How do you feel about Drag Queen Story Time?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119337898#Comment_119337898

They don't need to do it. But they choose to do it. People are questioning that, if reading to children is the objective, why they choose to do it in attire suited for pantomime or adult entertainment.

M three

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338014#Comment_119338014

I've tried to debate it rationally but there is no rational explanation forthcoming at all from those who advocate for men dressing up as women and reading to impressionable children.

All of which would make you suspicious of the motives of those involved. I surmised a few posts back the repeated failure to present solid reasons would itself lead you to believe that there is no good explanation for carrying out such activity.

There is another more serious point to all this, given current child safeguarding legislation is everyone involved garda vetted?

The law is that anyone who works or volunteers with children and vulnerable must be garda vetted.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338044#Comment_119338044

I'm with you.

If Tesco workers wanted to wear Tesco outfits into a library to read to children, I would assume it's to advertise their brand or to create brand recognition in children.

I wouldn't be happy about that type of targeted promotion but at least it's blatantly obvious and I wouldn't be a tescophobe if I had questions.

DoctorEdgeWild

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338014#Comment_119338014

Some possible reasons:

To get paid (drag performers can make pretty good money, even though most of these gigs seem to be for free, see second point)

To increase exposure (all entertainers want to get their names 'out there' and it's very possible that some of the parents might want to catch a show, or the venue owners might see how good they are and book them for a different gig)

To give something back to the community (I recently did a community clean up for the Jubilee in my area (I'm not into the monarchy but I like community spirit/pride) and it felt great to see the results and talk to my neighbors)

To legitimise their career choice (Reading books to kids, interacting with those kids, talking to their parents, library goers etc. helps dispel some of the myths about Drag that we've seen in this thread. A lot of performers can feel pressure to go and get a 'real' job, this way they can show their career off to family/friends without trying to drag them to a gay bar/nightclub)

To feel good (most of us feel good when making kids laugh, entertaining them, having fun)

Why do you think some drag performers do this?

Disclosure: I am not a drag performer, I have never been to a story time, have no 'side' in an argument that does not have 'sides' anyway. I choose not to go to these events because they sound sh1te.

Ush1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119337868#Comment_119337868

If a woman dressed like that and with that amount of makeup came to read to kids I'd think it very odd, yes.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338079#Comment_119338079

To increase exposure to drag nights, it's inappropriate to do so in a child centric environment.

To give back to the community, you do not need to be dressed in drag.

To legitimise their career choice? their choice is to be a drag queen. not a children's entertainer.

To feel good? Yeah, maybe if reading to kids in drag makes you feel "good", don't do it.

My personal opinion is that it is done in an attempt to normalise drag.

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119334164#Comment_119334164

It is very strange and outdated that a person in their 50's does not or cannot use the internet or social media. How does she manage her independence, ie banking, bills, trip bookings, flights, etc?

Not being up to date with basic technology at a relatively young age puts a person at a disadvantage.

DoctorEdgeWild

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338099#Comment_119338099

What do you mean by normalise?

Do singers sing to normalise singing?

Do dancers dance to normalise dancing?

Or do the above two examples fit far better with my explanations than yours?

anewme

I don't know much about drag queen story time so had a look at a website called Drag Queen Story Hour UK. They are having summer tours across UK in a lot of PUBLIC LIBRARIES. They read stories such as "going on a bear hunt" and "guess how much I love you", "I say ooh, you say Ahhh".

This is their rationale.

We are built out of the dreams of our children. Let's make those dreams fabulous!"

Drag Queen Story Hour UK provide fun and interactive kids shows with amazing and talented drag performers! Drag Queen Story Hour UK wants to show the world that being different is not a bad thing, and by providing imaginative role models for children to look up to, we can change the world book by book!

The following is from the current government’s ‘Working for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Equality: Moving Forward’. 

• 65% of LGBT+ secondary school pupils experience homophobic bullying at school
• 97% of LGBT+ pupils report regularly hearing homophobic language in school
• 80% of LGBT+ pupils have NOT been taught about safe sex in relation to same-sex relationships
• More than 80% of trans young people have self-harmed, as have 60% of lesbian, gay and bi young people who aren’t trans.
• Just under 50% of young trans people have attempted to take their own life, and 20% of lesbian, gay and bi students who aren’t trans have done the same.

If you are introduced to something new in a positive way, you will react in a positive way. We want to do the same for anybody who is different in the UK.

I dont have children myself, but I would have no problem whatsoever taking my nieces or nephews to this. I would not even question it to be honest. I totally get what they are trying to do. Nothing to do with corrupting children as per the fear mongers here, but teaching them that different is good, creativity and imagination are to be embraced. Its not much different than taking them to a pantomime where there is a dame?

Thinking of people here who said they would not allow their kids associate with other kids who are allowed attend events like this and that their parents are wokey wnkers, it is clear whose children are at the disadvantage and its not the ones going to the storytime.

OP needs to take off his tinfoil hat.

Bannasidhe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119334950#Comment_119334950

What exactly do you think will happen?

C'mon. Have the courage of your convictions and say exactly what threat you think there is to children "hanging out with people who are compelled to read to children while in drag"?

Let go of the insinuations. The sly references. The nod nod wink wink and just say exactly, in plain English, what you fear will happen to children who are being read a story by a drag queen.

My son grew up to be a 6 foot tall, heterosexual, hairy biker who refuses to wear a frock even for a bet. Did the drag queens reading stories to him in the early 90s do that?

M three

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338099#Comment_119338099

I lose track of the amount of times I say this - if people want to give back and assist their community there is no better way than to get involved and a local sports team, or get involved in a youth group.

However everyone that does, even someone who carries water bottles during field sports, has to be garda vetted.

Are the men who dress up as women and read stories to children garda vetted?

If not they are not complying with current child safeguarding legislation.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338132#Comment_119338132

Yes.

Singers normalise singing. It's a normal thing to do contextually. It would be abnormal to sing on a bus for example. But to sing on a stage would be very normal.

Dancers normalise dancing. It's a normal thing to do contextually. It would be abnormal to dance on a bus for example. But to dance on stage would be very normal.

I'm questioning why an adult man would choose to dress as the opposite sex if their only task was to read a story to children and have no other motivation

Still waiting for an answer to that

growleaves

'but teaching them that different is good'

An almost entirely content-less assertion since 'different' could mean anything.

Also, if this is no different from pantomime and pantomimes already exists they why is this so important (and passionately defended)?

Why not skip this and take your chilren to a pantomime instead?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338265#Comment_119338265

No idea. My issue wouldn't be Garda vetting though. I don't see why anyone reading a story to a child needs to be Garda vetted if the parents are present and complicit.

DoctorEdgeWild

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338328#Comment_119338328

Pretty sure I gave you five possible reasons why they might? But I'll break it down so there's no grey area.

An adult man might dress as the opposite sex to read a story to children if they were a Drag Queen and doing the reading in character. Similar to how any other performer might be in character.

Now that I've answered yours clearly, might you do me the same? What other motivation are you implying?

M three

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338344#Comment_119338344

You could say the same about anyone who volunteers to provide an activity for children. Parents or guardians are present and complicit when children are brought to sports clubs. All adults involved in the activity MUST be garda vetted in accordance with the Law. .

Has anyone checked if the men dressed as women engaging with children are all garda vetted?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119337567#Comment_119337567

Yes, it's been happening all round the world, as you've seen from this discussion. Comedic effect is a pretty good thing to bring when entertaining children, I'd have thought. Saying it is 'unusual' doesn't imply that it is bad or wrong. Is there something that you're not telling us?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119337789#Comment_119337789

What reason did you have in mind there? The one that I don't want to admit apparently - what is it please?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119337873#Comment_119337873

Excuse me, but why would you think that you get a veto or even a vote on what kind activities other people do. If you're not going to attend, it's none of your business. No one needs your 'consensus' to proceed, or anyone's consensus. We're not in Handmaid Tale territory just yet.

This reminds me of the busybody on every residents committee who thinks they're in charge of everyone else's activities.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119337927#Comment_119337927

I'm not a spokesperson for drag queens. If you want to know more about it, there's loads of reading material online. Do your own research.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338014#Comment_119338014

I'm unwilling to offer an opinion because it's not something I know much about. I might as well offer an opinion on the best brain tumour chemotherapy methods or the best economic development opportunities in Uruguay or the outcome of tonight's soccer match. They're all things I know nothing about, so my opinions are entirely irrelevant.

I'm also unwilling to offer an opinion because it is clear that the question is not in good faith. If you want information about drag story time, go do your own research.

If you want to get off the fence and have the cojones to say what you're desperately trying to hint at, be my guest.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338340#Comment_119338340

Why not do both?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338344#Comment_119338344

They don't. In a school situation, parents coming into a class to assist a teacher with story time or any activity don't need to be Garda vetted, as they are never alone with children. The teacher will always be present. Same would apply to drag story time.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338044#Comment_119338044

That's not the law.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338098#Comment_119338098

I think the make-up and fashion styles of lots of young women is very odd, with the big iips and freakish cheekbones. But that's just me being an old fogey. They can do whatever the hell they like with their bodies. I don't own other people's fashion choices. Neither do you.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338099#Comment_119338099

What's wrong with feeling good about working with children on an entertaining activity?

Do you have a problem with normalising drag?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338265#Comment_119338265

I think that running round a mucky field chasing an inflated animal bladder is a very strange way to spend a Saturday morning. But lots of people seem to enjoy it, so good luck to them. They don't need my permission or blessing.

Your statement about child safeguarding legislation is wrong.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338020#Comment_119338020

Why not?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338613#Comment_119338613

It's actually quite impressive that you managed to write so much and say so little.

I will ask you one last time, why, in your opinion, would a grown man be motivated to wear a full drag costume in order read a book to children?

You say you have no opinion to offer. If that's the case, I can't see why you'd insist on contributing. I've answered any question you've asked of me. You've refused to offer your opinion. Yet you say I'm acting in bad faith.

I've given my opinion.

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338265#Comment_119338265

If people want to get involved in their local Community in a different way than you keep saying, that does not make your way right and their way wrong. People feel passionate about different things. Thats why we are all different.

If everyone engaging with children needs Garda vetting to comply with legislation, then I'm not sure what your point is. Are you assuming that the water bottle carriers are, but the storytellers are not?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338785#Comment_119338785

I've said very little that you like, but I've actually said quite a lot.

Do you have a problem with normalising drag?

M three

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338789#Comment_119338789

Absolutely, but yes the information is explicitly clear on who needs to be garda vetted. I've highlighted the applicable parts;

You must be Garda vetted if your work or activity at a relevant organisation involves access to children or vulnerable adults. This includes staff, contractors, agency workers, volunteers, and anyone on a student placement or apprenticeship in:

• Childcare services
• Schools
• Hospitals and health services
• Residential services or accommodation for children or vulnerable people
• Treatment, therapy or counselling services for children or vulnerable people
• Services that provide leisure, sporting or physical activities to children or vulnerable people

Are the men who dress as women and engage with children all aware that they need to be garda vetted before they volunteer to engage with children and provide a leisure activity, namely reading stories?

Jafin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119337927#Comment_119337927

How did I avoid the question? I answered it very clearly. Drag Queen is a job. As part of their job they have an attire that they wear. Why does anyone like to read stories to children? To give back to the community, to do something nice. Being a drag queen adds an extra element to it, a draw, a unique selling point. If you have a USP you are more likely to get more customers. It's no different to an entertainer that dresses up as a clown or a superhero. Drag queens are entertainers. Full stop. Some are specifically adult entertainers, but not all of them are.

There is also an element of education about the LGBTQ+ community to it aswell of course. I'm assuming you're a heterosexual? If not then my apologies. As a gay man myself there was almost nothing to represent me or the LGBTQ+ culture when I was growing up. I didn't come out to my mother until I was 25. I spent years agonising over my sexuality and fearing I would be rejected by my mother. I'm 33 now, and the world is a very different place. If I was a teenager now I would be willing to bet I'd have a much easier time coming out, and that's thanks to gay culture slowly but surely being normalised. This is just one small part of it.

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119339314#Comment_119339314

I think you'd have to ask them directly and individually and if it applies to that particular event.

The recent viral incident in Mayo, with the far right crew showing up and intimidating people and shouting about Garda Vetting did not lead to any arrests of the storytellers, or did it?

Jafin

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119337993#Comment_119337993

Your delivery driver analogy does not work, because a drag queen performing drag story time is still performing their job. A UPS driver going out and reading to children in his/her/their uniform would not be doing it as part of their job.

Victoria Scone is a woman who is a drag queen. She is what's known colloquially as an "AFAB Queen." AFAB means Assigned Female At Birth. What that means in simpler terms is that she was born female, just like most of the women I presume you know. She has chosen drag queen as her career. She does not dress up as an exaggerated caricature of man, that would be a drag king.

Below is a link to a picture of Victoria Scone. On the left is her in drag, on the right is her out of drag.

https://www.advocate.com/sites/default/files/styles/amp_metadata_content_image_min_696px_wide/public/victoria-scone-disqualified.jpg

Ten of Swords

@AllForIt do not post in this thread again

M three

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119339451#Comment_119339451

Were the gardai asked to check if the man dressed as a woman engaging with kids was garda vetted?

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119339466#Comment_119339466

I think you'd have to ask the Gardai that? Or been one of the nutters there?

No one has been arrested as far as I am aware, unless you know differently?

M three

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119339481#Comment_119339481

Excuse me I was neither there or am I a nutter. Please do not use such derogatory language towards me.

I do not know if anyone was arrested. It is however very clear that everyone who volunteers to engage with children needs to be Garda Vetted.

Would you foresee any issue with the men who dress as women engaging with children going through the garda vetting process?

anewme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119339509#Comment_119339509

You were asking me if anyone there asked if the Gardai were asked to check if the people telling stories were Garda Vetted.

How on earth would I know?

Previous response applies:

(1) You'd have to ask the Gardai yourself?

(2) Been one of the far right nutters there "protesting and asked the Gardai themselves. Ask the angry mob who were there.

Your choices in respect of that incident are limited to 1 or 2.

There does not appear to have been any storytellers arrested.

Ray Palmer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119338044#Comment_119338044

How do you feel about Punch and Judy shows and their appropriateness for children? I personally think showing domestic violence to children is worse than seeing a man in charcuterie reading a book.

Why assume they aren't vetted?