RTÉ journo given 15months for sexually assaulting woman as she slept

jill_valentine · 30-07-2022 2:43am

If a teenager in all their inexperience feels up another teenager(17) and they go from 1st to 4th base without verbal consent does that make them perpetrators of sexual assalt?

This is another false comparison.

Consent doesn't have to be verbal. You can signal consent any number of ways. But you can argue about how explicit it needs to be in another context, not this one - because there was no *possibility* of consent here. She wasn't conscious. He didn't misinterpret a signal - she was not capable of giving any. He knew that - he knew she could *not* consent, he didn't think she meant one thing when she meant another. She didn't mean anything - she wasn't conscious.

There was no possibility of "passion" or "desire" from her either - she wasn't conscious.

What he did was inarguably sexual assault. The reason ye keep having to come up with *completely different scenarios* to try to argue about is because you can't argue it wasn't. She wasn't conscious. The difference between sex and assault is consent and it's not in question he thought he had the latter.

That he didn't care that she was not conscious when he started helping himself whatever he wanted to do to her body is a crime, as it should be.

That it didn't occur to him it might be, even after the fact, is damning in itself.

30-07-2022 2:53am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406441#Comment_119406441

You're welcome.

And your question is irrelevant.

briangriffin · 30-07-2022 3:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406454#Comment_119406454

My question is very relevant you refusal to answer is extremely important to the nonsense you are spouting.

briangriffin · 30-07-2022 3:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406446#Comment_119406446

"Consent doesn't have to be verbal" So he didnt need verbal consent ok. She was asleep, he tried to wake her from her sleep by fondling her, because he believed they might have sex, she said no he immediately stopped they both fell back to sleep.

He didn't willfully think she's asleep nows my chance to cop a feel. The circumstances of the case matter.

but what if the teenager moves to quick and before the woman knows it she has to slap his hand away and say no not there.

The letter of the law says that is sexual assalt he has not consent so he should be jailed.

You literally said he thought he had consent. Because objectively given the circumstances of this case you yourself think that would be a reasonable assumption.

30-07-2022 3:18am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406460#Comment_119406460

What happens or does not happen between I and my sexual partners has no relevance to this thread, just as what happens between you and your wife has no relevance to this thread. Apart from that, your question is rude and intrusive and I am not obliged to answer it.

As for spouting nonsense? All I've "spouted" are facts. You just don't like them.

So I'll tell you what, like I said to that other poster earlier -> if you have any further questions or doubts about what consent is or what constitutes a sexual assault in this or any other case, then maybe you should refer them to the Director of Public Prosecutions.

Or sign up for a workshop on active consent. Many colleges have them now.

briangriffin · 30-07-2022 3:28am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406466#Comment_119406466

You asked the question i answered. I asked a simple question you did not answer. No is simple so il take it as a as a yes then.

You have referred to posters as having rapey amd creepy things to say. You refuse to acknowledge the severity of the sentence and particular circumstances of this case, a case which this country has never seen the like of before. The court of appeal will surely have a say, or should.

briangriffin · 30-07-2022 3:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406446#Comment_119406446

If he didn't care why did he stop when she said no? If what he did was sexual assalt if he had hit her on the head or shoulder to wake her up would that be common assalt because she didn't consent to that either because she was unconscious?

30-07-2022 4:00am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406471#Comment_119406471

I think you're mixing my posts up with someone else's here, as

(a) I never asked anyone about what goes on between them and their own partners,

(b) I never referred to anyone as rapey or creepy, or used that term, and finally

(c) I stated earlier in the thread, that a custodial sentence was harsh, considering his cooperation with the investigation, and that my preference would have been a generous donation to a charity of the victim's choice.

So you know, check your facts.

30-07-2022 4:07am

There is no IF about whether this was a sexual assault or not. It was a sexual assault.

It's been well established on thread that a person who is asleep cannot give consent.

And around and around we go...

walshb · 30-07-2022 5:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406358#Comment_119406358

Are you still on about this?

Ok: you originally brought this up in this thread.

it relates to Love Islands Jacque’s when aged 20 dating Gemma Owen when aged 16 (almost 17). There were folks complaining about this. I personally see no problem. Legal age consent UK is 16. No crime here once both consent.

now, we live in Ireland: 20 year old male dates 16 year old female. There is a potential problem, in that the legal age consent is 17 in Ireland. So statutory rape can rear its ugly head here.

if my 20 year old son was dating a 16 year old, I’d educate him on this, and advise him to wait until his GF is of legal age to consent.

21 year old male dates (and is sexually active with) 17 year old female in Ireland. I see 0 problem here. Once both consent. Nothing illegal. No crime.

and I certainly wound not label any 21 year old here as a nonce.

I have never said there is 0 problem (in Ireland) with 20 year olds being sexually active with 16 year olds.

I can’t be any clearer here, so there should be no confusion.

Ash.J.Williams · 30-07-2022 6:36am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406434#Comment_119406434

She was a stranger , you can’t do that to a stranger

Ash.J.Williams · 30-07-2022 6:37am

After the upgrade of boards did all the women leave ?

Cyrus · 30-07-2022 7:42am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406219#Comment_119406219

You have used it out of context each time you used it, there was no rape here so how can anyones opinions on what happened be ‘rapey’

anglesorangles · 30-07-2022 8:21am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406434#Comment_119406434

You have done it in a relationship where norms have been applied over time, so a useless point made. In your example of the teenagers they both appear to be awake , so another useless point made. The whataboutery on this thread is constant.

Faugheen · 30-07-2022 8:22am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406404#Comment_119406404

He believed she consented despite the law saying one can’t consent when they’re sleeping?

Thats a pathetic excuse. Ignorance is not a Defence.

I don’t believe for one second that he didn’t know you couldn’t have sexual activity with someone who is sleeping either. If he didn’t then he wasn’t paying any attention in his own job, because this has been covered politically for years.

anglesorangles · 30-07-2022 8:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406493#Comment_119406493

Someone else brought it up. Nobody called anyone a nonce. Statutory rape can rear its ugly head - a sick comment ,credibilty completly lost. Ive blocked you now.

Cyrus · 30-07-2022 8:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406614#Comment_119406614

If this case is the benchmark for jailing people for sexual assault then it’s a very low bar indeed and we can expect to see dozens of men and women jailed over the coming months.

if you think that’s a reasonable outcome fair enough.

anglesorangles · 30-07-2022 8:27am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406573#Comment_119406573

Good thing she woke up.

walshb · 30-07-2022 8:33am

Of course he bloody knew that you cannot have sexual relations with a person asleep.

The chap was trying to initiate/arouse/wake a woman who he had been consensually intimate with that evening. He made (at best) a clumsy decision, with no malice/terror. She didn’t approve, told him to stop, and he immediately did.

and still people are happy he went to court, was convicted and jailed.

The lack of thought here and lack of consideration to all the facts, and the the flat out “he sexually assaulted a sleeping woman, jail him” attitude stinks.

We know the act was wrong. It absolutely did not deserve to see it take on this type of reaction!

walshb · 30-07-2022 8:37am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406619#Comment_119406619

Will you go away. You’re now outraged over “rear its ugly head?” No idea how this is offending you. Yes, best to block. It’s clear you are insanely sensitive, and will take offence at the slightest thing.

2-3 days ago we were wishing each other a nice weekend?

Faugheen · 30-07-2022 8:39am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406620#Comment_119406620

He wasn’t jailed for just the act, though.

He admitted to doing what she said he did, but he pleaded not guilty. This is textbook sexual assault. It’s clearly specified in law that one cannot consent when sleeping. Despite admitting to this, he thought he didn’t break the law and wasted everybody’s time and most likely wasted taxpayers money by giving two fingers to the legal system by forcing everyone to go through a trial when the case was open and shut.

There clearly was no remorse. If he had said from the outset that this happened, he was very sorry to the complainant and that he understands the trauma of this to her and many women around the country who have had a similar experience but feel they can’t come forward, then he probably would have been spared a custodial sentence. He didn’t, though, he tried to argue he did nothing wrong at all, despite agreeing with her version of events that took place on the night in question.

So it’s not just the act itself, it’s the fact he wasted everyone’s time and had the arrogance to believe he’d get away with it. All of these are taken into consideration.

NSAman · 30-07-2022 8:41am

If this,is what happens now, I have many cases against women who woke me up by fondling me during a ONS while I was asleep.

do I peruse these now?

i feel used and degraded, it has affected me in ways that I cannot comprehend, despite these incidents happening years ago.

Must threaten herself with this also. Happens frequently, especially when she wants something .😀

walshb · 30-07-2022 8:44am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406637#Comment_119406637

Are you for real. A man charged with a crime that has clearly negative effects, and fights it by pleading not guilty because he didn’t believe it to be at all as serious as she and the court portrayed, was wasting everyone’s time?

just before you jump in: he did not admit to sexual assault. He told his side, and he was charged with sexual assault!

anglesorangles · 30-07-2022 8:46am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406644#Comment_119406644

The cases you have did you feel sexually assaulted it sounded like you were if you were unconscious and not consenting? Would the assailants admit to what they did like the man did in this case? If so its up to you but yes you could go to the gardai about them absolutely. It would be a right of yours to do so. Ive a feeling you were lying about how theyve affected you though , so unlikely to go the gardai.

Faugheen · 30-07-2022 8:56am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406650#Comment_119406650

He can believe all he wants. He agreed to her version of events - that he climbed on top of her and grabbing her breasts while she was sleeping - and denied that it was sexual assault.

He didn’t plead not guilty to the seriousness of the crime, he pleaded not guilty to a crime taking place at all, despite the law being very f*cking clear on this. So yes, he stuck two fingers up to the judicial system, wasted everyone’s time, and showed no remorse. Very simple, but for some reason you are still really confused by it.

How are we so many pages in and you’re still not getting this? Why are you so f*cking ignorant that you push back on clear, undeniable facts?

You say you only have a problem with the sentence but right here you’re saying that he is right to believe he did nothing wrong. What was his defence? “I sucked her tit or whatever earlier in the night and got a little horny while she was sleeping, so I just helped myself.”

Honestly, pick your battles. How you’re so determined to exonerate this guy is really f*cking weird.

He did it. He admitted to doing it but he denied that he broke the law. He was a stupid fool who was either very, very arrogant or very badly advised. Either way, he should have known he was going to be convicted for this and should have worked with his team to determine the course of action that would have minimal impact. Instead, he pleaded not guilty to sexual assault, despite agreeing that he helped himself while she was sleeping, and now has a 15 month prison sentence.

Nobody to blame but himself, and there is not one aspect of this where I feel sorry for him.

walshb · 30-07-2022 9:10am

Well, going my majority posts/posters on this thread, I’m in the company on many “weirdos” in thinking a jail sentence was way OTT. I can live with this!

Jequ0n · 30-07-2022 9:10am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119406621#Comment_119406621

You are now implying that he might have tried to rape her in her sleep. There is nothing to suggest he was trying to have sex with an incapacitated person. He woke her by initiating renewed foreplay, which is something almost everyone does. She didn’t like it, he stopped.