Proposed club world cup

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395922#Comment_119395922

2 sell out games for each of the 6 Nations countries. 12 sell out games in 3 weeks is a lot better than playing 3 weeks of "minnows"

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119396948#Comment_119396948

We have that every year it's called the 6 Nations, the southern hemisphere have a similar competition.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397263#Comment_119397263

We have a closed off tournament for 6 countries who never or pretty much never play any other European countries outside of the 6 nations. Sport will never grow properly when that's the case. Its same in southern hemisphere. The top 10 cou tries don't play the countries ranked 11-20 near enough

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119398264#Comment_119398264

In most of those cases, those teams would struggle against an A side from 5 of the 6N countries. So having a development team play against them during the AI’s would probably be a better option for all concerned.

RAKM

When are people going to learn? Rugby is not soccer and never will be. Not every country has enough rugby to ever make them better. It will always be in the minority in these countries

I know Italy beat Wales this year but their record over 23 seasons of 6N is very poor and they are probably 6th best team in Europe. I know Georgia beat them recently but allowing promo/relegation would do nothing for the tournament and very little for the likes of Spn Rom etc.

I agree financially it may be a benefit to have Italy but replacing them with SA would be better. And yet I guess its unlikely Italy will stand down or be pushed. At most SA will be added.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119399063#Comment_119399063

I may be in a minority but I have zero interest in seeing SA in the 6 nations. They play horrible rugby (frankly Erasmus deserved a much longer ban for his behaviour in the Lions tour too, imo).

I don't think anyone really thinks promotion/relegation would work either, tbh, getting a Georgian side (or sides) into the URC would be more beneficial.

sprucemoose

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119400679#Comment_119400679

i hope youre in the majority on that one tbh, if SA join the 6N then the world cup becomes almost irrelevant.

promotion/relegation should work in theory but wouldnt in practice. italy having to go up and down every second year or so would kill any interest in the game there while none of the other countries are good enough to compete yet either. if scotland went down (which wouldnt surprise me) it probably would kill the game there since participation there seems to be dropping year on year.

increase the amount of games georgia etc, play in the summer/autumn and set up a tournament between the Rugby Europe Championship and the pacific island sides. maybe even increase the SH touring squad sizes in the autumn and have them play midweek/A games against spain/portugal/romania etc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397257#Comment_119397257

Obviously revenue is going to be the determining factor here but you have to take a longer term view too. The game is potentially dying in Scotland and in bad health in Wales, we need more teams and more markets. I don't think the game will actually die in either place but they are in a shocking condition.

Lost Ormond

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119398832#Comment_119398832

We dont do enough to help them. Some would struggle against an A side but as we dont even do that enough how will they ever grow and develop. Many top irish players can go an entire career of international rugby and play feck all games against european opposition outside of the 5 sides in the 6 nations. that isnt good enough to help grow the sport. these sides need more games against us, full strength as well as second/weakened sides otherwise how will they grow and how will the sport grow.

Buddy Bubs

Careful what you wish for lads, Ireland not very successful in sports with a global reach! With the odd exceptional individual athletes.

Let us have our rugby time in the sun!

stephen_n

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119401467#Comment_119401467

I’m not sure getting hockeyed by 6N teams would be good for their development. It hasn’t really improved Italy.

Itxa

Ireland is uniquely positioned to help grow the game and at the same time develop ourselves. Creating a B league underneath the URC isn’t shooting ourselves in the foot. What we need is to expand the game and create new markets and invest in doing so.

Who’s to say the B teams won’t splinter off into pro teams in their own right at some point? An outcome I’m sure the purists will dislike but if it means having 8 pro teams in our country it could bring about a stronger national side. There are all sorts of permutations from growth which can bring about good outcomes if managed properly.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119398264#Comment_119398264

Again not really much to do with the club world cup but what if we had more 5/6 Nations style tournaments in Europe, the winners of which would go on to a knockout against the 6 Nations winner for a pan-european trophy?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119402387#Comment_119402387

You mean a tournament between the non-6N teams, to play the winner of the 6N for a trophy? So, France against Georgia or someone like that?

What would the value of that be? The 6N winner would win the game by 40 points every single time.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119402167#Comment_119402167

Considering the Irish provinces are discussing an A league with South African sides, it's pretty weird we can't/won't fly the shorter distances to Belgium or Spain. Not that it's either/or, we could play both SA A sides and the European Rugby Super Cup sides.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119402387#Comment_119402387

There already is a Six Nations B and Six Nations C. Georgia more or less win the B one every comp.

Itxa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119404218#Comment_119404218

How did the South African sides finance prolonged periods in the northern hemisphere last year? If that’s possible then Argentinian squads are also in play but I believe setting up a satellite training ground or stadium in their adopted/country of origin might be the way to go. It would expand the game and reduce costs/pains of travel.

As for emerging countries like Spain, Portugal, Belgium they have a lot going in their favour if they can finance a professional squad. Relative competitiveness becomes less of an issue if they can pay their way and competitiveness will come with a globally renowned league which is shown on TV and time.

Sure, they will get beatings initially but once they feel their way into the League and learn the nuances of their opponents things will become a lot less unequal. if they can raise funds through support and those players see their future in it on the line they will perform to the standard needed.

A lot of it comes down to developing the grassroots and if there is a viable league with home support the youngsters will eventually come through.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119405292#Comment_119405292

I've no idea how SA finance the amount of travel they do, or even the travel they did under the old Super rugby tournament. i remember reading that their flights were supplied by the airlines in exchange for advertising but that might be 20 years ago now, at this stage.

https://www.rugbyeurope.eu/news/rugby-europe-super-cup-fixtures-2022/

Anyhow, for anyone interested, there's the list of fixture for the Rugby Super Cup. The competition runs from September to December, it shouldn't be beyond the URC to use the teams for A fixtures in Jan/Feb, imo.

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119404244#Comment_119404244

So what's the issue then?

Red Silurian

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119405670#Comment_119405670

Simple really... There's money in South Africa for rugby, always has been, always will be

Not sure what benefit A-Teams are to the game other than to annoy the All Ireland League clubs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119410005#Comment_119410005

Those teams are effectively siloed away from first tier countries. I know most people have no interest in how good Germany could be a rugby (for example) but it's just a niche thing to discuss over pints really.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119410026#Comment_119410026

can you explain more about the money in SA rugby? I thought loads of SA players moved to Europe due to the weakness of the rand, and the lower wages there?

I've no firm view on the merits of A-teams, tbh, the IRFU are trying to set up a A comp with SA sides though. I think we can do both.

Itxa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119410005#Comment_119410005

The issue is world rugby is a closed shop with zero growth in around thirty years bar Argentina causing a few upsets. I’m not saying relegation/promotion to the 6 Nations is the answer but opening up the invisible barriers a bit would do some good for the game.

Itxa

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119410026#Comment_119410026

Growth is an organic thing. You can create money where none existed previously by investing in growth. If money is the final mandate of League organisers then they are closed minded and missing the bigger picture. It’s little Ireland thinking.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119413211#Comment_119413211

I would go further and ask if the current model for rugby is working at all.

Of the Tier 1 countries, Scotland, Wales and arguably Australia and (unbelievably) New Zealand are going through crises.

The club game in England and France seems to be a loss-making escapade for billionaires, the professional game is dying on it's feet in Wales etc.

World Rugby and a few of its constituent unions are facing multi-million euro law-suits over concussions too.

On the back of that, imo, world rugby needs to find new markets and new competitors.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119413702#Comment_119413702

I'd agree with this, even in the countries where the game is holding its own or growing it's in decline at the level below full professional. Go onto any chat in any rugby country and people are complaining that where their club had 3 or 4 teams in the past, now they struggle to field one or two. That extends to crowds and funding too.

Rugby is looking at real headwinds from the concussion stuff and from competition with other sports and the amount of activities available to young people these days. Stuff like wading into the trans controversy needlessly and inelegantly just makes the situation worse.

WR have their work cut out for them to grow the game and even with the attention that the RWC brings every 4 years they haven't succeeded very well, except perhaps for Japan and Arg. Here in the US the league seems viable but it gives very little to the grassroots game as it's almost fully disconnected from the club game and they let the rule about limiting non US eligible players slide after just a few months. It's great for guys coming out of the Leinster academy who don't get picked up but not much good to anyone else.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119414015#Comment_119414015

The MLR, if it's a success, will inevitably establish pathways in the US/Canada for younger players but those pathways are going to get ever more specialised and remote from the club game, imo, same as here.

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119414787#Comment_119414787

I'd like to think so but evidence is not compelling and people I now who are connected to the game at a national level are not confident because of the nature of the MLR, dominated by 2 owners who are extremely wealthy and refuse to speak to each other. Absurd pissing contest underwritten by World Rugby. Ironically where things are genuinely exciting is in the women's game, where the club and college level is humming nicely and they don't have a pro league.

In the men's game there is talk about Glendale(?) joining a South American League...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416698#Comment_119416698

South American rugby is going surprising well atm, Chile beat the US to the RWC recently, which I'm sure you're aware of but others here mightn't be, so joining up in a pan-American competition might make sense for both the US and Canadian national sides and the MLR sides. I don't really follow the MLR that closely, but didn't Glendale opt out or go broke or something? Also, wasn't there meant to be an international Americas/Pacific comp at one stage?

Btw, for anyone with an interest, here's a cool clip from Chilean rugby.

https://twitter.com/TeamChile_COCH/status/1553826934429294593?s=20&t=xaS1mPP_-xqISbPkwO_0Jw

ersatz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119417086#Comment_119417086

Saw that Chile result, fantastic, though it does also indicate that the the US mens national team is in trouble. The US crowd was abysmal and the venue (in the US home game) was absolutely awful. But yes, the game in SA is coming along very well and there is a club competition involving a clubs from Chile, Argentina, Brazil, Colombia, Uruguay and Paraguay. The Chilean club is the basis for the team that just qualified for the WC for the first time, so its real strides. I believe there was a tour involving a few of those clubs going to Canada/US last year and Glendale (or a team from the club) played against them and are discussing the possibility of a team joining the competition. Its a round robin format so it can work by keeping costs down as teams come and play in the same place in each round. This seems very promising as it will bring a new audience to the comp and give US based players real international experience at the club level.