All Blacks v Ireland part III - July 16 8.05am Ireland time

AbusesToilets

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347616#Comment_119347616

I was having flashbacks to the bataclan attacks when those booms started going off. Dumb af

Strand1970

This morning watching Jordan try I had mixed emotions but I enjoyed his try.

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119346146#Comment_119346146

Well at some point in time someone is going to have to look at the bigger picture on this stuff. Ireland winning a World Cup would mean more to the IRFU in terms of revenue over the next half decade than another round of competing in our regional competition.

At some point we need to stop hiding behind our desire to have a few pints in February as a valid reason to inhibit our performance every fourth Autumn.

I don’t know who I’m appealing to here really. The powers that be continue to be extremely small minded and without vision as far as this goes.

To put it another way: eventually you’re going to run out of road hyping up a sporting entity that fails to get into the last 4 of an essential 10 team competition, when that competition is the biggest platform for the sport.

Ideally this incredible moment would free Irish rugby from its self imposed shackles that imprison it from winning the big game. We are big and strong and have nothing to fear. Let’s focus our energies on more of what really matters.

kuang1

"Well at some point in time someone is going to have to look at the bigger picture on this stuff. Ireland winning a World Cup would mean more to the IRFU in terms of revenue over the next half decade than another round of competing in our regional competition."

Ehhh... No. Untrue I'm afraid.

But would happily be open to correction if you could back this up with any hard facts.

It's well known that the 6ns competition is the primary source of revenue for the IRFU.

Degree of success in any given world cup does not contribute (in the form of prize money) to the income of any international rugby union.

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347826#Comment_119347826

It would contribute massively to the marketability and long term interest in the game in Ireland. And aid the player pool pipeline. Our regional competition has been raked for revenue to the max. I am highly dubious that we can grow the game any further on the basis of what happens in an annual regional tournament. It’s a profitable endeavour, but it would be profitable even if we finish 3rd or 4th (which happens every couple of years anyway) while giving players we will need to depend on valuable starts ahead of the global quadrennial competition that really matters. Landsdowne Road will still be full and the ads will still run.

We’ll probably still beat England on Paddy’s Day no matter who’s playing,

What we have we hold is a small minded and unambitious mindset in anything. But Irish rugby seems dug in on this point. Such a shame when a bigger future is clearly possible.

Today was the biggest day in Irish rugby history, bigger than any grand slam or six nations. Doing more of this (winning on a global level rather than a regional one) is the most profitable endeavour the IRFU can engage in.

kuang1

Really don't know where your logic is coming from here...

Irish rugby has just achieved something it never has before.

And also something Wales, Scotland or England has ever done in their history.

Ever.

Yet your argument is that in order to grow the game nationally, it's world cup or bust?

Ok. It's nice to meet you anyway.

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347830#Comment_119347830

In order to continue to grow the game we need to do more of the rare and the extraordinary. How could one argue otherwise on such a remarkable day?

This isn’t a complicated point: Johnny Sexton shouldn’t start a six nations game in 2023. He will start against South Africa in France, health permitting.

Let’s do what we should to get this amazing team ready to do even more amazing things next year.

Sure, you are imprisoned within your orthodoxy. And it is a shame. We all can agree that we want more of this. We can skip the pints and the back slapping and the sense of self satisfaction one February, just one. It will be worth it, I promise.

Ardillaun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119346528#Comment_119346528

I thought we’d really miss Kelleher in that position but Sheehan has been incredibly good.

kuang1

Ok you're really all over the shop with your points, so this is my last engagement.

You highlighted revenue from winning a world cup vs what the 6ns generates for the IRFU, which is the point I responded to. You're wrong there in terms of direct income.

Winning a world cup doesn't generate DIRECT revenue for the IRFU, you know that right?

I think you're trying to say that if Ireland win a rugby world Cup then all the kids on the street are suddenly abandoning their hurleys and o'neills footballs for a rugby ball instead, and arguing over who gets to be Johnny and who gets to be Bundi? And a knock on effect of that is income from "everything rugby" increases... Fair enough.

Then you state Sexton shouldn't start a 2023 6ns game? For the sake of... Player development?

Yeah no player development happening under the Farrell regime. Especially at 10.

Who's Frawley again?

Your last paragraph seems to imply that we Irish rugby fans/players/coaches are going to coast or freewheel on the back of this result for the forseeable future, is condescending at best.

Have you paid any attention to the interviews and general rhetoric from the Irish camp in the last 12-15months?

We're witnessing a slow but steady upward curve of everything to do with Irish rugby.

It's a pity people like yourself can't appreciate and revel in the absolute brilliance and joy that it generates.

But someday, maybe. Who knows!

Good luck to you sir/madam.

Shehal

Was out all day so haven't been able to comment.

I remember 10 days ago roughly I said this Irish team has no strength in character.

I was well wrong.

They showed balls of steel to recover after that NZL resurgence in the 2nd Half.

Overall this win was definitely the most satisfying. From the 2nd and 3rd try which were gorgeous to the beauty of a maul we had ( where the hell has this maul been, it was an absolute weapon yesterday) its really hard to pick what to be the most proud about yesterday! Brilliant!

anglesorangles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347273#Comment_119347273

Feck off man , it was a test!

anglesorangles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347836#Comment_119347836

You are cuckoo if you dont think winning a world cup wont lead to 10 times the revenue that a grand slam would. You just focusing on prize money is absurd. It would transcend the sport in ireland.

TheRona

The Limericks are flowing in the comments section of kiwi news articles after the match.

There once was a coach they called Faz

Who scorned the All Black razmatazz

When faced with a test

His team was the best

They dispatched the All Blacks with pizzazz.

There once was a coach they called Fozzie

They thought he was the man, but was he?

He can't win a test

He's average at best

He won't beat the Springboks or Aussie!

OldRio

I never ever thought in my 64 years I'd see a win in NZ. Never mind a series win. It would be wrong to single out players for special praise. They all were phenomenal.

If you can't enjoy the warm and fuzzy glow from that performance, and want to concentrate on negativity, well you really have problems. Serious problems.

Utterly stunning display.

pc7

That video of POM is so sh1tty, hate that carry on, leave him be. Fair play to Aki trying to keep him out of trouble.

Watched the game back last night, and I hate to say it, but I think we had a couple of extremely fortunate refereeing moments from yesterday's game:

-Had Ardie Savea not scored his try, we were facing a certain yellow card. 3 times our players had cynically fallen on the wrong side slowing up the ball within 5m of our line.

-I don't know how Bundee's clear out on Tu'ungafasi escaped sanction. It looked like a clear shot to the head with the shoulder, minimum yellow card.

-Porter's incident is a clear red to me. If the shoe was on the other foot, I feel like Irish fans would be howling for a red. I get the arguments that he "absorbs" the contact, but he's still fully upright at the point of the collision, in fact he arguably kind of extends upwards at the point of the collision. Plenty of refs would have given a red here and if it was given, we would have had no complaints.

-The Ardie Savea penalty 5m out from the NZ line in the 63rd minute looked harsh to me. To me, the ball was out, it had cleared the hindmost foot. Barnes gave the penalty because he deemed the ball still in the ruck (says something about "he wasn't sure the ball was out" immediately afterwards), so didn't appear to have an issue with where Savea came from. We had no one there resourcing that ruck, so once again, couldn't really have had any complaints in my view. We scored the match winning try from the resulting line out.

I know these are the fine margins that test matches hinge on, and obviously we've been on the wrong side of some egregiously bad decisions in the past (and even arguably in this series), but still feel any of these four incidents could have gone the other way and swung the outcome.

Ireland well deserved it over the three games, massive achievement.

France and Ireland favourites at this stage (France number 1 but Ireland not far behind). NZ, ENG, SA can still have a say if they get their act together but struggling to see beyond that really.

A year is such a long time in rugby though, someone will come in to the equation, AUS played some good stuff against England, just lacked the physicality, Skelton maybe!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347528#Comment_119347528

Took this comment from reddit. Please excuse the snarkey tone:

Read the actual rules so you can criticise it correctly. Its fine to disagree with the decision but maybe complain about the actual part of the rule that makes it a yellow instead of discussing something irrelevant like "change of direction".

I'll even provide a link for you:

https://resources.world.rugby/worldrugby/document/2021/03/10/e597c9c8-e852-4e19-875f-18e02e7f7e24/Head_Contact_Process_EN_v1.pdf

The reason its a yellow is because step 3: degree of danger. Barnes considered it to be a soak tackle rather than a dominant tackle. Hence yellow. Last week the ref mentioned Ta'avoa stepping into the tackle so he believed it was a dominant one.

I'm not saying its right or wrong. I'm simply pointing out how the decisions are made

salmocab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347991#Comment_119347991

The thing about it is he’s not actually doing anything apart from being drunk. It’s not like he’s trashing something or being a dick. I was sent it by a few people and I really don’t know why anyone is interested.

Interested Observer

Rugby team in wins, goes on the beer shocker.

Anyway. It's a good day to be alive.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347831#Comment_119347831

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347817#Comment_119347817

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347829#Comment_119347829

You've got this backwards in terms of "bigger picture" or "small minded" or "orthodoxy". The bigger picture is that IRFU needs the prize money from the six nations badly. It is where a large percentage of funding comes from apparently. Looking at it as if it's all about fans having a pint in February in perhaps a tad small minded. I totally agree that Sexton should not be starting most of the coming Six Nations games for the sake of development but the difference in coming 1st to 2nd or 2nd to 3rd or even 3rd to 4th is millions of euro. This is why, and this will always be why, we will try win the six nations every year.

https://www.totalsportal.com/rugby/six-nations-championship-prize-money/

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348120#Comment_119348120

Put a smile on my face

Yeah_Right

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348060#Comment_119348060

Fair points there. I don't think anyone could have complained Bundee had been carded or Porter got a red. On the Bundee incident, did that happen in the build up to Savea's try? Maybe it was Akira's.

I did wonder if Barnes would yellow card someone for repeated infringements even after Savea scored. Doesn't happen often but I have seen it and I think refs should do it more often.

I think the Savea penalty in the 63rd minute was a fair call. He never got onside. He was halfway up the ruck before he went for the ball. You say Barnes didn't mention that but I think right decision for the wrong reason then.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348060#Comment_119348060

Happens all the time, if the team score a try the ref will not hit them with a yellow. I think the only time I seen it done recently was the Ireland v Oz tour when Ireland got a yellow card after Oz scored the try. Or maybe other way around, can't remember but it should happen but doesn't. That is all over the World

Porter was not a red card, not according to the laws.

None of those calls are "egregious".

Rugby is a contact sport, if you want to spend 2-3 times trying to find penalties and decision hours after the game that is ok but I don't want to watch a sport when every ruck is reviewed to death to see if something happened. We seen something like that on the Lions and it was awful.

Former Former Former

I was very relieved the Bundee clear out wasn't reviewed, I don't think it would have ended well for us.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119346966#Comment_119346966

I would assume he means Sky UK. Which I was really tempted to turn the sound off when watching live. Just watched it back with the NZ commentary and I really wish we could have commentators like that. Knowledgeable, impartial, clearly fans of good rugby. As for whoever that muppet they got yesterday with the RTE radio DJ accent. My god he was appalling and infuriating to listen to.

Calahonda52

What is telling is that none of the NZ press and other commentary made any reference to what might have been blah blah blah.

They were not good enough on the day over the 80 minutes

Life is lived in real time, not in a darkened room salivating over slo mo replays.

pc7

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348120#Comment_119348120

No I’m not saying you are bad for sharing, sure it’s all over Twitter and SM. He’s not doing anything but people should cop on and leave him off, I just hate that stuff of phones out and posting.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347871#Comment_119347871

Do you have any evidence to back this up? Any at all?

Advertising, sponsorship and kit deals. Would be a tiny generator of income. Compared to TV rights and gate receipts for internationals. Neither of which would be significantly affected by winning a World Cup. Unless you think growing the game means more corporate interest on match days.

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347836#Comment_119347836

I’m not “all over the shop” with my points. The thrust of my argument is very straightforward and simple. I can see you disagree with it, but that doesn’t make it muddled.

I AM saying that if we could come out of a rugby World Cup without being embarrassed at the end this could help the game reach portions of the populace it has yet to reach. I don’t think this is a controversial point, and it isn’t countered by talking about direct prize money. The IRFU doesn’t just earn prize money anyway. There is ad revenue, ticket sales, etc.

Most pertinently, we also don’t get 1st place prize money every year inspite of our continued competitive prioritisation of the competition.

I am not making an extreme point on player development. Farrell has done a great job and yet we are running out of time to start other options at 10 in BIG games. Sexton is probably our greatest ever player but from a WC preparation perspective we clearly shouldn’t start him in February and March.

I’m not taking about coasting - I’m talking about how brave it would be for us to approach autumn 2022 and spring 2023 with a mindset of being the absolute best we can be in autumn 2023, when it counts.

You try and wave me away by painting me as “negative” or unable to enjoy this result. Yesterday’s game was the greatest experience in my lifetime as an Irish rugby fan. It is not negative to say let’s do it - let’s take this forward into the big show next year. Let’s use it as a springboard and - in the knowledge that we can achieve something so monumental - try and put ourselves in the best position to do something we haven’t done before.

Because the outcome would be far more significant than the prize money difference than 2nd and 3rd place in the Six Nations. And it will be a feeling a lot bigger than beating England on Paddy’s weekend, again.