Abuse of Referees

Morris Garren

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119754265#Comment_119754265

Assaulting under 9s now? (Alleged) Sounds like the GAA has become a home for unhinged adult lunatics. If the GAA from the very top don't make this their number 1 priority the slippery slope into disrepute is inevitable. Reap what you sow, all ye Davy Fitzgerald fans

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119754556#Comment_119754556

I think its happened to some degree already - ironically, I would feel underage soccer far worse than GAA when it comes to sideline aggression - however GAA & Refs has now become a media thing, and every story will be picked up on. They've let it get out of control, which probably in fairness is a good thing because the spectre of significant reputational damage may actually make them do something about it...

average_runner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119754730#Comment_119754730

Under age soccer is more aggressive from the side line for sure, couldn't believe how bad it was when the young lad started playing, basically calling for blood at times.

I have mentored in over 50 under age matches in gaa and never heard a bad word from the mentors or the parents on the side line. Thank god for that

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119755908#Comment_119755908

I would be exactly the same, and done a lot more than 50 matches..... but the way the media presents it is that GAA mentors are unhinged, in general.

Once in a blue moon you see some loonhead on the sideline. Thats it really.

It is difficult however - when you do come across them - to know how to handle it. Because they starting point is dealing with someone who is aggressive to begin with.

But as mentioned, it really doesnt happen often, my bigger issue as a mentor is getting the kids to show respect to the ref.

On the other hand, I fully buy into the notion that the GAA does nothing material to foster respect towards referees.

average_runner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756119#Comment_119756119

While it doesn't happen often, the gaa should act very heavily on it.

We had no issues with the refs but we are still under 12, if any of our lads say anything to the ref, they are taken off. Sure the refs are only teenagers doing us a favour.

evolvingtipperary101

A well-known North Tipp bar owner (former senior club hurler) told me, with a straight face, yesterday, that the Roscommon ref who was assaulted came out of hospital and told people that he just fainted and was never assaulted. All I could do was just look at him.

That's the kind of delusion you're up against. GAA heads who just want to believe it's all a big misunderstanding and everything is rosy in the garden. It's just a big media conspiracy. Our own would never do such things. Collective madness.

big_drive

Word around on the u9 juvenile blitz seems to be no child was actually grabbed by throat. But pulled away by the arm as they were striking another child with the hurley and the adult ran in to stop it continuing. Whether it's right, wrong or otherwise it's a bit different to the online article

Morris Garren

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757159#Comment_119757159

And is that from the GAA 'its all just the meeja' propaganda department ?

That's the equivalent of saying ' well I heard from a lad on the street' etc etc, sure it must be true

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757159#Comment_119757159

But, just like the media/social media warriors that went bonkers over the teacher that said girls wearing leggings was too provocative ,(when it was proven that that was false/lies) the truth (if what you say is true) wont get the same outcry that someone pulling a u9 off the pitch by a throat will .......

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670751#Comment_119670751

An update on this and a general example of how the disciplinary/appeals process is a bit of a farce.

The team were originally kicked out as a result of the mentor's actions, a 96 week ban handed to the mentor and a fine for the club.

On appeal, the team was reinstated and the mentor's ban reduced to 2 weeks.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119759297#Comment_119759297

Seriously, how could there be such a discrepancy?

uptherebels

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757562#Comment_119757562

Well i'm 35 now, when I was in 5th class in primary school so 10 years old, we were playing a club game and had a parent run on a drop one of our players with a punch.

This caused a mass brawl between about 30 people as people came on the pitch to back up the scumbag that hit the kid when he got laid out by our manager.

Unfortunately I never knew what came of it after as it wasn't talked about.

So this isn't a new problem for the GAA.

DellyBelly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119755908#Comment_119755908

I'd agree with you re the soccer being more agressive. The problem is they see the likes of Klopp at the weekend acting like a savage towards referee's and it's a case of monkey see monkey do.

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119759315#Comment_119759315

Lots of controversy about it on a local level. I don't know all the facts but apparently the video evidence (which was flying around WhatsApp) wasn't allowed at the appeal.

The mentor is a prominent businessman/owns a high profile hotel in the area... Probably best to leave it at that.

There's talk of the replay having to be played behind closed doors or with a heavy Garda presence. It's all a bit nuts and as long as these appeals are standard practice, the GAA is going to have serious issues.

Leroy42

Goes back to the club really. The club should exclude the mentor. They shouldn't hide behind the skirt of the GAA. GAA, we are told, is all about community. Well, its time the communities stand up to this behaviour.

As a club, the mentor involved should be told he is no longer welcome at the club in any capacity.

The GAA as a whole of course needs to get its own house in order, but the greatest difference to the attitude will be gained from a change in attitude from the clubs themselves.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119759351#Comment_119759351

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119759380#Comment_119759380

Prominent businessman ? Probably has the name on a teams jersey or two ...

Gives money every year ....

Club wont cut off the hand that feeds them ?

Leroy42

And that is why you need to have the club kicked out of the competition. Sure, it may seem unfair to the players, but until the clubs actually see the cost of this attitude then nothing will change.

Behind closed doors? It was the supporters that were the problem, why should parents be excluded from watching their kids play if the game goes ahead?

The parents should be asking serious questions of the club as to why a man that clearly cannot control his temper is allowed anywhere near the players.

You start to actually have consequences for the clubs and things will change overnight.

evolvingtipperary101

"For me, I'm not on social media. Others obviously are and that's absolutely fine. Maybe there is stuff that I'd say from a support and education perspective. Are there things that referees can do to insulate themselves?

"It's not easy, but the mental piece is something that has become a bigger thing over the last number of years, probably with the increased attention."

"It is tough, there's no point saying otherwise," said Coldrick, in reference to the Central Competitions Control Committee (CCCC) overturning refereeing decisions.

"Having said that, what is important is that the referee does his or her job in terms of dealing with what they see and hear on the day.

"Report it as accurately as possible, and then you leave it to the powers that be, and what would be good, is for referees, both at national and the club level, to get feedback from those committees where there are sanctions overturned as to the reasons why.

"It's not always transparent as to why they were overturned, because maybe it's something that we're doing wrong, we're not reporting correctly or whatever.

"So I think that feedback loop is something that isn't there, which would be important if there's stuff that we can do that can tighten up that process and eliminate some of the loopholes, then obviously, we're all for it. But that feedback loop isn't always there and I think that would be important going forward."

The strength of sanctions has also come up for debate, with Coldrick telling the tale of his own experiences.

"I think it is partly sanctions, but it's not just sanctions for the individual, I think it's trying to broaden out the responsibility on clubs and the accountability on clubs," said Coldrick.

"Yes, the individual needs to take responsibility, but you can have instances and I know, of instances where, an individual mentor at a juvenile level is suspended, and the club is fined.

"But actually, the fine is paid by the individual. So therefore, the club doesn't really have to take responsibility, and they are making the person accountable, because they're paying the fine.

"He goes out and he does it again, which, in one particular instance, I know did happen. Again, he got a longer ban, he got a 48-week ban.

"He still paid the fine himself and the following week that juvenile team are in a county final and he turned up, and he started again. So I think kind of broadening out from just the individual is something that needs to be looked at on the sanctions piece."

Refereeing recruitment has somewhat surprisingly increased, but the retention of those referees after year two or three is where the challenge lies.

Coldrick had some advice for those future custodians of the game.

"I started when I was 16/17 and there were tough times but I really wanted to make it to the top," said Coldrick.

"The important thing is getting a good support team behind you. So that's your umpires for a start, but also within your county, the buddying up with a senior [referee], someone that you can actually talk to when those tough days do come, and how to get over them, but also to report abuse, if there is abuse then leave it to the powers that be once you've done that job.

"It is an enjoyable pastime. Yes, of course, you'd like to be the player on what used to be the third Sunday in September, but for me the next best thing is actually being a referee."

Furze99

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119759297#Comment_119759297

This is mad stuff altogether by the GAA. After all the palaver over recent events and several suggestions that the max 96 week ban should be a lifetime ban. We have this, a max 96 week ban being reduced to 2 games.

It's a complete joke at this stage. I would hope the Minister for Sport here will take the same line as he did with the boxers. Get your house in order or face substantial funding cuts.

evolvingtipperary101

Castlebar Mitchels have submitted a 'Reported Allegation of Abuse Form' to the Mayo County Board, Connacht GAA, Croke Park and Tusla, believing there are "reasonable grounds for concern relating to child abuse" following an incident at an Under-17 club fixture.

The Mayo semi-final encounter against Westport was abandoned due to an altercation on the pitch when an adult entered the field of play.

A 96-week ban was handed out to the adult and Castlebar were awarded the victory, however, upon appeal, the ban was reduced to two games, while Westport were reinstated into the competition.

The Castlebar club said that they were disappointed with the decision and have now decided to take the matter further believing that there are 'reasonable grounds for concern relating to child abuse'.

Mitchels have also called on Croke Park to review their current processes to "adequately protect underage players".

A statement from Castlebar Mitchels read: "Following an incident at a recent Under-17 club football semi-final, Castlebar Mitchels believe that there were reasonable grounds for concern relating to child abuse. Castlebar Mitchels prepared a 'Reported Allegation of Abuse Form' and this has been submitted to the Mayo County Board, Connacht GAA, Croke Park and TUSLA.

"Mayo County Board CCC fined Westport €1000, the Westport official who entered the field received a 96-week ban and the club was removed from the competition.

"Westport appealed this decision to the Appeals Hearing Mayo GAA and following on from the appeal it was announced that they have been reinstated to the competition and the 96-week ban has been reduced to two games.

"Castlebar Mitchels is very disappointed with the recent appeal findings and believe that this is not in keeping with the best interests of child-welfare.

"The club has requested that Mayo GAA does not resume the Under 17A Championship until all investigations are completed.

"The club also requests that Croke Park and the County Board review their current processes and regulations so that they adequately protect underage players and that if an incident like this happens again that it is harshly dealt with."

Mayo GAA confirmed the appeal decision when contacted by RTÉ Sport but had no further comment to make.

Castlebar Mitchels report alleged child abuse to Tusla (rte.ie)

Danzy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119679663#Comment_119679663

If there is even one person who would ref for the money I'd be amazed.

If you are reffing for money, 40 quid a game, you have big problems in life.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769374#Comment_119769374

Jaysus..... thats messy !!!

I know you 'have to' stand by/up for your club men, but in the face of this, surely you have to say , for the good of the club we cannot stand by you, take your (deserved/lenient?) punishment , and leave us alone.....

Morris Garren

'Unhinged lunatics' was the phrase I used above. Chickens are absolutely running home to roost it seems

I did hear former Uachtarian Sean Kelly MEP mention that this issue of violence is taken seriously at a high level but is rife at club level. Recent events have a disturbing correlation with 1990s Catholic Ireland-' a huge comeuppance might be round the corner for the GAA if this continues

athlone99

Ah lads the whataboutery with regards to Soccer is unreal. Own it, that theres a problem in the GAA, far worse than Soccer. I played soccer and GAA to 18 and still play soccer now. Far more abuse and shouting in the underage GAA games than there ever was in soccer. Adult soccer can be quite bad towards referees and i'm no angel myself but ive never seen a referee attacked or threatened. The reason its been highlighted in the media regarding underage GAA games is because its happening at underage GAA games. If it was happening at Soccer games it would be in the media in a heartbeat.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769416#Comment_119769416

In my time in the middle there was 3-4 members of our Referee Society that were in it just for the money -doing 4 games every weekend, college games during the week, and some of the 'Nightowls' (remember those!) leagues games at night also, as well as their dole.

They made no excuses about it - As many games as they could, sail through them, try not get into any controversy in the game and onto the next one.

evolvingtipperary101

This year’s All-Ireland senior football final referee Seán Hurson believes match officials have become dehumanised by team supporters.

As the GAA this weekend organises “Respect the Referee” events at senior county finals, the Tyrone man feels they are looked on differently to others contributing to games.

Hurson says of this weekend: “I think it’s a case of trying to establish what the role of the referee is within the association but also at grassroots level so we can turn around and be a valued member and contribute to what is a fantastic sport but also that we are part of it and we are volunteers.

“We’re human and we have families. People forget that and see the man in the black jersey as someone who has nothing to do with the association. So, it’s about ‘we all belong’ and that’s what our perspective is. We want everyone to reset and evaluate what the role of the referee is within the association.

“I would feel that the supporters are there to support their team and if a decision goes against their team, the referee is sometimes held responsible. They may not know the rules and that lack of education among supporters, players and coaches is probably a problem that goes to the heart of some of the abuse our referees are getting at the minute.” 

Hurson senses the young referees’ frailties are being preyed on by coaches. 

“I think when you’re starting out refereeing, everybody’s trying to find a weakness and they’re trying to gain a benefit to their team so coaches and players are focusing on what they can get away with.

“The culture is there: how can we get better at beating the opposition? Sometimes they reflect on weaknesses or perceived weaknesses of the referee and unfortunately that’s what’s happening with our coaches.

“They’re focusing on the referee’s performance rather than on their own players and I would see from reading articles that lack of knowledge of the rules is there, which is why coaches don’t always understand why decisions are made. It’s ‘win at all costs’ regardless of who they abuse at times or insult or whatever.” 

The Galbally Pearses man says verbal abuse aimed at him or his team occurs as common as every second or third game but often the perpetrators can’t look at him afterwards. 

“I meet people on the street and they would have to drop their head because they have said something to you in a game and are embarrassed.” 

He also spoke of the problems fledgling referees have at club level such as having to work with partisan sideline officials. 

“When you rock up to a Division 3 club game, you’re on your own in a lot of cases, especially at juvenile level.

“A simple line ball that goes out and you have a linesman from the home club who decides to go one way and we as referees adjudicate it to go the other way and already there’s confrontation and the abuse may start and it may antagonise some of the opposing players and that’s where it starts.”

'We’re human and we have families' - refs not seen as part of Association (irishexaminer.com)

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119777391#Comment_119777391

“When you rock up to a Division 3 club game, you’re on your own in a lot of cases, especially at juvenile level."

This. 😏

This tells you what the GAA thinks of its own officials.

There seems to be no mentoring, no monitoring, no assessing of refs.

Do the course -> Youre a ref now -> theres your fixtures , good luck.

I know the refs in our county were told that they were all to attend the intermediate/junior finals yesterday as part of the "respect the ref" day , as a thank you .... 😣

Arthurdaly

I've recently moved to Wicklow and attended a number of games over the past few years that our young lad was involved with. We were previously in Dublin, the matches were poorly attended so not many parents on the sidelines and never witnessed any issues.

Different story in Wicklow, the parents and adults that attended were angry, aggressive and foul mouthed. A number of brawls and incidents happened over the years (well publicized) with adults getting physical with refs, young teenage players and other supporters.

I enjoy watching the games but don't get too emotionally involved. On one occasion we were standing close to the opposition parents / supporters. We were verbally used abused by women practically frothing at the mouth and with fire in their eyes. The level of abuse thrown at the referee, opposing players and as we experienced opposing supporters was ridiculous. I laughed at the angry women because it almost felt like a panto and over the top but there was real menace and anger.

From my experience the issue it is the parents, mentors and other adults around the game. The kids want to play sports and have a good time but you have parents imposing their aggression, anger and win at all costs attitude. It's a game ffs and you have overweight mentors trying to relive their youth through the teams.

Young lad loves it but I would be encouraging him to other sports.

TheWonderLlama

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119769293#Comment_119769293

Threatening the GAA with funding cuts would be career suicide for any politician.

evolvingtipperary101

De La Salle College 1-17 

Gaelcholáiste Mhuire an Mhainistir Thuaidh 1-8 

Ugly scenes on the sideline marred Wednesday's Harty Cup clash between De La Salle College and Gaelcholáiste Mhuire an Mhainistir Thuaidh in Dungarvan.

With eight minutes left, a scuffle broke out involving mentors, players and substitutes from both sides. One player required attention for a head injury.

Referee Thomas Walsh then called all 30 players into the middle of the field and pleaded with them to keep their discipline. 

"Please play the game of hurling for the last 10 minutes," he said. Those 10 minutes passed off without incident and the game was completed.

Walsh didn't have any linesmen or umpires to assist him for this game. The Waterford whistler had to deal with several off-the-ball incidents. He issued six yellow cards and a red and moved the ball forward four times for dissent.