Abuse of Referees

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119680327#Comment_119680327

and good luck trying to get you to back up your idea.......

But , just carry on blaming the refs .....

evolvingtipperary101

A rules test for members seeking to be allowed back into the organisation having abused an official?

O'Neill suggests 'rules test' for banned GAA members (rte.ie)

Flinty997

A test eh...

https://youtu.be/_13Po-afdhQ

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119680412#Comment_119680412

Paying more to try incentivise people to ref isnt the right way to get more people refereeing. Improving their coaching, training, and how coaches and players act towards officials will get more people to take up the whistle.

Every ref has their level. Saying they cant take every tom dick and harry is nonsense and is part of the problem. Everyone who volunteers their time and wants to commit to being a match official should be allowed to referee. but this is where good coaching, mentoring and selection etc comes into play.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119682858#Comment_119682858

Your disregard for refs is fairly apparent .... a pity you cant back up your argument re. 'mechanism for reporting consistently bad refs' though.

Its easier to just throw out one liners though than points that make sense i suppose..

Flinty997

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119683204#Comment_119683204

166,428 views of that video. Struck a chord with many anyhow.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119704302#Comment_119704302

because it is funny...

Its satirical... its not a documentary !

Any chance of discussion on your suggestion?

Flinty997

They didn't pull it out of thin air that's for sure.

Flinty997

Might be of interest.

https://www.joe.ie/sport/pic-an-amazing-referees-report-from-a-heated-under-16-gaa-match-back-in-1993-505706

Beechwoodspark

I’m involved actively in the GAA in various roles since the late 80s.

It sickens my stomach to see any sort of verbal or even worse physical abuse of referees.

I would still recoil from lifetime bans on ppl involved in abuse. I would give a long hefty ban but not an absolute lifetime ban with no chance of redemption.

Give someone hope they can change for the better and then rejoin our great organisation. That would be my thoughts.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119706627#Comment_119706627

Would you ever think of becoming a ref yourself?

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119707375#Comment_119707375

I agree with this but also see it from a different view point in that targetting individuals whether with a lifetime ban or a two year ban or whatever doesnt really address the systemic issue. I'd rather see clubs penalised, and I think the GAA also needs to lead in a positive way by putting rules in that protect refs, e.g. silent sidelines at underage or whatever.

CaboRoig

Got fairly thick with a ref myself this year. First time ever. Playing, coaching and doing admin in GAA for over 40 years now.

Lad arrived to club with just one umpire for a junior C league game and asked me if I'd umpire the other end. No bother says I. I've umpired quite a bit up to inter county level.

Halfway through the first half a random young fella wandered down to near the goals and started kicking a ball around with a younger pre-teen kid.

High ball comes in just to one side of the posts and keeper catches it. OK, it's my club's keeper. But he clearly catches it inside the line. I actually had a brilliant view of it. Next thing, the random young fella on the far side sticks up his hand and the ref gives a 45!

I actually almost lost it but thankfully didn't. I was doing the lad a favour. I wouldn't act the bollix when I'd be doing umpire. But even, then, I didn't abuse the guy. I questioned his decision, I questioned why he asked me to do umpire if he wasn't going to believe me and then I contented myself for the rest of the first half listening to the keeper and the random young fella call each other all the names under the sun!

evolvingtipperary101

Dublin camogie have sent a letter warning clubs that they face possible expulsion from tournaments should abuse of match officials continue.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119708432#Comment_119708432

Ah to be fair the Ref sees the hand go up and reacts almost on instinct there; thats all about the young lad acting the maggot in my book.

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119708460#Comment_119708460

Great that they showing a bit of leadership.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119708432#Comment_119708432

Similar happened my team at the weekend - county semi final...

Keeper saves the ball down low by the foot of the post, ball spins up high and goes out to the left ot the post.

The umpire , from the other club, was standing right beside the post , ducks out of the way , and then raises his hand to signal a point.

The 3 of us on the sideline were directly in line with it, and could see it went wide... We started off at yer man doing umpire...

We were telling the ref it was wide, (we had no problem with him at all) , and that the umpire was cheating...

The ref went in , spoke to him and gave the point... I spoke to the ref after and i told him we had no problem with him at all, but the umpire was a cheating bo!!ix , and hes known for it .........

That point took it to extra time ........

flasher0030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119725262#Comment_119725262

Hope ye won.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119725863#Comment_119725863

no. We didnt..

evolvingtipperary101

The GAA are organising a “Respect the Referee” weekend across October 22 and 23.

In the wake of referees being subjected to physical abuse in recent weeks, counties who organise senior finals on the days are being encouraged to celebrate match officials. The GAA are also recommending referees in the counties be invited to the games.

Asdfgh2020

I wonder has a player ‘remonstrating ‘ with a ref during a match ever succeeded in getting a decision over turned……if not then surely this is enough to demonstrate the absurdity of such ret@rded/imbecilic actions by players and mentors….

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740889#Comment_119740889

Surely a bit meaningless and a signal that they dont intend to do anything meaningful.....

dxhound2005

This sort of nonsense is going on everywhere. Just two stories from English soccer.

There will be no fixtures in the Merseyside Youth Football League this weekend.

A junior football league in Merseyside has cancelled all fixtures due to be played this coming weekend ‘following multiple incidents of inappropriate and threatening behaviour’ toward league and match officials.

The Merseyside Youth Football League, which is home to more than a hundred teams, ranging from under-7s through to under-17s, made the announcement on Saturday (October 8) that it will be taking the ‘drastic action’ after discussions with committee members and match officials.

'That lump there will be there for the rest of my life': Dave Bradshaw talked about the assault he endured, as Claire Hannah reports

Bans were given to 380 players and coaches for attacking and threatening referees and match officials in English grassroots football last season, according to a damning Football Association (FA) report.

The report for 2021-22 recorded a significant catalogue of "toxic behaviour" against officials in youth and adult football.

The report comes in the wake of an attack on a highly experienced referee from Wigan on Sunday 2 October and as a charity head slams the report as "unrepresentative of the scale of the issue".

Dave Bradshaw was left concussed and broke several bones while officiating a Remembrance Cup fixture between Platt Bridge and Wigan Rose.

The attack happened after he gave a player a red card and has prompted the referee to say "it is only a matter of time before someone is killed".

Dave said: "This is just the tip of the edge, it's getting worse.

"I hope I'm wrong but I hope a referee doesn't get murdered because of what happens on a football pitch.

"You've got your premier league players and pundits who are picking up on every single little decision a referee makes and being scrutinised. A referee can make one mistake and they're the worst ref on the planet."

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741333#Comment_119741333

Its a fair point - a lot of the time its really just venting. Dont forget also the fans. the parents and everyone else who basically isnt the ref. Its far from just players and mentors.

callaway92

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741333#Comment_119741333

An Intercounty Team I was involved with before, one of the coaches specifically said at half-time (when we were 6 or 7 points up: 'I think we need to start getting at the ref in the 2nd half just to start getting some of the 50/50 decisions'

It's things like that that don't help, when you're trying to almost intimidate the ref into giving you future decisions

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741564#Comment_119741564

How can any mentor/player who mouths off to / abuses officials, expect to get decisions in their favour….if the ref has any ‘balls’ it will have the opposite effect……it’s stupid macho talk that is a blight on the games. Adults and mentors need to take a good look at themselves in the mirror too as it is them who pass this ‘cancer’ on to the younger players and the whole cycle continues…😡😡

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741333#Comment_119741333

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119725863#Comment_119725863

I was speaking with the ref after the semi final about the incident , and he said he gave us 2 soft frees to even it up !

When i was reffing , the more a team or its management 'got onto me' the less likely it was that they were going to get a 50-50 decision.

And i reffed with other refs that would crumble under that kind of pressure and give whoever shouted loudest and longest got the decisions....

Also, when i started out , one of the older refs told me " if you know he did it, but didnt see it, remember that for the next time you are reffing him" 😁

Leroy42

The question was asked whether remonstrating with a ref ever succeeded. I doubt it, but the point is to draw the ref's attention and maybe get favourable decisions in the future. Nobody really expects the current free to be overturned.

But refs are human, and if they get pushback, they will naturally question themselves. Did I get it wrong? Did I miss the steps? A ref then starts to question themselves and when a decision is to be made the past 'wrong' decision will naturally play its part. They won't want to make a mistake again.

Refs are doing their best to be fair, they rarely (if ever) go out to favour one team. But everyone makes mistakes, and in many of the calls, particularly in GAA where the tackle is so open to interpretation, it is not a mistake as such, more an interpretation.

On the other side, letting your annoyance with the management team influence your decision-making is also wrong. There is a bias there now as well. That is totally understandable, but as a ref, you have to put that aside.

Another ref said it best the other day to me. Following the Roscommon incident, they now go to the two mentor teams and state very clearly that no questioning of calls, or indeed claims for frees, will be accepted. That he will ref the game to the best of his ability, he is confident in that ability, and they need to focus on their team and leave the refereeing to him.

Everyone knows where they stand, the mentors are told to pass on the message to the players and off we go.

flasher0030

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119742384#Comment_119742384

On your last sentence - I got first hand experience of that a few weeks ago. Defender was all over me in a match. Pulling at the jersey the entire time. Acting the maggot. It was junior match, so no sideline officials or umpires. Only the ref. I swung back and caught him in the month. And obviously made sure ref wasn't watching. The gurrier went down and the blood started coming from his mouth. When the dust settled, the ref called me over and said that he didn't see any incident, but that I was a marked man. From there to the end of the game, ref did his best to have a go at me. Gave a free against me for everything - any little contact in a tackle, overcarrying. Even said he would give me a yellow card for diving when I was pushed in the back.

Obviously I shouldn't have elbowed the guy, but you reap what you sow in his case. I warned him that I would do it if he did it one more time. And he did!

tayto lover

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119741766#Comment_119741766

Well if a referee does what you suggest and give the decisions to the opposition then it doesn't say much for him either. The game should be refereed fairly and according to the rules at all times.

walshb

Personally what I find the most damaging is these commentators and pundits sitting back and not supporting and backing referees when they are abused/challenged/accosted during the course of their duties.

It’s pervasive in other sports, too. Their silence, as well as excusing, facilitates and encourages toerag behaviour against officials.

PARlance

"I wouldn't be reffing at this level and you wouldn't be playing at this level if either of us were good enough not to make stupid mistakes" 🤣

That brutal bit of honesty was delivered to me (in a joking way) by a ref once and stuck with me.

Not sure what it adds to the debate but this thread reminded me of that interaction.

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119742852#Comment_119742852

"Personally what I find the most damaging is these commentators and pundits sitting back and not supporting and backing referees "

A lot of these 'pundits/commentators/reporters/analysts' are very guilty of contributing to ref abuse also.

How many times have lads on commentary derided a refs performance, and supporters use that as fuel added to their own sense of injustice..

And as for Sly Spurts and their 30 mins dedicated to going through incidences in games - "Ref Watch " ... fcuk off will yee ......

walshb

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119743393#Comment_119743393

Spot on...

One that really stuck out to me recently was the disgraceful silence and couldn't care less attitude on commentary at the men's Wimbledon final when that toerag, Kyrgios spent the whole match arguing and antagonizing the umpire.

evolvingtipperary101

Wexford GAA have handed down the maximum 96-week suspension on the club mentor involved in an assault on referee Michael Lannigan and an umpire following a Junior A club football championship game.

evolvingtipperary101

GAA announce plans for a Respect the Referee Day - YouTube

evolvingtipperary101

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p33pXhFxsnI

...

walshb

96 week ban. Great..

have AGS investigated and decided to press charges?

evolvingtipperary101

Gardaí are investigating an incident in which a young boy was allegedly grabbed by the throat by an adult man during an U-9s hurling blitz in Co Tipperary on Saturday.

The boy was allegedly assaulted on the pitch while he was taking part in the blitz at Dr Morris Park, in Thurles, in front of his shocked mother and other parents.

Jonathan Cullen, a spokesman for the Tipperary GAA board, said his young son was taking part in the same event by Munster GAA. He said the alleged behaviour was “not something we would condone.”

“It’s not acceptable. It’s totally not what the GAA is supposed to be about.

"An under-nine hurling blitz should be an enjoyable day out,” he said.

“Obviously from a GAA point of view, we wouldn’t allow any inappropriate behaviour by an adult towards a juvenile,” he told the Irish Independent.

He said the boy did not require any medical attention.

“Obviously he was shaken which is understandable.”

Gardaí confirmed they are investigating the incident.

“Gardaí at Thurles were alerted shortly after 1pm on Saturday, October, 15, 2022, following an incident of alleged assault at a children's sports event in Thurles.

"Enquires in to the matter are ongoing. As the incident involves young persons An Garda Síochána will not be commenting further at this time,” the Garda Press Office said in a statement.

Officials from Munster GAA were not immediately available for comment on Sunday night.

Asdfgh2020

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119742827#Comment_119742827

I’m not for a second saying that a ref doesn’t apply the rules fairly…..however ‘mouthing off’/verbal abuse towards a ref after a decision/free is awarded should result in the free being brought forward or moved to a more favourable position for scoring plus cards being dished out to played or mentors

Morris Garren

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119754265#Comment_119754265

Assaulting under 9s now? (Alleged) Sounds like the GAA has become a home for unhinged adult lunatics. If the GAA from the very top don't make this their number 1 priority the slippery slope into disrepute is inevitable. Reap what you sow, all ye Davy Fitzgerald fans

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119754556#Comment_119754556

I think its happened to some degree already - ironically, I would feel underage soccer far worse than GAA when it comes to sideline aggression - however GAA & Refs has now become a media thing, and every story will be picked up on. They've let it get out of control, which probably in fairness is a good thing because the spectre of significant reputational damage may actually make them do something about it...

average_runner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119754730#Comment_119754730

Under age soccer is more aggressive from the side line for sure, couldn't believe how bad it was when the young lad started playing, basically calling for blood at times.

I have mentored in over 50 under age matches in gaa and never heard a bad word from the mentors or the parents on the side line. Thank god for that

Tombo2001

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119755908#Comment_119755908

I would be exactly the same, and done a lot more than 50 matches..... but the way the media presents it is that GAA mentors are unhinged, in general.

Once in a blue moon you see some loonhead on the sideline. Thats it really.

It is difficult however - when you do come across them - to know how to handle it. Because they starting point is dealing with someone who is aggressive to begin with.

But as mentioned, it really doesnt happen often, my bigger issue as a mentor is getting the kids to show respect to the ref.

On the other hand, I fully buy into the notion that the GAA does nothing material to foster respect towards referees.

average_runner

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119756119#Comment_119756119

While it doesn't happen often, the gaa should act very heavily on it.

We had no issues with the refs but we are still under 12, if any of our lads say anything to the ref, they are taken off. Sure the refs are only teenagers doing us a favour.

evolvingtipperary101

A well-known North Tipp bar owner (former senior club hurler) told me, with a straight face, yesterday, that the Roscommon ref who was assaulted came out of hospital and told people that he just fainted and was never assaulted. All I could do was just look at him.

That's the kind of delusion you're up against. GAA heads who just want to believe it's all a big misunderstanding and everything is rosy in the garden. It's just a big media conspiracy. Our own would never do such things. Collective madness.

big_drive

Word around on the u9 juvenile blitz seems to be no child was actually grabbed by throat. But pulled away by the arm as they were striking another child with the hurley and the adult ran in to stop it continuing. Whether it's right, wrong or otherwise it's a bit different to the online article

Morris Garren

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757159#Comment_119757159

And is that from the GAA 'its all just the meeja' propaganda department ?

That's the equivalent of saying ' well I heard from a lad on the street' etc etc, sure it must be true

greenspurs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119757159#Comment_119757159

But, just like the media/social media warriors that went bonkers over the teacher that said girls wearing leggings was too provocative ,(when it was proven that that was false/lies) the truth (if what you say is true) wont get the same outcry that someone pulling a u9 off the pitch by a throat will .......

PARlance

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119670751#Comment_119670751

An update on this and a general example of how the disciplinary/appeals process is a bit of a farce.

The team were originally kicked out as a result of the mentor's actions, a 96 week ban handed to the mentor and a fine for the club.

On appeal, the team was reinstated and the mentor's ban reduced to 2 weeks.