The Collapse in Home Ownership was Fine Gael Policy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395770#Comment_119395770

Wouldn't think so, but in fairness I would say the same of most politicians.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119395349#Comment_119395349

I find the only ones claiming we don't have a housing crisis are the ones that are on the ladder and protecting their own interests.

xxxxxxl

I see the usual fearless defence of Gov. Can any issue be brought up and actually agreed on rather than blind defence. Nothing to see here lessons learnt. all that. 🤔 When I came to Ireland you could get a house for 60k ish. Thats was having spent time in Dublin. So No idea what it was everywhere else.

donaghs

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397101#Comment_119397101

Who’s claiming this? More to point (person you replied to said why are SF so popular) What’s Sinn Féin’s magic plan to fix the housing crisis?

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397198#Comment_119397198

Judging by the Current Gov. There are plenty of 3bn to be found behind the couch cushions.

babyducklings1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397101#Comment_119397101

Don’t think it’s as black and white as that altogether. The house owners are aware of the problem and worried about their own kids/ grandkids/ relatives etc. Has come up in conversation a few times recently there’s a current of awareness but a kind of what can we do about it thing while recognising it’s a serious issue. Maybe it’s bury the head in the sand at least partially,

Snickers Man

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394198#Comment_119394198

The fact that so many people are still owning homes that they weren't able to pay for is a large part of the reason why there is such short supply, a dearth of affordable new mortgages and increasing power held by the very few banks that are still offering mortgages in Ireland today. It doesn't take an economic genius to work this out.

For historical reasons there is a great reluctance in this country to enforce evictions on people who have "bought" their own homes. Even if they have stopped paying for them before the full amount has been settled. Banks are reluctant to evict for fear of alienating the wider public and even if they try, the courts will often refuse to let them redeem property in lieu of a defaulted loan anyway.

Remind yourself of the case of the RTE power couple who just dug their heels in and refused to pay their mortgage because, well, they couldn't (Debt write-off: How Frank McNamara and Theresa Lowe returned to spotlight for wrong reasons - Independent.ie) The courts sided with the non-paying borrowers and against the lender. Hurray, you might think. Don't let these vulture funds screw honest Irish people like that. But it means we all have to pay higher interest rates to account for the higher risk that lenders have to take.

Interest rates charged by lenders generally reflect the relationship between risk and return. The more certain it is that a borrower will repay the full amount, the lower the interest rate. Secured assets such as houses, especially primary homes, offer the highest security because if the borrower doesn't pay back the lender can commandeer the asset as payment in kind.

In theory.

But if the courts instead say, "Er, no you can't repossess that because that's somebody's home" the "Security" of the house as collateral becomes meaningless. So that pushes up interest rates for everybody else.

Oh well, you might think, in a competitive environment, with banks fighting against each other for market share, interest rates will stay low because of competition between the banks. Well, yes. But even that can bring problems. Especially if banks make stupid mistakes.

Classic case in point was Tracker Mortgages. Some people seem to think the scandal is that people who had moved voluntarily off tracker mortgages weren't able to move back on to them again when they wanted. Or that people who had temporarily stopped paying their mortgage at tracker rates because of temporary money problems, were not allowed to return to them once they had got back on their feet.

No. That's not it.

The scandal with trackers is based on the fact that the dumb banks didn't build a catch into tracker contracts in the first place. Maybe they thought that the "terms and conditions" that applied would be sufficient to move borrowers to higher interest rates in the event of a default, temporary or permit, but again they weren't allowed to do that.

Getting a tracker mortgage was a bit like buying the first few seats on a Ryanair flight. If you get in early, you can get remarkably cheap flights but there IS a catch here. If you miss your flight, no refund. Also, if closer to the date of departure something crops up and you know you won't be able to go at that date and time: tough! The deal is buy early, buy cheaply. If you have to reschedule after all the cheap flights have gone you will have to pay a rebooking fee (usually more than the price of the original cheap flight) and you will only be able to book seats on your rescheduled flight at the rate for which they are then going. If it's close to take-off day they will probably not be cheap. That's the catch.

The Tracker Scandal was when courts said that the banks HAD to give people tracker mortgages even when it was loss-making for the banks to do so. No catch at all. It would be like telling Ryanair that ALL seats on a given flight have to be offered at the same dirt-cheap prices that the first few seats have traditionally been sold for. If that ever happens, you can be sure NO seats will be offered as cheaply as they are now.

The effects of the tracker "scandal" was that many banks, especially foreign ones, found they could not operate profitably in Ireland and so they are going. Now if you want a mortgage, you can talk to AIB or Bank of Ireland and, er, that's it. The others (Ulster bank, Danske Bank, Rabo Direct, etc have all gone or are going)

At the end of the day you don't have a cast-iron right to buy and own a house unless you can afford it. Same as with a Ferarri. Can't afford; can't have.

riclad

Central Bank rules are to protect the taxpayer, from future crashes, we can't function as an economy without banks, banks cannot be trusted to act in a logical safe manner, therefore rules were put in place , eg you can borrow 3 or 3.5 times salary plus you need a large deposit ,

The government regulator had to actually do his job as we can't afford to be bailing out the banks every 10 years

The problem is now we are left with not enough builders to build houses we need, the cost of everything is going up, wood, metal, bricks, etc so gen z is left paying crazy rents or living at home

And we have no control over inflation

Irish governments always encouraged house buying if you want people to have kids they need a place to live not a small in rathmines

If you want to buy anything you are competing with a couple who have a large deposit from their parents or a billion dollar corporation goid luck with that

Some smart Irish architect could design a self build unit eg 2 bed designed to use cheap materials maybe 700 sw ft one bathroom and post it on the Web

The government could encourage more self build projects

Of course in the meantime we are all facing rising inflation rising food costs due to the worsening global warming crisis

I can see no easy solution apart from. A recession that might slow diwn demand or maybe young people might decide to emigrate to a country that has houses for sale or rent at a reasonable price now that so many company's are allowing people to work from home

We have gone thru cycles since 2000 boom bust rising rents there are still people with mortgages that are larger than the value of the house

Look at America some people are moving to Mexico as its cheaper to iive there you can buy a house for 100k

Many ordinary working people in USA have no hope of ever buying a house in the state they live in they can't afford to retire as they have to pay rent as house prices have gone up 3 to 400 per cent in some areas

There's a crisis going on in China where people are leaving the houses they bought due to falling values or banks going out of business

Jim2007

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397191#Comment_119397191

In a democracy, why would you expect people not to defend the parties and government that they elected? The people that amuse me are the ones that show up with the idea that the parties and governments get elected by magic and that if the voters only knew/understood (choose which ever word you like) they would vote differently. That only serves as an attempt to justify an opinion/believe that is not widely held and nothing more.

I was involved in Irish political campaigns before Enda Kenny was elected to the Dail and I have been involved in Swiss politics for over three decades and I have no hesitation in saying Irish and Swiss voters are among the most sophisticated voters in the world! And this should not be surprising because both come from an environment where they are required to decide on strategy issues (constitutional) and tactical issues (national government). Popularism style politics do not in either country because even the dumbest voter is going to ask that difficult question - what is the long term impact of whatever you are trying to peddle. They may not realize why they are asking the question nor understand the answer, but you can count on them asking the question it’s how the are conditioned. And enough of them will understand the answer to stop you if they don’t like what they are hearing.

That is not to say that voters don’t have unrealistic expectations, the Irish want the housing crisis solved through home ownership and the Swiss want EU membership without the commitments. And both find and elected politicians that are willing to attempt to achieve their dreams. And the problems won’t get solved until the voters accept (they already realize) that their dreams can’t be achieved.

You can’t have a meaningful discussion if you start with the notion that the politicians in Ireland/Switzerland are somehow detached from the people who elect them.

qba73

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058256317/the-collapse-in-home-ownership-was-fine-gael-policy

I would not call it conspiracy theory. They follow WEF mantra: you will own nothing and you will be happy….

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397101#Comment_119397101

Nobody on this thread or other have claim ireland doesn’t have a housing crisis

Irelandsnumberone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397532#Comment_119397532

You blame everyone but the people who caused the crisis (FG and FF) so you may as well say we don't have one

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397191#Comment_119397191

Yes but we had jobs and the best option for most was to leave to England and America

No minimum wage etc

No future for the people who didn’t leave

Yeah it was great times alright!!!

if you read the thread the OP said they couldn’t buy a house in Dublin when it turns out they could if they wanted.

What the people of ireland learned all those years ago was to create a country that their children didn’t have to head off as soon as they turned 16 to work on sites and whatever other jobs they could pick up….my parents had to do that, but don’t worry about that you could buy a house for 60k in Dublin 🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397553#Comment_119397553

incorrect

I am looking for a solution, not sitting on the internet all day crying and whinging

the solution is supply

The problem now is parties like SF blocking houses because it is better for them for the housing crisis to continue

it is better for the government for the housing crisis to finish

Its not hard to understand

P.S the department of education is not a political party 👍

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397474#Comment_119397474

Excellent post 👍👍

Irelandsnumberone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397560#Comment_119397560

https://thisinterestsme.com/irish-politicians-objections/

Every Party objects to certain housing developments.

brokenangel

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397579#Comment_119397579

I know, I shared the link already with you on the other thread👍 The exact link you just shared

It’s still doesn’t change that it is better for SF for the entire country to be homeless, especially when supporters seem to have no problem with them blocking houses and keeping people homeless

As I said discussed on other thread, pointless going over again.

coolshannagh28

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058256317/the-collapse-in-home-ownership-was-fine-gael-policy

There was widespread discussion on this subject when the troika arrived and some consensus that our model of home ownership was flawed and exposed us to housing downturns ; as far as i am aware no official policy pronouncement was made but in the interim major policy and taxation decisions have been made which have enabled large,mainly US funds to gain a powerful position in the rental sector resulting in scarcity of supply and very high rents.

it may possible to justify this on the basis that risk has been outsourced and much needed investment flowed in when it was desperately needed but this must be countered by asking if this policy was actually sanctioned by the Irish people or foisted on us by govt.

Furze99

Fine Gael policy??? Total rubbish and I'm not particularly a FG voter.

Bit cynical

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119397942#Comment_119397942

How do investment companies limit rental supply? At worst, I would have thought, they have no impact, merely buying up existing stock but more likely the add to supply by funding new builds.

On the other hand are likely to force up purchase prices by out-bidding other buyers, but that is a different issue.

coolshannagh28

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119401429#Comment_119401429

By setting extreely high rents and using the option of leaving property vacant it is possible to create scarcity through unaffordability. Ireland is a tiny market and easy to control.

Brucie Bonus

The op is on the money.

We've had many years of FG making it more difficult for people to buy or find affordable rent.

The agenda is to invite in foreign and domestic investment and put more of the public in a position where they need state aid, then the government lines up the customers for them using tax payer money for 25 year leases.

It's a private profit tax payer ponzi scheme.

Like much of what FG and FF do, it may not be illegal but it's certainly immoral.

GSBellew

duplicate post

GSBellew

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119394083#Comment_119394083

Dromcondra, circa 1.2 km from the GPO?

How much are houses a comparable distance from the center of any capital city in the developed world?

Not apartments, semi-d's walking distance of the city center with a front and back garden.

Sad Professor

FG's housing policy has been a complete disaster. I agree with the OP that much of it was a consequence of deliberate policy decisions. At this stage I think they've given up on it and trying to turn housing into another health, i.e. an impossible to solve problem that the electorate won't blame them for.

Andrewf20

Interesting to see how immigration numbers tie in very closely to house prices (figures from 2016, see graph 6.3 if you scroll down). No doubt immigration often brings essential skills to here but it may be also added to the housing issues we are seeing today...

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/ep/p-cp7md/p7md/p7ri/