdfg87

Was this person not released without charge. i cannot understand any of this.

Its tough on the Gardai and family.

magicbastarder

according to the indo she was arrested on drink driving charges

https://www.independent.ie/irish-news/crime/young-mum-arrested-for-drink-driving-after-garda-left-with-horrific-injuries-41807997.html

Daroxtar

Released without charge doesn't really mean anything. The Gardai and DPP will be gathering the evidence and preparing the case. Charges will be brought against her, just not today

maestroamado

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119287833#Comment_119287833

it may well be the article is the reason she was released.

Paddigol

What I can never understand is the willingness of the authorities - be it legislature or judiciary - to permit laughably short periods of disqualification for people convicted of dangerous driving, drink driving etc. I just can't get my head around it. Seeing the amount of shocking driving every time I cycle, I can only imagine how bad someone must be to end up being charged, prosecuted and convicted... and still end up back behind the wheel a few years later.

Appropriately long periods of disqualification and proper enforcement would go a long way towards indicating that dangerous driving isn't tolerated. You can tell from any interaction with motorists that there's a general attitude of "yeah, but sure, it's tough driving, gimme a break and get over yourself".

You'd swear that driving a car was a fundamental human right. If you've demonstrated a complete disregard for the requirement to have insurance, pay tax, have up to date NCT, let alone drive sober and within the speed limits, the book should be thrown at you. Penalty points are a joke. Kind of like a 'tut tut, don't be a naughty fella now and stop wasting my time'.

Tragic and all as this case is, it's nothing new to cyclists and is only making the headlines because of the click-bait details (severed foot, off duty garda, hit and run). Sporadic high profile custodial sentences won't make a bit of difference and will be forgotten within a few weeks... it's the underlying attitude that needs to be tackled.

magicbastarder

i have a sneaking suspicion many judges don't come down heavily on driving offences because of a 'there but for the grace of god go i' nagging voice in the back of their heads. and the use of 'driving without due care and attention' when it's perfectly clear that the driving in question was wilful and dangerous, and thus should get a 'dangerous driving' charge is infuriating.

De Bhál

Drunk driving, hitting a cyclist and severing his leg and people don't want a custodial sentence just because she has kids...what about the cyclists's children (if he has any)? They are now punished also because of this.

I can't fathom this as someone with young kids myself and a daily cyclist, this would have a massive impact on my children, just the simple fact I wouldn't be able to go out a kick a ball about in the evenings with them etc (at the very least)... The whole thing is sickening.

The scary part of it is, all cyclists in this country know it could just as easily be them as EVERY time you go out on the road either driving, walking or cycling you see ridiculous behaviour.

lock her up, and ban her from driving forever.

downtheroad

Driving ban for life and a long custodial sentence are the least she should face. I'd go further and say she is not fit to be a mother to her children and remove them from her care, if this is the example she will set for them.

Anyone saying that she shouldn't face appropriate punishment by virtue of having kids needs to take a long look at themselves. Would you say that if she gets back behind the wheel of her car after a few drinks and knocks your child off their bike, dismembes them and ruins their life forever?

Kaisr Sose

She is unlikely to get custodial for a non-violent offence. A father on the other hand may face jail. That's how it goes. Fair play to the partner that high tailed her to the station (according to media report anyway).

Leaving the scene makes it harder to get a drink conviction as alcohol can be consumed afterwards breaking the chain of evidence. Perverting the course of justice may be what she will face which could be a harsher outcome for her. She may have been better off staying at the scene as it would only be a Road Traffic conviction that could be brought. (edit: and of course should have done so)

I would have no sympathy with her being a mother. It could have been a mother she hit or killed, and that mothers partner/ family would have to find a way to bring up the kids without their mother. A temporary stint in jail seems less harsh on kids. Justice needs to be fair, but not too consiliatory.

Non-custodial for things like this sends the wrong message. In USA there was a recent case where an Irish guy killed someone while off his head on alcohol and got at least 15yrs (after guilty plea). That won't happen here: community service, suspended sentences and bans that are ignored by many are the norm. No wonder many deem roads unsafe for cycling. It's been a free for all on them for way to long.

magicbastarder

i don't think the US serves as a decent example of sensible sentencing though. they imprison people at a rate unmatched in any other criminal justice system in the world (not counting despotic regimes, though that probably doesn't count as 'criminal justice')

Kaisr Sose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288123#Comment_119288123

True.

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288092#Comment_119288092

To be honest, countless studies and reports over the years have proven the ineffectiveness of incarceration for most criminal offences. However society, as evidenced by a lot of posts in this thread, just wants its pound of flesh so it can forget and move on. There's no real empathy for the victim, otherwise our roads wouldn't be such a clusterf**k every time you venture out on them. You could do a vox pop of drivers and they'd all be up for flogging the driver in this case... and then half of them would carry on their journeys, meeting out close passes, breaking the speed limit, running red lights, skimming hedges on country roads, checking their phones in traffic. But as long as the lynch mob is satisfied, then all is right in the world.

I have a lot more faith in academics and criminologists who have dedicated careers to evaluating crime, its causes and effective deterrents than a clamour on an internet forum.

It's a tragic case, caused by the type of scant regard for cyclists which I see every week, and I won't be shedding any tears if the driver is convicted and jailed. But I won't be joining an internet lynch mob either.

markw7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119287421#Comment_119287421

Maybe shut your hole in future so, the state of ya

Paddigol

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288160#Comment_119288160

You sound like a Golf driver. Yeah? Rack up many close passes today?

markw7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288171#Comment_119288171

What are you waffling on about?

magicbastarder

markw7 - don't post in this thread again.

everyone else, please refrain from responding to him as he won't be allowed reply.

Multipass

Whatever about hitting him, leaving the scene should be very harshly punished with automatic prison time. In all cases, irrespective of children or whatever - she left a man to bleed out on the road without calling emergency services. That should raise the charge from careless driving to attempted murder.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119287778#Comment_119287778

She mowed someone down, while drunk, and left them to die on the side of the road.

Her empathy is obviously non-existent and she should have the kids taken off her until she can prove that she is capable of looking after them. I mean, if you really want to go down the "looking out for the kids" road, then leaving them with someone who has such a callous disregard for human life and who might kill them in a road accident is pretty negligent, no?

Girl Geraldine

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119287729#Comment_119287729

It was an accident, and as a result she panicked and drove off. It was not intentional.

At the end of the day the driving off is the lesser offence in my view. At the point of driving off, the accident had already occured and the damage was already done by then. She just panicked.

Some people cannot seem to grasp the difference between pre-meditated violent crime and an accident, albeit in this instance caused by recklessness.

That girl has to live with the fact of the accident and injury she caused. Nothing positive will come from imprisoning her. Her children could end up with all sorts of separation issues if she is put in jail.

statto25

The irishtimes article this morning mentions that the Gardai are working off a theory and are looking for any witnesses. Is there any confirmed info that the driver was indeed drunk? Leaving the scene of a accident especially one with the injuries obtained is shocking but did she even know that she had hit him?

secman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288288#Comment_119288288

Ah an accident so its okay 👍

Was leaving the scene an accident too

Jesus wept....

GalwayMan74

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119288288#Comment_119288288

It stopped being an accident when she got behind the wheel of a car pissed.

Wheety

Would the people saying there should be no custodial sentence because she has kids feel the same way if he had died? Because the only difference is that he received medical help in time.