Neighbours sheep always in my garden??

asdfg87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411485#Comment_119411485

Some of the farmers might be rich like you and not need the said payment but the ones i know not viable without financial support.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411492#Comment_119411492

They do. The real truce is 3-4strands. The second strand up should be earthed.

Sonic the Shaghog

The payments will not be pulled if animals are breaking out do you know how much the department would spend freezing and recommencing payments if it was contingent on that? You'd need an entire fulltime unit

The best you can get that way if they break out and an accident happens and he tries to claim on the farm insurance, if an accessor comes out and deems the fencing and walls to be not be up to the scratch they can refuse to pay out but that's it

In fact ringing the department and telling them Mikey John's sheep keep breaking out you'll be told contact the authorities and they'll fall around the office pissing themselves laughing at you once you are off the phone

patsy_mccabe

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411508#Comment_119411508

I think you need to read his post again. " Well insulated ......." 😀

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411499#Comment_119411499

They won't lose a penny from these payments because a few sheep wandered into someone's garden.

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411620#Comment_119411620

You earth one of the lower strands. The idea being that when the sheep put there head through the wire the get a good wallop off the fence. Even use tying wire for this strand..

asdfg87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411604#Comment_119411604

I'm surprised the department think its perfectly ok for animals to trespass on non-farming property. I am in the process of plantion trees on a piece of good land. The farming neighbors are unhappy but the reason it is being planted is people would not either look after the land od the stock.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411673#Comment_119411673

I expect freezer the next best option, i expect if he brings two to the butcher he get back one ready for the oven.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411701#Comment_119411701

Theft is theft. If he has a butcher buddy and they are willing to do that, then sure he might as well start going around the country stealing sheep rather than taking the ones beside him. They are less likely to be caught if they steal random ones.

I imagine trying to keep good relations with neighbours in the countryside, no matter how difficult or one-sided it is, might be the better option here- sometimes it doesn’t matter who’s “right” - implications of the wrong decision made now could have bigger ramifications (pun intended) in the long run

Bass Reeves

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411704#Comment_119411704

No when you multiple strands on a fence you should earth one strand. Ideally the second from the bottom. This can often be hard as the bottom strand can become over grown.

You have to strain this strand separate to the other strands and have it completely independent of them. You drive an earth bar at one end or the middle even. and connect it to this single strand. This strand is not connected to the fencer at all

asdfg87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411724#Comment_119411724

They are on his property, its not theft.

L1011

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411743#Comment_119411743

You really don't understand the basics of law.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411743#Comment_119411743

What world do you live in?

redlough

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119410541#Comment_119410541

yes sheep are bastids to keep in but proper wire and they will have no choice. If only around a house I personally invested in horse wire from tornado all the way around house. Nothing is getting past that but also the kids can't get out so they are safe and secure.

I have no sheep in area but grew up with sheep and that's why I love a good fence, the kids are not so happy

asdfg87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411727#Comment_119411727

How can anyone have a good relationship with someone who has no regard for his property and family. thats a very weak propisition, i had a similar situation and i told the farmer, get them effin sheep out of here and they were gone the next day, he had a piece of land rented and the sheep were breaking into neighbor as there was no grass. I also broke the lease because of this, he was unhappy but the EA agreed with me. People like this need to be dealt with firmly.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411727#Comment_119411727

I see what ewe did there with your pun

asdfg87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411753#Comment_119411753

The world i live in is where people respect other peoples property, families and act accordingly, your obviously a farmer who thinks they can do as they please. The farmers i know would not tolerate that kinda rubbish.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411775#Comment_119411775

If you rented out property to a man to graze sheep on, you should have had it stock proof.

You wouldn't rent a house to a tenant and expect that tenant to have the house rewired if it turns out during the lease that it needs to be done.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411849#Comment_119411849

Untwist the knickers.

According to your logic if you park your car, are you old enough to drive?, on my property without my consent I own it 😂

runawaybishop

Long term, you need to fence along the ditch between yourself and next door and put a hedge in. Even if that farmer copped on and fenced his wandering sheep that wouldn't help you if any other animals got loose, they could still come in and wreck your garden.

Don't chase them out into the road, whatever you do. You'd be liable then in case of any accidents.

asdfg87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411854#Comment_119411854

It was stock proof and the contract said he was to check and maintain. Basically they broke out as they had eaten all the grass and needed food.

I expect like me you know little about farming as a little different to wiring a house which i know plenty about.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411859#Comment_119411859

I never said i owned it, i said i would use it which i expect i could do with the car if i had the keys, is it a nice car as i will send you my eircode.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411923#Comment_119411923

You have a non-traditional definition of stock-proof.

Maybe stick to wiring houses

asdfg87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411964#Comment_119411964

What you need yo focus on is the word "Responsible" we had a contract he broke it and gone.

I will do as i please, next project is planting trees.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411923#Comment_119411923

You're saying to bring stock to a butchers and have them killed, because they're trespassing on someone else's land it's not theft.

You quite clearly haven't got a notion.

asdfg87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411997#Comment_119411997

Thats what your saying, i am saying you keep your stock where they should be. If they are regular visitors to my property i will deal with it in whatever way is appropriate at the time.

I remember hearing a story a couple of years ago where a farmer had a few neighbors pestered renting land without proper fencing. One even a few of them gathered the sheep as it was not huge number, brought them a few km and let them into a forest. Someone after a week or so told him there was sheep in a forest. Fallowing week new fence.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411816#Comment_119411816

In fairness I did allewed to it so it wasn’t hard to spot- you can’t really be congratulated on your eyesight I’m afraid - it may still be baaaaaad.

ForestFire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119411859#Comment_119411859

Almost.....

https://youtu.be/ezUmZGKhrUA

If I was the OP I would warn the farmer about further action and reporting if it continues, either by a personal letter or Solicitors letter as suggested.

Its the farmer's responsibility to keep his sheep contained

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412337#Comment_119412337

You shouldn't be reading too much out of that particular case and applying it generally. It would be a mistake to extrapolate it to think that you can do what you like to anything on your property. That was more of a case of defending his property and self defense than trespass. Because the man was threatened and assaulted, the court concluded he used reasonable force. Your duty of care towards trespassers is (at minimum) to not intentionally injure them or their property. If the man had not been threatened and assaulted, he would have been found guilty. Regardless of how you think things should work.

The owner is indeed liable for their stock. That is not in dispute. But the garden owner cannot steal, hurt or kill them just for entering into their garden.

asdfg87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412389#Comment_119412389

If the owner was looking after his stock the problem not arise, i think the farmer needs to show respect for the property and the owner and his children cannot use the garden. This is ongoing according to the OP and is not proper, then intellegent people think its ok. its not.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412506#Comment_119412506

If it’s causing ongoing problems for the OP, then the simple solution is for the OP to be the bigger person, put up an animal proof fence and get on with their life. End. Of. Story.

the_pen_turner

print out a list of plant that are poisinous to sheep and drop it down to the farmer along with a pics of those plants in your garden .

asdfg87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412568#Comment_119412568

Absolutely not the person that causes the problem is responsible for this one. Farmers need to take responsibility for their stock.

The farmer needs to put up a stock-proof fence to stop his animals getting on public road, end of Problem...

Silverdream

Trying to hold sheep that have gotten the taste of sweet lawn grass is a disaster, they are always looking to get back to the sweet nibble. As for who should fence, who knows. It could have been that the house owner was the one to provide stock proof fencing as part of the sale of the original site. Or it could be that the farmer is too broke to afford the cost of fencing. My own thinking is that if he can't or won't afford to fence then he certainly can't afford the cost of them wreaking a lawn. You can spend thousands on plants, trees and flowers for a lawn which would far outweigh the value of the sheep.

Times have certainly changed a lot and what was tolerated years ago would no longer be especially when you consider the cost of the property with the owner probably having to service a big Mortgage, they'd be very pissed off with the situation

gameoverdude

Free wool and mutton.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412635#Comment_119412635

I agree with all you are saying. However, if I was in the OPs position, I’d put up a fence and be done with it. The farmer obviously isn’t going to do the decent thing, so to save a lot of stress, I’d do it myself and move on.

gameoverdude

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412673#Comment_119412673

The neighbour good buy a dog

micah537

Since farmers can be extremely trigger happy when dogs roam on their land (which is understandable), what happens in OPs case if they have own a dog who decides he wants some mutton?

Would OPs dog be in the wrong since the sheep shouldn't be in the garden? Just curious and no way would I let my dog attack them.

ForestFire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412389#Comment_119412389

Agree, but thants why I started the post with....almost....DTrump (bit of tough in cheek comment), but there are other action OP can take in reporting uncontrolled livestock, or on damage/safety grounds.

In General ....

If there is a stray dog on a framers land, what reasonable action are they allowed to take?

If this dog was threatening livestock or already attacking livestock, what reasonable action is the famer allowed?

Would you ask the farmer to make his land dog proof to solve the issue?

What action is allowed is an unrestrained/unsupervised dog is in a public place?

What action is allowed if this dog was threatening people?

What action would be allowed if dog was unsupervised in your back or front garden, or in housing estate common areas, on a regular occasion, dispite contacting owner?

Would you not call the dog warden if the owner kept leaving there dog loose in your garden, or in public places? Or would you be expected to gaurd you front garden and other from such dogs, to stay friendly with unfriendly neighbors?

Why is it any different to sheep, causing damaged, deficating in your garden, and potentially a treat to young children, playing outside (accidentally or health)?

Op has already contacted farmer to raise the issue, next steps could be one last warning, but then contact relevant authorities about the problem, or send solicitor letter.

I don't see any reason to be nice to this neighbour, as they are already ignoring the OPs valid concerns, is there another reason to be nice at this stage?

asdfg87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412646#Comment_119412646

From what i gather the animals are originally going to the public road. It may be possible that the County Council are responsible which i expect the OP can explore. It is possible the council will fence the land for ther farmer to stop animals getting to road?

OP are you enjoying this? well i am....

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412747#Comment_119412747

Dogs are covered by the Control of Dogs Act. You can shoot a dog if it is bothering your livestock, but not if it is running across a field of barley. It is to do with ability to protect vulnerable animals against dog attack. I haven't looked at it in a while, but from memory, the Control of Dogs Act doesn't contain any section pertaining to a licence to butcher any sheep that wander into your garden. The Control of Dogs Act doesn't let me shoot a neighbour's cat either. It only appears to apply to dogs. Which is actually quite convenient, given its title.

If you are worried about being savaged by a sheep that had wandered into your garden, be it alive or dead, then you could act in "self defense" and shoot it. But if it came down to it, you might have to convince a Court that that was reasonable use of force.

asdfg87

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412673#Comment_119412673

Should the OP put up a fence to stop farmers animals coming on to road ot between the two houses as animals coming in driveway to access the garden. I expect there is more happening here than we know, like why is the neighbor happy with this.

OP there has being abit of a chat on this, any comments?

ForestFire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412885#Comment_119412885

Are you deliberately ignoring that I said that post was tounge in cheek and not serious?

I outlining other reasonable actions the OP could take, along with the dog examples to show who should be responsible for the issue here.....but you ignored all of these, i.e damage, health (feases), livestock control laws.

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412739#Comment_119412739

If the OP has a dog then they would be responsible for keeping that dog in. If sheep can get in, a dog can get out. In the extremely unlikely scenario where sheep wander into a garden where a regular dog is happily playing around, and the dog attacks them but doesn't leave your property, then technically it would not come under the Control of Dogs Act. But for practical reasons, if you have a dog that kills or injures like that, they will do it again once they have tasted the blood. So if you think you have come up with a "genius" idea, then you might find out it backfires.

Still stihl waters 3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412673#Comment_119412673

No way I'd give the prick the satisfaction, by the time he'd gather and find them all he'd be below at the co op first thing the morning after for stakes and fencing

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412913#Comment_119412913

The only one that matters is that the owner is be default responsible for their animals. Anything after that comes in under damages. Sheep eating a bit of grass in a garden isn't going to do it any harm. But the house owner could see dollar signs and run to their solicitor if they want.

There is actually a nuance which I can't remember exactly for cattle (which might also be interpreted to include sheep depending on the act). There is a difference between the animal coming onto your property via a neighbouring field etc. and coming in from the public road.

Lime Tree Farm

A dead sheep won't wander in - Donald!

Leave them alone, and they'll come home, wagging their tails behind them.

paddysdream

These threads seem to descend into the same old same old anytime someone posts on here regarding fences ,stock straying etc .

Not interested in getting into a tit for tat discussion on this subject .

What does amuse me is the amount of people who give advice with the certainty of an Oracle .

For a start I keep sheep (a fair bit in excess of the national flock average but less than a few years ago ) .I have had sheep break out on numerous occasions over the years ,at times onto the road and at other times onto farmland or gardens etc .I have had sheep break into corn crops , sheep break into field of beet just before harvesting ,sheep break into neighbours meadow and grazing fields, sheep break into neighbours garden ,sheep on the road for which I had to claim on my insurance (1k) for damage done to the vehicle after they managed to drive though 500 freshly weaned ewes at 3 miles an hour .I have always immediately fenced anywhere sheep got out ,asked what damage if any was done and informed the person that if they had an expense to please let me know and I would notify my insurance company .Not much point in paying insurance if you are not prepared to use it .On no occasion has my premium risen due to a claim and a couple were heading for 5 figure sums .

On the other hand I have had cattle and sheep along with a horse or two break in here both into fields and into my garden .I just ring the owner and let them know .I have never had a constant problem ie in every case both with myself and my neighbours the issue is rectified asap .

The idea that I would fence to keep out my neighbours stock or that I would expect them to fence out mine is ridiculous in the extreme .Last winter had some ewes grazing on a 90 acre take of green cover which has 7 houses along the bounds along with some less than exciting hedges .Before a sheep was put on it I fenced the entire bounds with polywire and plactic stakes as well as using a few timber ones around the houses .Took a little time and effort but good fences make good neighbours (and I wanted to make sure and get back this year !)

As regards the dog bit have had 2 serious dog problems in the last 10 years along with the usual sporadic issues you get at times when grazing away from home .In neither case was compensation forthcoming due to various reasons despite prolonged efforts .Unknown dogs are now shot on sight here and have shot dogs for neighbours when asked .I am well aware at this stage of the ins and outs of the law on dogs and stock worrying .

All the above said I have never sent a letter ,solicitors or otherwise , or even contemplated court ,legal proceedings etc .Have always reported any thing like dog attacks to the Gardai and followed up on it .they have always taken an interest and have called to people to make them aware of their dog wandering and that it will be shot if seen again .Usually does the trick I find .

Most stuff like this is easily sorted in the beginning if people are reasonable and take responsibility .Where I live and farm has seen a lot of new houses over the last 20 years (no sites sold here but Eamonn Ryan might force me to part with some yet !) and it has changed the nature of things a bit .Almost impossible to move either cattle or sheep on the road between houses and traffic plus lack of help .

Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412941#Comment_119412941

There was some famous quote from an (I think) English politician who described another politician's attack on him as like being "savaged by a dead sheep"

ForestFire

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119412928#Comment_119412928

It's not about dollar signs, it about making the farmer aware of his responsibility, which he is currently ignoring, and sometimes money, or potential loss of money, makes people sit up and see sense.(also this was just 1 possible action)

Also another action that is suggested, is simply to report these loose sheep to the authorities, and leave the other stuff.

My issue is with some posters saying the OP should fence their garden, buts it's the famer that should control their sheep, which they are refusing to do.

vwcorrado

Yes are breaking out onto the road first then into my neighbours (who has no gate) and then across the ditch into me.

If my neighbour next door had the sheep then fair enough putting up a fence between me and him..But putting one up for a so called farmer three fields down Is crazy.