Most civilized/progressive countries/cultures?

Sugar_Rush

Relative to politics as obviously national policy is largely responsible for societal facilitation and progression.

Most would agree it's the US, closely followed by the UK.

Technically the UK colonized the US but it's also important to note that cultures (or more specifically genotypes) absorbed into the US such as hispanic, african, chinese etc don't seem to adapt to US'ism as readily as Caucasian.

Fair assessment?

Or lack of cultural integration has been considered by some to be more socio-economic relevant.... which may or may not be the case.

Question being, contemporarily, most civilized and progressive countries and cultures in your opinion and why?

Any honorable mentions? (I do, but I'll wait my turn.....).

Sam Russell

How can the USA be considered civilised or progressive?

They have more guns than people, and they use them to shoot each other - there are regular instances of multiple deaths and injuries from nutters going on a spree killing fellow workers, kids, or just randomly. How is that anything but barbaric?

The difference between the wealthiest 1% and the rest is obscene. Those who are very wealthy, use their wealth to manipulate the political system to protect and increase their wealth at the expense of the bottom 50%.

They have a political system that is on the verge of collapse, with the assault on the Capitol orchestrated by the sitting President who had just been voted out of office - an attempted coup. It failed but only narrowly.

The SCOTUS is now under the complete control of the (very) right wing party - the Republicans, who look as if they might consolidate their position by taking control of both the Senate and House. With them controlling the three arms of Government, they can gerrymander the vote to win the President, and can then do as they like - short of civil war.

I can only assume you are trolling proposing the USA as in anyway civilised, or progressive. And that is before one considers access to voting, health care, justice, decent wages - only available to the wealthy or those of the 'correct' ethnicity.

Nody

US is very far down the list after the abortion ban and that's before we talk about things such as making poor quarters in cities next to toxic industries etc. which is policy still. Your best bet would probably be something like Norway, Finland or Netherlands if you look at the Western world, could see other less known countries as well in Asia etc. to fit the bill.

sydthebeat

The US is a shithole

Most civilized : Singapore, followed by Japan. Denmark Norway Finland New Zealand

Next tier UK and Canada Australia

That's it

A loose connection between civilization and justice code: don't try to humor Singaporean police.

Sam Russell

I think the Suisse would be high on the list.

One good thing about Switzerland in their flag is big plus :)

Sugar_Rush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119415838#Comment_119415838

I read a good example of the rest of the worlds attitude to the US.

1) a guaranteed protest outside a government building in relation to policy

2) a guaranteed queue outside their embassy looking for a visa.

I absolutely agree on all points, but my point was more specifically in relation to progressive culture and historically America has been considered the country you go to if you want to "make it".

It facilitates progression, or so goes its reputation....

Sugar_Rush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119415901#Comment_119415901

Whilst the UK colonized America;

The Netherlands were actually the first to do so (as I'm sure we're all versed upon).

I sometimes muse on what America would look like today if the UK hadn't successfully assumed those particular set of reigns.

Perhaps most of the "first world" would be dutch speaking in contrast to english speaking?

But as the Netherlands is an infinitely nicer place to live than the UK, one would assume the US wouldn't have become such a heinous infrastructural nightmare.

Sam Russell

The USA would have revolted against Dutch or British or French colonial powers.

The nature of North America is one where frontiersmen would demand freedom and use their essential firearms to get it - and keep it. The vastness of the territory ensures that. Canada is not under either French or British control.

The only way Britain could have controlled the US colonies would be to move the centre of control from London to the colonies. It could have happened but for a mad King.

kravmaga

USA is a sh1tshow atm, was over in Chicago and Boston recently, a very divided society, not bad to visit but to live there, No way.

kravmaga

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416015#Comment_119416015

Got to agree with you on Singapore, number 1 in my book.

Shiok

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416015#Comment_119416015

The rhetoric that you can’t look sideways in Singapore is widely exaggerated. 

On one occasion my toddler hurdled a wrapper out of her stroller and it comically landed near the feet of a police officer. A what-are-the-chances moment not only because the fines associated with littering are well known but also because it’s typical to go months and months without seeing any police presence at all. He picked it up for me with a smile and went off to put it in a nearby bin, while his colleague started chatting to her about her teddy and then off we went. Obviously, no one would expect a child that young to be blamed for littering but it was hardly the scolding for me that many outside Singapore somehow believe would have occurred. On another occasion, knowing well I shouldn’t be parked there, I was caught in a no-set-down area and the officer just extremely politely asked me to move along, with a reminder of what the sign meant.

In contrast, on recent trip home in Dublin, a guard shouted (not spoke, shouted) at me for what felt like 2 uninterrupted minutes over a similar instance – waiting in an area that was no-set down but wasn’t any causing immediate traffic blockage or danger. Finally when he stopped for air, I managed a very calm – ‘I understand, I apologise, I will move’ and asked was it necessary to shout – which really sent him over the edge and my name & address was recorded in his little black book. Can’t imagine he would have picked up someone’s rubbish for them.

Society functions exceptionally well here and I would be the first to list all the benefits that brings but it would be remiss not to call out some of the grey areas where it needs work to be truly progressive - same-sex relationships are not recognised and remain illegal, migrant workers live in poor conditions and are generally regarded as second-class humans and local media feels curtailed. 

Hermy

There's also the death penalty and corporal punishment - not the actions of a civilised society in my own view.

ThreeGreens

The world Freedom Index might help give some insight into this.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/freedom-index-by-country

Ireland does quite well by that standard.

Brussels Sprout

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119416015#Comment_119416015

Singapore & Japan should be automatically excluded due to their criminal justice systems. Some people may be fans of the death penalty but this thread is specifically about "progressive" countries and the death penalty is the very antithesis of that (not to mention that caning is still carried out by Singapore).

Singapore has other issues beyond that. It's basically been a 1-party state since independence and currently that party has 83 seats in parliament compared to the official opposition's 11 seats - that is not the sign of a healthy and flourishing democracy. Freedom House (who rank countries based on their citizen's access to political rights & civil liberties) rank Singapore as merely "Partly Free" with a score of 47. That places it alongside Honduras and The Gambia and roughly in the middle of the pack.

Japan has an impressive score of 96 but it's the usual suspects at the top: Finland, Norway & Sweden all scoring 100. New Zealand's in 4th with 99, Canada in fifth with 98 and Ireland in joint sixth with 97 (along with Denmark, Netherlands, Luxembourg & Uruguay).

https://freedomhouse.org/countries/freedom-world/scores?sort=desc&order=Total%20Score%20and%20Status

In terms of Freedom of the Press, Reporters without borders rank Singapore at an abysmal 139th in the world (albeit up from an even worse 151st a few years ago). Japan is ranked 71st.

The top 10 are:

1. Norway
2. Denmark
3. Sweden
4. Estonia
5. Finland
6. Ireland
7. Portugal
8. Costa Rica
9. Lithuania
10. Liechtenstein

https://rsf.org/en/index

OP it's pretty boring and standard but the answer to your question is basically the Scandinavian countries. Are they perfect? No, of course not but when you compare them to the rest of the world they consistently stack up well across a wide range of areas indicating "progression".

Sugar_Rush

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119497385#Comment_119497385

Great post.

Scandinavian countries.

I'm a believer that politics is an extension of in a sense, "personal philosophy".

Curious what underwrites the "personal philosophy" of the likes of say, Norway?

y0ssar1an22

Singapore must be up there cos they have severe repercussions for people who break the law, hence massively low crime.

But really, it depends how you want to define it in the 1st place

Montage of Feck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119417932#Comment_119417932

But it isn't fair for decent civilized people to have their lives being negatively affected by willful scumbags.

y0ssar1an22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119498528#Comment_119498528

Eh, yes it is. And don't call them willful scumbags, that's derogatory.

Hermy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119498528#Comment_119498528

Life isn't fair and the death penalty does nothing to address that.

But in a civilized society criminality can and should be dealt with without resorting to draconian measures.

Tonesjones

Most progressive- probably the United States

Least Progressive- Most of the middle East countries and Italy

AckwelFoley

Any metric one likes to choose ireland ranks up there in many international lists.

Democracy, freedom quality of life.

Despite the De bankers, de corruption and Irish peoples inherent belief that anywhere else is always better, Ireland is a great country to be from and live in

The US, while it looks nice on the TV, there's a massive amount of inquality particularly in the southern states. But even in more affluent states in New England, its always in my opinion a shame to see 70 year old cleaning tables in Duncan Doughnuts in order to pay their taxes on their house

pixelburp

Japan has a low crime rate because apparently lot of offences are ignored or brushed off I believe, tourists encouraged not to report small stuff; while their prosecution rates are extremely high, helped by a system that will only prosecute if there's overwhelming evidence of guilt. Thus the high conviction rate, higher even than despotic countries. God knows where the Yakuza figure in this system.

Which of course means you have a judicial system that blithely assumes the police will only give them legitimate, nailed down cases - even in cases where innocence is evident. This video mentions one such case where the judge passed sentence, even knowing the man's innocence; the state still pursuing conviction even after 40 years and the man's overturned conviction.

https://youtu.be/IRn4xzaugbk

Glib answer but no country is perfect, and there are stories behind every ostensibly impressive statistic. Especially those relating to crime and punishment.

Brussels Sprout

Just because a country has low crime does not make it civilized. The safest country I was ever in was Rwanda - that's because it's basically a police state with armed soldiers and police everywhere. The locals are terrified to fall foul of the authorities. That's neither civilised nor progressive though.

Strumms

I’ve been to Denmark….Copenhagen and it’s surrounding towns a few times and never felt in anyway unsafe.

quite a responsible and visible police presence.

Due to increased levels of Middle Eastern / islamic immigration into Denmark, Islamic terrorist threats and plots have increased too but the Danish police and especially their intelligence have managed to proactively thwart several attempted attacks and arrest people at the planning stages.

I found the Danes lovely people… one in particular on the couple of work trips made us beyond welcome and helpful in every aspect of experiencing their culture…

had a lovely safe, friendly, vibrant and cared for environment to the city.

AckwelFoley

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119501957#Comment_119501957

I lived in Herning which is in Jylland. I remember going for a pint with a guy from Wales that just landed the week before. He fell asleep after a night out on a bench in the middle of the pedestrianised street right in the centre of town. His hat fell off during the night. When he woke up there was quite a bit of money thrown into his cap. Wouldn't happen in other city centres!