Ireland running out of accommodation for Ukrainian refugees due to surge in non-Ukrainian refugees?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119956042#Comment_119956042

It's not just the far right incidentally. I was reading a good article by an academic last weekend about how far left Irish republicans are getting in the whole anti-immigration thing and he was basing this on actually attending the East Wall protests to see what was going on. These would be your pro-Gaza/Palestine, anti-Israel, anti-NATO, anti-US etc people. You would think being left wing and yet anti-migrant and anti-refugee are a total contradiction but I suppose they can square anything in their own heads.

eggy81

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119956233#Comment_119956233

Mad when it’s all put in front of you like that.

Star Bingo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119956257#Comment_119956257

Very.

TomTomTim

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119956246#Comment_119956246

You would think being left wing and yet anti-migrant and anti-refugee are a total contradiction

How so? It was once not so uncommon for socialists to be against immigration as it harmed workers by making the market even more competitive which reduced wages. Even old Bernie Sanders was once against endless immigration before it became a leftist taboo.

Considering where we are too, not too far from breaking point, every reasonable person should be arguing for a reduction or better management, no matter where they sit on the political spectrum.

Jarhead_Tendler

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119955348#Comment_119955348

Maybe its the cabin crew that are dumping the "refugees" documents and not the refugees themselves.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119956233#Comment_119956233

What is it with the invocation of 1984 as though it is some clever intellectual concept? It’s invocation amounts to propaganda, the very thing the book was making a criticism of, and it’s not the first time it’s been used by anti-Government or anti-establishment sorts either, who generally identify themselves as leftists… when it suits their purposes, much like the author of 1984 himself who was born in India, educated at Eton, and detested the working class of Northern England -

He was born Eric Blair in 1903 in India to a colonial officer involved in one of the murkiest trades of the British Empire: the export of opium to China. He was educated at English public schools, ending at Eton, the bastion of the establishment. Uninterested in university, he joined the colonial police and spent five years in Burma (now Myanmar), before resigning his position in 1927. At this point, he described himself as a ‘Tory Anarchist’. Then began the long and tortured process of turning Eric Blair into the author George Orwell. He struggled to write novels in the realist mode, just as experimental modernism was at its peak. He rejected all the trappings of his class, tramping across Europe, exploring the worlds of the urban poor and publishing the piece of reportage, Down and Out in Paris and London (1933), experiences that were all shaped by the catastrophic economic crash of 1929. As a result of this journalistic account, he was commissioned by Victor Gollancz to explore poverty in northern England, which resulted in The Road to Wigan Pier(1936). Gollancz objected both to Orwell’s visceral disgust at the working classes, but also to the lampooning of the well-meaning, middle-class socialists who earnestly tried to foster revolutionary consciousness, denouncing ‘every fruit-juice drinker, nudist, sandal-wearer, sex-maniac, Quaker, Nature Cure quack, pacifist and feminist in England’. Some of this disdain for the ‘proles’ remains evident in Nineteen Eighty-Four. Yet in 1936, Orwell was committed enough to socialism to join the idealists volunteering to fight the fascists in the Spanish Civil War. In what was a formative and crucial experience, Orwell did not join the communist International Brigade, but fought with the POUM, the Worker’s Party of Marxist Unification, which followed the thought of the Russian revolutionary Leon Trotsky. Orwell was witness to the violent splits of the Marxist left: the willingness of the communists to put the crushing of their Trotskyite rivals above a unified front to defeat the fascists. Badly wounded, Orwell left Spain thoroughly disillusioned.

https://www.bl.uk/20th-century-literature/articles/nineteen-eighty-four-and-the-politics-of-dystopia#footnote3

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119956257#Comment_119956257

Yup, people are beginning to join the dots despite what all the main parties and rte,newspapers etc are pushing.

A poll in the Indo today had immigration as the 5th most important issue facing Ireland. 50% more people mentioned it since the last poll. Housing was first, I wonder how many people knew we had issued 200k pps numbers to immigrants this year, not many I reckon.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119956856#Comment_119956856

This poll?

The cost-of-living and housing crises remain the two most important priorities that voters believe need to be dealt with, with 73pc identifying the cost of living (up 10pc in a month) and 52pc identifying housing (up one).

A distant third is healthcare at 17pc, while just 11pc of voters identified climate change as among the two most important priorities, with the war in Ukraine identified by 4pc and immigration identified by 7pc.

https://m.independent.ie/irish-news/sunday-independent-poll-sinn-fein-remains-the-most-popular-party-in-the-country-as-coalition-parties-see-drop-41959162.html

eggy81

Housing and cost of living are so big that they will overide the other concerns even for some of us who believe there is a migration crisis. It’ll probably slowly grow year on year if the same policy’s continue.

Wibbs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119956233#Comment_119956233

And that's the biggest problem. We don't have a choice as an electorate. All the parties no matter their other policies all sing from the exact same hymn sheet, as does the media. Look at the protest in Fermoy. Written as a happy clappy piece saying there were hundreds there to support the "refugees" when the accompanying photos showed nothing like "hundreds", more like 60 odd, and I'd be willing to bet a fair sum that a fair number not from the area were bussed in to make up those numbers. Compare that to the same reporting of the East Wall protest. Small number, Far Right rabble rousers bussed in, talk of those against the protests being drowned out, talk of "women and children" when this didn't reflect the reality either. One group is a mob(working class doleheads for the win) the other is a group of concerned citizens. It's all transparently biased reporting. Not what good journalism is. It's too damned like what passed for journalism when the Church pulled the strings of power.

And no the NP and fringe morons like that are not a choice and nobody votes for them, save for in the the fevered imaginations of those who are convinced the far right boogyman is real and coming to get us. Now if a few of the gombeenmen and women from the main parties who otherwise went with the general flow on populist policies were to come out and talk about it, I'd bet the farm they'd get more votes. Is there a far right in Ireland worth talking about? No. Is there a centre right, oh yes there is. QV the Repeal and SSM votes. We won that one, pats on back all around, but forgot that over a third of Irish people didn't want those changes to pass. Look how quickly that eejit Casey went from botom of the heap to second in the presidential race on the back of a negative comment about Travellers. The jus soli vote was one of the highest in the history of the state(3rd highest IIRC).

A Times survey was mentioned above. There was one at the start of the Ukrainian refugee crisis too, an actual plain as the nose on one's face real crisis with millions of men women and children fleeing the country and overwhelmingly the latter as is the case with pretty much all true refugee crises. The result? The Times celebrated that 50% would give a room to Ukrainians fleeing. If they had the room. That's a bit of a caveat. But no matter, they glossed over the obvious basic maths point that 50% wouldn't, and as I say that about genuine people fleeing an actual bloody conflict beamed into our tellies and feeds on a daily basis. Now ask the same about Georgians, Albanians, Romanians, Africans, Middle Easterners not fleeing, people ripping up ID's etc. Oh I doubt that survey will be commissioned any time soon and we sure as hell won't be trusted with an actual vote on it. In fact even questioning it is painted as "far right" and "facsism".

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119956906#Comment_119956906

No, poll is in today's Indo. I assumed the previous poll was from last year, it's only since September!

Oh dear, the game is up jack methinks, no amount of fluff articles on rte n the Indo is gonna rescue it!

Jackiebt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119956939#Comment_119956939

RTE reported 70 people in Fermoy protesting against the Migrants and later reported 300 people showing solidarity with the migrants. You know it's bad when the only TD making any sense is Mattie McGrath, I'm just sorry he's not an option on my ballot paper.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119956944#Comment_119956944

I presume you’re not playing any games, you just can’t be arsed to link to the poll you’re talking about.

That’s why I went looking for it myself, but it’s a fair point - I wasn’t bothered to check the date of the article. I didn’t realise they actually run a monthly poll as I’m not a regular Indo reader!

enricoh

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119957057#Comment_119957057

It was in the actual paper today, dunno about online. Maybe someone can take a snap of it. Paper was in my ma's so can't do it now.

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119957157#Comment_119957157

Ahh no worries, I’ll take your word for it that the poll exists, what I was more interested in were the actual numbers in the poll when you mentioned that 50% more people mentioned it than the last poll. I wanted to see what the previous numbers were, given it was still only the fifth most important concern among the survey respondents.

I just don’t imagine immigration or refugees IS the great concern for Irish people that is being made out here is all, especially when I see from previous polls that it’s not even getting into double digits in terms of percentages, it just doesn’t seem like people are actually ‘joining the dots’ the way you’re suggesting, nor do they appear to care all that much about 200k PPS numbers being issued at any time really.

I do think that mainstream media in Ireland are trying to generate friction in the hope of getting a story out of it, but it just doesn’t seem to be happening for them. I’d say editors are more disappointed than anything else tbh.

Can't post the whole article so heres the relevant passages for the discussion:

"Indeed, politics never rests. As soon as one issue subsides, another emerges. This leads us to our second major development. The issue of immigra- tion has been creeping up the rankings in recent months. This month, 11pc believe it to be a top issue, up from 7pc last month and 5pc in October.

<snip>

https://www.independent.ie/opinion/comment/sunday-independent-poll-cost-of-living-and-the-thorny-matter-of-immigration-have-to-be-handled-with-care-42193654.html

Beasty

2 points

1. Site copyright rules permit 1 paragraph from copyrighted articles and a link must be provided.
2. Do not raise anything before the courts.

Any questions PM me - do not respond to this post in-thread

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119956268#Comment_119956268

"Breaking point" in what regard? I'm not at all clear how the lives of the members of various protest groups have been personally impacted by the arrival of refugees and asylum seekers. What personal contact does the average protester outside an asylum centre even have with refugees on a day to day basis?

keynes

Housing, cost of living and health are the top 3, but surely immigration exacerbates all of these issues. To that extent, these raw figures belie the significance of immigration. Having 80000 (or whatever, at this point) planted in a small island with already strained public services goes a long way to making said issues a lot worse. The majority of HIV diagnoses, for example, arise in immigrants. Is this not putting a strain on our health service?

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119957589#Comment_119957589

But there are only about 8000 refugees arriving a year and it was as low as 6000 a year for around six years up until 2017.

2022 has been an absolute freak year of course with the arrival of 65,000 Ukrainian refugees fleeing a European war, but I can't see how even that trumps things like the cost of living crisis and the housing crisis (which has 'not' been caused by refugees) in the public mind's eye.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119957589#Comment_119957589

It's like we are back to the 80s with the stigmatization of HIV.

HIV with the right drugs is now more manageable to Diabetes and a host of other life long diseases.

Of course that fact isn't scary enough to dribble out the diseased foreigners trope.

Atlantic Dawn

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119958015#Comment_119958015

Yes but the drugs to treat HIV cost a **** load of money, it's not lucky bag pricing.

Boggles

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119958025#Comment_119958025

That's a myth.

Because a lot of the drugs have now came off patent, it's never been cheaper.

Ireland in fact spends vast multiples more in HIV programmes world wide.

It's another strawman from the permanently irrational, diseased foreigners trope.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119945775#Comment_119945775

I dont really care that it happened to me at all. I can afford to go elsewhere. I care that it has happened to the hunfdreds of thousands who rely on the tourist industry actually. As should you tbh.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954790#Comment_119954790

While only 50% were granted leave to remain, the other 50%, aren't deported, and remain anyway.

There were no deportations during Covid.

Can you explain the change in demographics in places such as Longford or Balbriggan if relatively few people are granted leave to remain?

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119958266#Comment_119958266

You're missing the point entirely. My argument is that full hotel occupancy for 12 months of the year would bring in more local revenue and local employment in these Clare hotels than the "tourist industry". Many of these hotels actually close from Nov-Feb because there is no demand. It's the same all along the Atlantic coast in small towns.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119954879#Comment_119954879

Part of the plan I think was to supply lots of low cost workers for the service /tourist industry too. Thats the best explanation for the sales pitch with the generous benefits that were offered here when it became clear there was going to be a huge pool of people fleeing war looking for somewhere to stay.

The Irish government decided to "compete" for them. But as usual in their desire to not tell people what they were really at, they kept their cards close and checks and balances were not possibly. Now they have quite possibly killed the industries that they wanted these people to work in.

DownByTheGarden

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119958464#Comment_119958464

No you are not getting the point at all. There are a lot more than the hotel owners relying on so many different things generated by the tourist industry. That the owners of the hotel making a lot of money, is not going to trickle down to the rest of the tourism workers ion the area. I wont even try to explain why to you, because if you cant figure out why, then you dont want to figure out why tbh.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119958464#Comment_119958464

No, you’re missing it utterly. The only people who benefit are the hotel owners, who get all that income. Not as many hotel staff are needed, and local businesses suffer - you think asylum seekers are heading out to coffee shops in the mornings and local restaurants at night? Learning to surf and hiring cycles? I’m close to a small town on the work Atlantic way and see if first hand.

The refugee industry only benefits hotel and property owners (which is why it will continue, as the vested interests are raking it in)

One eyed Jack

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119958398#Comment_119958398

I can’t dursey, because I know feckall about either Longford or Balbriggan, let alone the demographics of either town.