All Blacks v Ireland part III - July 16 8.05am Ireland time

eagle eye

GAA is Ireland's biggest sport and even with kids rugby they try their best to make it awkward. They start their season a week or two before Rugby finishes and end their season just after Rugby begins.

The attractiveness of Rugby for parents is growing though because kids have a chance to make a professional career out of rugby if they excel at it. The other attraction is that it's a game for all shapes and sizes.

The way to grow the game even further is to have third level scholarships country wide. That'll make it even more attractive to parents.

There's lots more money available if we concentrate on kids. It'll take some time obviously. There's lots of GAA money to be had and big grants from the government like what the GAA get.

I'm involved in coaching in both Rugby and GAA with kids. Rugby is no.1 for me and I'm constantly talking to parents about having their kids participate in Rugby for the winter.

Our club has grown massively over the last five years. We used to have 60-80 kids combined between all ages under 13, we are now over 300.

Success at international level is of huge benefit for selling the game and getting more people involved. In turn this will lead to more coaching opportunities for players. They'll have the chance to spend their whole lives in Rugby. This should be used as a selling point to the players to keep them focused during the off-season.

Right now we have the opportunity to have a great WC next year. I'd wrap Johnny in cotton wool like many have mentioned. This will be good in more ways than just making sure we have him in great shape for the World Cup. It'll mean that we can give opportunities to our other no.10's and find our best no.2 and he'll have confidence and be synced up with the team by the time the WC comes around.

Personally I think a man that plays a lot at centre could be our best flyhalf. He's gone to Connacht for two years but I'm not sure he'll get many opportunities to play at 10, that young man is David Hawkshaw. He captained and led Ireland to an under 20 grand slam playing 10. Unfortunately there was no room for him at out-half in Leinster with Johnny, the Byrne brothers and Frawley ahead of him in the pecking order so he played centre. I'd love to see him get opportunities at 10 but I could be totally wrong about how good he'll be. I thought when I seen him at under 20 level that he was the future at the position. Then a couple of months ago he got an opportunity to play there as a sub against Connacht in URC. Leinster struggled in that game until he came on and took over the game. I was so impressed by him in that game.

I realise the above is a ramble but just felt like posting something and got carried away. 😁

anglesorangles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348291#Comment_119348291

Common sense. Not one person would agree with you here. Have you any evidence to back your ridiculous statement up?

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348060#Comment_119348060

• Well Savea did score so there isnt much to say there.
• Happens, move on.
• It isnt a clear because the risk of danger is low due to Brodie Retallick running into contact rather Porter running into Brodie. Has Barnes said he absorbed the hit. Last week Ta'avao also ran into contact and it was a high degree of danger. That is the difference between this week being a yellow and last week being a red. A ref could give a red but at the same time there was enough mitigation to downgrade the hit to a yellow so Barnes had every right to, there wasn't enough last week to mitigation Ta'avao's hit so Peyper had no option.
• You really are desperately trying to give NZL the benefit of the doubt here if you think that ball is out. Firstly if you look at the point Savea goes offside (which the penalty was actually for) you can clearly see two feet right next to the ball that are further away from the ruck than the ball meaning the ball is still clearly in the ruck, I still cant believe peopler trying to argue this! Go back and learn the rules about the ruck is my advice.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QtRbbgQH04U&t=683s

Pause at 1:45:32, how you on any universe think that ball is out is beyond me!

When you are the clearly better team as Ireland were yesterday you tend to get breaks going for you and Ireland did but bar the Bundee incident (which I need to see in better detail).

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348135#Comment_119348135

I mean is it really beyond the scope of the IRFU to risk 1m in prize money (when not starting Sexton / POM / Furlong doesn’t guarantee losing and starting them doesn’t guarantee winning) in order to properly prepare for the WC.

If that’s a serious argument or justification for not taking a long term competitive view then yes - we are exactly as small time as you would expect a rugby nation that has never made the last 4 of a 10 team comp in ten attempts.

The **** players and the coaching staff aren’t small time. Wouldn’t it be great if the blazers could actually give them the space to put their best foot forward on the biggest stage?

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348259#Comment_119348259

I think it was fairly clear in the end that the best team over the test series won. The difference between both head collisions was nuanced, but there is a difference nonetheless. And it was explained by the ref in real time; and it can be explained with the benefit of hindsight by analysts after the fact.

I think this is what makes the series win so special: when you’re good enough all the obstacles (tiredness; player availability; environment; history; home town reffing) don’t matter. We just dealt with all of the difficulties and summited them.

New Zealand have an excellent competitive culture and will know they had the context and conditions in their favour and were beaten fair and square.

Fionn1952

I understand the mentality of prioritising the World Cup, it's a serious monkey on our back.....but there's also the, 'success begets success' side of things. Winning matches creates a confidence that we'll need going into the WC, I don't think getting tanked in the 6N by England and France by playing half a team is the tactical masterclass some think.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348339#Comment_119348339

It might be in the fantasy land some of those people live on but not in the real world. Its clear the biggest weakness of this Irish side iw the mental side of it, the solution to this is to keep winning on a consistent basis is exactly what the doctor ordered in this case, Ireland need to believe they capable of winning week after week like they will need to do in 2023 to win the RWC.

The next big aim has to be winning the Grand Slam, we have France at home so there is no excuses, win the Slam combined with this series win and that will set us up perfectly for the RWC.

anglesorangles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348367#Comment_119348367

Oh i completly think we should still try win the six nations , teams need momentum always have always will. But theres a few lunatics that think the Six nations is monetarily more important than the world cup because the prize money is higher.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348294#Comment_119348294

The attractiveness of rugby for vast majority of parents is not at all that rugby is professional. A tiny number of those who play rugby in schools/youths rugby turn pro. it wont be a concern for overwhelming majority who do play the sport.

the way to grow the game isnt about third level scholarships countrywide. they all exist already. its to build the club game and improve coaching standards, facilities, competitions the kids play in and getting the kids playing far more games against higher quality teams.

Would agree about Sexton in terms of world cup. we need to look at other options increase and improve the depth chart even more than Farrell has so far.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348303#Comment_119348303

The trouble with common sense, is it’s not very common. Clearly

https://d19fc3vd0ojo3m.cloudfront.net/irfu/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/18104921/IRFU_AnnualReport_1819.pdf

pc7

I don’t know, as a parent I don’t want mine playing rugby tbh, all the concussion stuff is very off putting. While WR is trying to get a handle on it and changing laws, it has a long way to go.

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348367#Comment_119348367

Fantasy lands eh?

I live on the real world where you need to play 5 Saturdays in a row in the World Cup and Sexton will be 38.

We need to look at our weakest spots, and start lads in big games where 11 or 12 players are first choice. So that when we have to do it in France we are ready.

The big takeaway from yesterday is that this is worth doing. We have an incredible team.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348375#Comment_119348375

We absolutely need to. You cant bullshit you're way to a RWC win, the teams that win it tend to be confident teams that believe they are truly the best in the world. The only way we will ever go to a RWC with that mentality is if we keep winning games so without question the aim needs to be win the GS in 2023.

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348339#Comment_119348339

This is exactly what blows my mind about these conversations.

We can see how quickly confidence in this team seeps out when we lose.

A couple of losses in the 6N and all of a sudden the very same people who demanded that we use it to bring players through are giving out stink about the losses.

That this conversation has been circulating on here since yday is infuriating. We just created history and it's still not enough for some.

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348504#Comment_119348504

You can choose to be infuriated. Or you could see this as a positive - our expectations for next autumn should be high. It is justified.

Faugheen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348520#Comment_119348520

So let's worry about that next Spring when we come into the Six Nations, then?

Let people enjoy it. Nobody beats the All Blacks in New Zealand. We just did.

None of this nonsense about potentially peaking too early or sacking off the Six Nations. Christ.

BonnieSituation

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348520#Comment_119348520

Ah give over.

Shehal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348520#Comment_119348520

The aim should be win our 8 from 8 next season, SA will be difficult in the autumn but at home I would back us to get the job done albeit a close game.

The 6N with France & England at home we have no excuses, beating France in particular is important as we have yet to beat them since their resurgence and that could be a mental block if we end up facing them in the RWC.

Win 8 from 8 next year and continue to evolve is what's needed.

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348375#Comment_119348375

You clearly can’t read if you think it’s just about the prize money. Not to mention the fact that you can provide no evidence to back up your claim that it would be financially beneficial to sacrifice the 6N and gain some future windfall financially.

Seems to be predicated on more magical thinking. That somehow giving players who aren’t as good as the ones in the 23, match time in the 6N. They will magically become better options.

Madigan could have played 100 tests for Ireland prior to the 2015 quarter final. He still wouldn’t have been an international class 10.

it’s a real gamblers attitude. Let’s put it all on red. Which quite literally could be the rock you perish on. We could sacrifice everything to focus on the World Cup. Develop 40 players, with test experience over 4 years. Then get a red card 10 mins into a knock out game and go out of the tournament.

knock out rugby is completely fickle. Just look at England in the last World Cup. Sacrificed 18 months to peak in time for the World Cup and came up one game short.

We have just came through a tour, deliberately designed to create the pressures of the World Cup on a squad. We developed players in the Māori games. Who will be providing back up to the main squad. Throwing those players into 6N games won’t leave us in a better place than wining the 6N would.

We have depth all over the pitch. Except in two key positions. That’s Prop and outhalf. That happens to be because of the absolute gulf in class with what’s coming behind. No amount of test minutes will change that.

the baby bull elephant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348294#Comment_119348294

Hawkshaw played centre on that team. Harry Byrne was the starting 10 backed up by Ben Healy.

anglesorangles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348498#Comment_119348498

Absolutely agree , keep winning , and if we beat France and England we will have everyones number mentally!

pickarooney

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119346922#Comment_119346922

No, Retallick shouldn't have got the yellow and I don't understand why you would even extrapolate that.

It's not just 'one way of looking at it', it's explicitly the ref and World Rugby's interpretation of it and Barnes explained it on the pitch. There was a similar incident in a European club game about two months ago (can't remember the details) where the defender's passivity in the contact (soaking) moved it down from red to yellow.

FWIW I think all these head contact situations should be dealt with using a lot more cop-on and I wouldn't have red carded either Porter or Ta'avao. Aki's shoulder charge should probably have been a red; he's made a conscious decision to go in high and hard on a player who's not moving and there's no real way to argue it was accidental. Same with Scooter in the first game.

Lucy8080

It seems that the last team to lose the first test but to go on and win the series in N.Z. ,was the Saffas in 1937. Not too shabby an achievement yesterday!

Akrasia

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119347829#Comment_119347829

And despite being the biggest achievement by an Irish rugby team few people watched it because it was behind a pay wall and on at 8am on a Saturday morning.

The 6 nations is worth more because its commercial potential is much higher due to time zones and proximate fixtures.

flatface

the Idea of sacrificing the 6 nations for the World Cup is brought up regularly enough but has any World Cup winning team ever done this or similar? I think they were all consistent, stable and winning. Why would it suddenly work for us? Sound very far fetched.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348520#Comment_119348520

Our expectations are high. Or more to the point the squads expectations are high. They’ve spoken about winning the RWC FFS. That said, expectations need to be realistic. The 4 best teams in the world (SA, NZ, France and ourselves) are all on the same side of the QF draw. 2 of the top 4 teams in the world will not make the SFs. That doesn’t stop them being 2 of the top 4 teams. It just means the draw is crap. We could be 1 of the 2 that make it through, but it wouldn’t be galling to be 1 of the 2 that don’t.

You’ve said that doing well in a RWC could open rugby up to a wider audience in Ireland. What I’d love to know is who in Ireland has seen us win Grand Slams and test series in Australia and New Zealand and still aren’t interested, but who will suddenly find that interest if we make a SF in the RWC? Who are these people seeing us make history and do things no Irish team has ever done and after yesterday so few teams have ever done and yet still need a RWC SF to awaken their interest. What is so magical about a RWC SF that takes it beyond a test series win in NZ?

TRC10

We've won 3 Grand Slams in our history. We have a great chance to win another next year with the team being in a really good place currently and having England and France at home. We should absolutely not be "sacrificing" that for some very flimsy "player development" reasons which has never been proven to actually work. Carbery hasn't improved in 4 years of regular game time at Munster. There's no reason to think that starting a few 6N games will just magically make him an international calibre 10. He's got to show some quality at Munster next season.

Not to mention, England winning the GS in '03 was a massive stepping stone in that team's world cup winning journey. Wales won the GS in 2019 and built on that momentum to get to a semi final. South Africa won the Rugby Championship in 2019.

November is different on the other hand. I think beating South Africa is important, particularly because the hoodoo over "big" and "physical" sides is very much still there, and beating them is very important mentally. But Sexton should be nowhere near the Fiji and Australia games. I don't think that's a controversial opinion.

molloyjh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348060#Comment_119348060

The yellow for repeated infringements is rarely, if ever, called after a try is scored. In the first test NZ infringed repeatedly in their 22 and it took a good while plus no tries plus the game being over before they were carded (78 mins into the game).

For Akis clear out see the Barrett clear out on POM in the first test.

For Porters yellow see the Fainga’anuku yellow in the second test (and also JGPs yellow in the Connacht game for why it seems to be the correct call).

People often say that these things have a way of balancing themselves out over time. And I think they did over the course of the series pretty much.

TheRona

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348677#Comment_119348677

It was only really a tongue-in-cheek comment. You compared it to basketball where the attacker would get a foul for running into a stationary defender. That's how I came to Retallick getting a foul, directly from your analogy.

It's always going to be difficult to be completely fair. I think a mitigating factor for Ta'Avao is the time between Ringrose getting the ball and the collision is a split-second, and he clearly wasn't expecting it. On the flip side, Retallick received the ball well before impact, and the direction of his run followed the direction of play. It would have been a lot easier for Porter to set into a tackling position. None of these things are listed as factors when determining sanctions, though.

I'm sure the framework will be tweaked over time. There sure doesn't seem to be a reduction in head impacts over the last few years.

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119348725#Comment_119348725

I agree that a test series win in New Zealand is a superior achievement to getting to the semi final of a World Cup. As BOD said on OTB last week, it’s tangible and final. A losing semi final appearance would be disappointing.

However a World Cup Final appearance or winning the tournament itself?

And so what if the best sides are in our half of the draw? We’ve beaten all of these sides during the World Cup cycle. Let’s not beat ourselves before the tournament begins. If we can beat New Zealand in New Zealand we can beat them and whoever else in France when it counts the most.