Abuse of Referees

average_runner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119583601#Comment_119583601

Depends on your club. I know the refs from our club for under age are all members of current teams so train at least twice a week, so fitness is there.

They attend courses every year also.

I will always talk to the ref at the start of the game, see what are they looking for on the pitch and what they want to call up on, this is all under age.

Will always thk the ref and if any of the kids back answer they are withdrawn.

Leroy42

The problem of abuse is not connected with poor refs. It stems from a complete lack of respect such that some people think that they are entitled to abuse a ref based on their own opinions.

I had an incident recently where something happened off the ball when I was at the other end of the pitch. The mentor was going crazy demanding I do something, even though I couldn't have seen anything. And that incident then carried through the rest of the game as they were convinced I was against them, with every free given against them, or not given against the other team - in their opinion - just further proof I was somehow out to get their team. No matter what I said or did that mentor was never going to be happy.

Like in any walk of life, there are good and bad. Yes, some refs hardly move, come across as completely disinterested and/or don't take any feedback. But the answer to that is that both sides will suffer the same and it's just something to deal with. By all means write to the ref coordinator to point out the issues, but shouting or physically assaulting the ref is not the answer.

Players, and mentors, need to get used to the idea that refs are different and approach games differently. We all want the best ref in charge of all our games, but that isn't possible. You have to learn to play with what you are faced with. Losing your rag is a reflection on the person rather than the ref.

On the support issue, I agree. All newer refs should be accompanied to their first few games. Not to gauge their performance, although of course pointers should be made, as support to help if something crops up. Rather than letting some new ref be confronted by an irate mentor, the senior ref deals with the issue. That would help give confidence to the new ref. But requires additional resources.

ChippingSodbury

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119595693#Comment_119595693

I would concur that abuse is never the answer. I would still come back to my point that respect is a two way street. Please understand that I am not anti-ref. I would love to see the abuse stop. My tuppence worth is just that solution depends on both sides.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119595877#Comment_119595877

Your putting blame on officials. Quite human if constantly getting unfair flack to deal with that in a way some may deem disrespectful or arrogance.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119595877#Comment_119595877

Exactly as I see it and both are certainly connected.

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119596309#Comment_119596309

They are only connected in as much as they are used as an excuse for abusing the ref.

But it isn't really. Do you honestly believe that a bad call is reason enough to physically attack another person?

Or that by constant abuse of a ref that the situation will somehow improve?

100% have more training, more support, more supervisors and assistants.

But professional soccer has all that and still the refs get abuse. So nothing will ever be enough. Its the peoples attitude that is the problem.

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597372#Comment_119597372

I have never said that a bad call is an excuse to assault a referee. Please show me where I have??

What I said is that bad calls by poor referees can cause anger and anger can lead to assaults. That’s the connection.

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119566547#Comment_119566547

this ‘cancer’ in the game can only be fixed at grass roots level. Underage Coaches and mentors need to instil it into underage players that no matter what the ref blows for, no matter how unfair it seems they just have to accept the free/card and walk away/play on and coaches/mentors also need to shut their big mouths on the side line, no mouthing to side line officials or refs during the game or at half time or after the game etc.

However controlling the mouthy yobs/ ‘fans’ in the terraces/stands who roar abuse is another story and I don’t think there is any easy solution as it’s a societal thing…..we all need to look at ourselves our behaviour towards officials and what example we set for the underage players/children….if decent/well behaved fans get stuck into them about their behaviour it may just end up with more violence against them…….very difficult to know best approach but starting with the underage and working up from there with the hope that the children will follow on as adults and resist the temptation to abuse/assault refs/linesmen etc…..after a generation or two the ‘GAH’ may catch up / be in a par with how rugby respects its on field officials…?

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119595691#Comment_119595691

Thanks, is your club in Dublin or outside?

rpurfield

I reffed three games in the days after the Roscommon incident and the response to it from mentors and teams is certainly varied. In the first one (underage game), I got one shout from the line about steps, it was literally the mentor shouting steps and nothing else, and he subsequently apologised. To be fair to him he really didn't need to for that. The second one (also underage) was quiet on the line too apart from the subs getting excited. The final one was an adult match and one team in particular never stopped at me for the whole game. I personally don't mind it but it would get to someone that is maybe less experienced. It certainly needs to come from mentors at underage to stamp out the roaring and shouting over every call.

As regards refs not being fit etc,we done a bleep test before championship and most of the lads got excellent scores. I know other lads, like me, do plenty of work at knowing the rules, keeping fit and so on. Granted in my county there is a few older lads that still referee but they mostly do the younger underage games and without them games would fall away. Anyone on here pointing the finger at referees for abuse needs to cop on to be honest. Like anything in life you may get a mixed bag but no one in my experience goes out to make a mistake on purpose, and the vast majority of lads put serious effort into the role.

evolvingtipperary101

No signs of this letting up. It's not shocking because there's a culture of it in the GAA.

It's just another example of the mountain and inevitable crisis the GAA will have to face on this. (I can see a ref strike on a major weekend in the future)

Kerry GAA probes abuse of Under 11 hurling referee

Referee abandoned game between Abbeydorney and Ballyduff - even though scores weren't even being kept in the game

An investigation is underway in Kerry after an Under 11 hurling match – operating under ‘Silent Sideline’ and ‘No score-keeping’ guidelines – was abandoned by the referee in the first half because of unacceptable abuse from the sideline.

Kerry GAA’s Coiste na nÓg CCC will examine the referee’s report from the game last Wednesday in Abbeydorney between Abbeydorney and Ballyduff where the official in question called a halt to proceedings little more than ten minutes into the game.

No scores are kept at Under 11 hurling games in Kerry and are played with silent sidelines’ – i.e. where there is no shouting or remonstrating permitted from mentors. The alleged offender in this instance is believed to be a GAA officer in North Kerry.

People in attendance say that one person, in particular, was remonstrating strongly with the referee from an early stage of the game and the official made the decision after little more than ten minutes to walk off the field. It is understood that a mentor from each side refereed a half to ensure that the ‘game’ was played out for the sake of the children involved.

The Referees’ committee in Kerry has already met to co-ordinate its approach to abuse from sidelines, which they argue, shows little sign of abating.

There are also reports that a Kerry Barrett Cup (Junior Football Cup) game in Reenard between the home team and Churchill was also brought to a premature conclusion at the weekend due to abuse towards the referee.

AndrewJRenko

Does 'silent sideline' mean that a parent or mentor can't open their mouth during a game? Seems a bit bizarre....

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119604902#Comment_119604902

They've been around a few years.

Rules are simple:

No coaching from anyone on the sidelines.

One designated coach may give individual instructions when play is stopped.

No encroachment onto the field of play by anyone other than players and referee.

Parents/Supporters may applaud positive play.

Simply put, “Let Them Play”. A chance for the kids to just play without adult interference. All parents and coaches have the best intentions when they instruct kids from the sideline during matches. However, sometimes all the coaching/instructing can get overwhelming for the children. Coach says one thing, Mam or Dad says a different thing. Who should they listen to? Why are they spending a lot of the match looking at an adult giving them instructions?

“Silent Sidelines” operate in Go Games matches and blitzes.

What do we expect this will do?

1. Allow the child to just play the game as they see it. Who cares if they make mistakes, they will learn from it themselves.

2. Children get a chance to concentrate on the game and find their own solutions.

3. Allows the children to communicate with each other and make team decisions themselves.

Silent Sidelines has been used at youth sport worldwide and proved successful. This is a chance for adults to see that children do not need to be constantly instructed on the field of play. It is a chance for adults to actually sit back and watch the games without worrying about what to say next. It is a chance for children to make decisions without worrying about what Coach/Parent might say. An environment free from criticism and critique.

We ask that all clubs, coaches, parents and supporters just #LetThemPlay

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119604902#Comment_119604902

Not bizarre at all. I know of two different fathers who used to stand on the sideline shouting abuse at their own underage sons. It eventually got to the point that one just stopped coming and the other if he did come would sit in his car for the game. Not sure if the club or team management ever said anything.

And before anyone mentions socio-economic stuff, one of them would be less well off while the other would be quite comfortable.

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119604980#Comment_119604980

It's a fantastic initiative that saves kids and refs from people who lose their minds at games.

Seth Brundle

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119605012#Comment_119605012

Oh I'm not disputing the idea. I've never seen it work though.

However, my post was more highlighting that shouting abuse towards kids is commonplace and in some cases comes from the kids own parents.

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119605043#Comment_119605043

That's true. Abuse is commonplace at underage games.

But anything like silent sidelines, that is trying to change a culture, could take anything from ten years to twenty-five.

Just to play devil's advocate, what happens to a player who has played under a successful silent sideline underage career and is then released to the lions at adult level? Will the impact be harder? But you'd hope that silent sidelines will change how crowds interact with refs and crowds.

AndrewJRenko

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119604980#Comment_119604980

i'd have thought the solution to this would be for mentors to have firm and repeated words with the two dads to tell them to STFU or shout supportive stuff. It seems a bit like the old 'punishing the whole class because of two bad boys' approach.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119604946#Comment_119604946

Thanks, that's very helpful. I hadn't come across it in my years on the sidelines, but maybe it came in a few years after mine had gone through. I can see the merits of it, though I can also see it might take away some of the sense of involvement for the parents, who are, in fairness, stakeholders in the whole thing too.

Seth Brundle

i'd have thought the solution to this would be for mentors to have firm and repeated words with the two dads to tell them to STFU or shout supportive stuff. It seems a bit like the old 'punishing the whole class because of two bad boys' approach.

In our club, it may have been said to them by the manager: I don't know (but both fathers no longer come to their sons games)

greenspurs

Is there a difference in shouting

"Ahh ref come on thats a free"

"steps"

Or the new one "Thats a throw, he/she threw it"

And

"you blind f***er"... " FFS Ref thats a free" etc ?

Personally i think there is .

Its starting to head towards theres no 'appealing' for a foul anymore, as now thats classed as abuse ?

irelandrover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119606154#Comment_119606154

With the amount that Irish people curse there is very little difference between

"Ahh ref come on thats a free" and " FFS Ref thats a free"

Which is a problem as different people have different standards of what's allowed.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119606174#Comment_119606174

Thats true.

When i reffed i had my own standard.

If a player said after what he thought was a foul said " Come on ref thats a free ffs" - that was ok

"F** off ref thats a free" that would be a caution as he was directing the "foul&abusive" language at me directly.

I dont see why some refs get so upset and start getting into confrontations with sidelines (in soccer and gaa) over appealing for a foul, as long as its not threatening and/or abusive.

Surely people are 'allowed' appeal for a free ? It goes on at all sports.

callaway92

Saw a decent bit of reffing at the weekend in a lads adult match in Limerick

Before the Goalkeeper for one of the teams pucked the ball out, a (I assume) scumbag playing for the opposition shouted ‘puck the ball out you fat fúck’

In fairness the ref pulled him aside and booked him - As an aside to it, instead of a puckout, a free-in from the half-way-line where he shouted from was given (and scored from)

Was delighted with it

Leroy42

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119606154#Comment_119606154

Yes, there is a difference. I have no issue with players or people on the sideline calling for a free or not a free. Doesn't bother me. They are entitled to their opinion, I have the facts n my side (yes sometimes my 'facts' might be wrong but I call it as I see it).

There will always be that. But that is very different to personal abuse. Calling you biased, a cheat, a disgrace, you're feffing sh1t, etc is not acceptable. .

I am happy to explain my decision to a player, and even have them question it. But not a running commentary of my calls or what they think of my performance. Not because it bothers me, but it creates an atmosphere in the game. There is a fine line. I tend to try to avoid an escalation, but sometimes it is clear that only direct action will have an impact. Normally a quick look at the person, a signal to stop is enough for most people as they just get a bit carried away and need to relax a bit.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119606744#Comment_119606744

Ditto.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119597420#Comment_119597420

the behaviour of an individual carrying out an assault is the cause of an assault

average_runner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119598501#Comment_119598501

Its in Dublin. Most of the refs for under age teams in Dublin are players from older squads. The ref for my boys match was from the club we played against and for the girls match, ref was from our club.

At that age its not competitive, kids might not believe that though :)

average_runner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119605074#Comment_119605074

Usually it would be brought to the clubs attention and they would raise it with the fathers.

That doesn't mean a mentor wouldn't say something but the mentor/manager is limited in what they can do.

callaway92

What has been the follow-up from the Roscommon incident?

County Board still investigating? Has the team that was involved played since? Has the Manager involved still been taking part in club duties?

ChippingSodbury

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119606744#Comment_119606744

I think this is absolutely spot on and what I expect from a ref. I don't expect you to be correct all of the time either (as I know I'm definitely not!) but just to come across as a reasonable and fair adjudicator.

You're welcome to come and referee games in my county at any time 😉